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GM service bulletin about code p1870
Posted by NJBOB on 02/28/2006
COLLINGSWOOD, NEW JERSEY -- This GM service bulliten might apply to your vehicle:

TSB # 01-07-30-023A
Harsh 1-2 Upshift, SES, MIL, or CEL Illuminated, DTC P1870 Set (Replace Valve Body)
1996 Buick Roadmaster
1996 Cadillac Fleetwood
1999-2000 Cadillac Escalade
1996-2000 Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette
1996-2000 Pontiac Firebird
1996-2000 Chevrolet and GMC Light Duty Truck Models
1996-2000 Oldsmobile Bravada
with 4L60-E Automatic Transmission (RPO M30)
Built Prior to January 15, 1999 (Julian Date 9015)
This bulletin is being revised to update the Parts Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-07-30-023 (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).
Condition
Some customers may comment on a harsh 1-2 upshift and the Check Engine Light or Service Engine Soon indicator is illuminated.
Diagnosis
Typically, these vehicles will have been driven more than 32,000 km (20,000 mi) before this condition occurs.
The scan tool may show a DTC P1870 set as a history code.
A harsh 1-2 shift or DTC P1870, caused by wear in the control valve body, may be difficult to duplicate when the transmission temperature is below 93°C (200°F).
Cause
The condition may be due to wear in the control valve body. This wear occurs in the bore that contains the TCC isolator and regulator valves, and results in poor, or no, TCC apply.

Important
DTC P1870 is a type B code. The conditions for setting the P1870 DTC must occur on TWO CONSECUTIVE TRIPS (ignition cycles, with a drive cycle) before setting a P1870 history code.
When the conditions for setting DTC P1870 are met (first trip), the PCM commands maximum line pressure and harsh 1-2 shifts are the result.
This may result in a harsh 1-2 shift with no history code if the conditions for setting the DTC required for the second trip are not met, on two consecutive trips (Ignition cycles, with a drive cycle).
When the conditions for setting the DTC are met, on the second consecutive trip, a DTC P1870 is stored as a history code.
When the P1870 code is stored, the PCM will turn on the Service Engine Soon (SES), Check Engine Light (CEL), or Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL).
Correction
Install a control valve body with the revised TCC regulator and isolator valves. These valves are used in all transmissions produced after January 15, 1999 (Julian Date 9015), and all of the service parts currently available through GMSPO contain revised TCC regulator and isolator valves.

Important
If all of the following conditions are true, it is not necessary to rebuild the transmission or to replace additional transmission components beyond the control valve body.
Transmission operation is normal before the transmission reaches operating temperature, or before DTC P1870 is set (no slips, flares, or missing gears).
The torque converter is not blue or overheated.
The transmission fluid is not burned or has no burned odor.
The transmission fluid pan contains no abnormal debris (clutch material, bronze, brass, or metal fragments


     
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LS1 Engine "Piston Slap Defect Scandal"
Posted by Retirednak on 04/17/2002
I made the mistake of buying a new 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 4x4 Z71 Extended Cab truck from Tony Chevrolet of Anchorage. Within 1500 miles I noticed an engine noise and took it to our local dealers service dept in my home town of Wasilla where Tony Chevrolet also happens to have another dealership. I was told the noise was normal and all the new LS1 engines made this noise. I took them at their word because I had always been treated right at this dealership. This truck has been a pure lemon from day 1 with many other numerous problems including a drive train vibration that is still present, with new problems almost monthly. Around 8-2001 I found out a large number of LS1 powered cars and trucks 4.7,5.3,6.0,8.1 Liter engines suffer from a design defect called "Piston Slap". The Firebirds,Camaro and yes, even the Vette motors suffers from this defect. GM has numerous TSB stating there is nothing to worry about, this is just a normal noise your engine makes. If it's normal, why don't all the LS1 engines sound this way? We tried to use the BBB autoline that the GM 800 number recommended and figured we had a open and shut case since the truck had been to the dealership the required amount of times to be considered a lemon. Boy were we wrong. GM has the BBB autoline in their back pocket, why else would they recommend using the program? I have 23000 miles on my truck, you can lay down under the oil pan and listen to the knocking noise coming from above the oil pan. My truck pings on very small hills without a load and it doesn't make a difference what gas is used. A person can leave the engine idling and walk around the front of the truck and hear a tapping noise. But that's normal also! If your thinking about buying a new or low mileage GM car or truck don't! Are you willing to take a chance on your hard earned money? GM will not back up the basic 3 yr 36 K mile warranty and it won't do you a bit of good if they try to sell you a warranty if your buying used. If you happen to own a GM vehicle, next time you change your oil, take a sample and send it into an independent company who does oil analysis and have your oil checked to see if it's clean or dirty. Don't depend on GM to tell you the truth about their oil analysis. If your oil is showing normal wear you got lucky and shouldn't have anything to worry about. If your sample shows abnormal wear it's time to document the findings and get ready for an uphill battle with GM. I'm not a GM basher, I've owned 7 GM vehicles and have been proud to own them. They have been mostly trouble free and the service dept's have always treated me very well. With this Silverado, I've been lied to, cheated and defrauded. I was told GM had a fix for this "customer concern". They would either replace the pistons with the "updated pistons" or have a new engine installed. Now I'm told they will do neither, because there is not a problem. My independent oil analysis tells a different story. I did call GM's 800 Customer service line today 4-17-02 to update our case file and let them know the knocking and pinging is getting worse. I was again told that GM is working on another fix for the "customer concern" issue and they would let us know when they are ready to address the issue. GM has great bunch of hard working employees who are forced to lie about this defect or are told to say nothing at all. If you want to help fight for your rights and have your GM vehicle fixed, take a look at this website link below and it also has links to other sites who are fighting the same cause. There is also a number of the V6 engines used in GM cars that suffer from Piston Slap Defect". The best thing you can do is educate yourself about this Defect. I'm almost sure this will turn into a Class Action Lawsuit/ Scandal before everything is said and done. Remember how GM handled the gas tank defect a numbers of years ago to save a few bucks? Will I buy another GM vehicle? NO! I've persuaded 2 people not to buy new GM pickups, all I had to do was let them listen to my engine. That's at least $60K GM doesn't get a profit from. Hey GM! how many other owners do you think are doing the same thing?
     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2002-04-17:
I forgot to post the website, it's http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html
Posted by debbie.haynes on 2004-02-09:
GM Chevrolet Silverado Truck Piston Slap. I am worried about this problem. Reading any reviews available. I have retired after many years and do not have funds to repair truck.
Noel H. Haynes
debbie.haynes@verizon.net
Posted by christmace on 2004-03-23:
Your concerns are the same as we have been fighting for the last 2 yrs. We have a 2002 Silverado 8.1 Liter, Alison Trans. We have the Piston Slap noise and also a noise on cold startups coming from the Transmission. I have called the GM 800 on 3 diff. occassions. I have had the truck into 2 diff. dealerships both denying any noise at all at first. They gave me a tech bulletin on 7/28/03 stating that it was Piston Slap noise that is one problem. It sounds like a diesel engine when it is not. Then the other noise we have on first cold startups we were told was the Torque converter draining and air getting into the pump. Both of these problems according to GM "Are normal characteristics of this truck". Normal til the warranty goes out. I was working a deal to get an extended warranty for the Trans and then they told me I would have to bring it back one more time to verify the Piston Slap Noise. I argued with them that they had already diagnosed the Piston Slap and gave me the bulletin on it. I am so frustrated. This has cost me time and money to take off from work. They kept denying they even heard a noise. I dropped the truck off one evening and kept the keys and then went back over the next morning and started the truck, so they could hear the noise and not deny it. I have been a GM person all my life. I was close to purchasing a new Buick this time last year. Based on the service at the dealerships or I should say lack of service and the unwillingness of GM to help us we are going to trade the piece of Junk in on something but it won't be GM. We love the truck style and everything about it but it seems from day one we have had nothing but problems that don't get fixed. The best they can do is give us the valuguard treatment that is free under warranty and then they screw that up and don't do a half way decent job. Very frustrated and thinking about taking this to 7 on your side for consumer help just to let consumers out there know that GM doesn't believe in standing behind their products or provide service. We even tapped the noise on a CD and took it to the dealership so they wouldn't think we were nuts. They heard the noise on the CD but "they cannot do anything until they hear it first hand" Do I enjoy taking time off work to put my $40k truck in the shop? Anyone have any other ideas. I read that GM is secretly buying back some vehicles with the noise problems but I can't get past the 800 service rep. Anyone know who else to call. Does the lemon law really work? Is it worth envoking the Lemon Law? I definetly got a sour lemon.
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GM Acknowledges
Posted by on 03/07/2002
RICHARDSON, TEXAS -- My wife purchased the first new car she ever purchased in 1998. She chose to buy an Oldsmobile Cutlass with the V6 engine. In the first 36,000 miles, her Cutlass has been to the dealership about a dozen times, the ABS system has failed twice, the engine control computer failed, the radio stopped working, the trim fell off the back of the trunk, the right rear taillight filled with water, the gas gauge has been broken forever and the seatbelt is broken. In addition, it needed new brake pads, at 20,000 miles.

At slightly over three years and 40,000 miles the engine has a blown intake manifold gasket. I went to the dealership, where I have established a bit of a relationship with one of the mechanics. I asked him, “How long would you expect the intake manifold gasket to last on the average car?” He said, “between 80,000 and 100,000 miles” and then asked me “Why?” I told him that the intake manifold gasket on my wife’s Cutlass with the 3100 V6 engine just blew at 40,000. He paused, reflected for a moment as he looked at the ceiling and then said “that doesn’t surprise me, they run that engine pretty hot.” My translation --- that engine’s a piece of crap!

After sending a letter to Oldsmobile, I got a call from customer relations telling me that they would look into my situation and “see if they could do anything to help me.” They took my VIN and called me back several days later. They told me they had researched the history of my vehicle and that there was nothing they could do because the kind of trouble I was experiencing was “normal.” That’s not my word, that came directly from the GM representative’s mouth. So now I know --- GM considers it normal for their cars to need major engine rework at 40,000 miles.


To help keep me as a potential future customer, I would like the following:

My family will not buy a GM car ever again. Not an Olds, not a Chevy, not a Buick or a Cadillac, not even a Saturn, even though we were considering one. We will give our business and our money to your competition for the rest of our lives.

Please know this, the relationship between a company and a customer is fragile. When you take people’s money and give them poor quality products, you can make short-term profits, but in the long run you loose. In this case you’ve lost. You’ve lost any opportunity to sell me a car for the rest of my life and probably that of my children. I have and will continue to tell my friends and associates not to buy a GM.


At the very least I would like a response from your company regarding this incident. Thank you for your time.
     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2002-03-08:
Unfortunately American model cars are junk. They have been for the past 20 years. May I suggest investing in a Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, or Subaru. These cars are more reliable. They may cost a little more up front, but in the long run you will most likely have fewer problems with them. Good Luck!
Posted by Anonymous on 2002-04-17:
I'm sorry you got taken from GM like a lot of us other hard working people. GM doesn't give a darn about it's customers once their vehicle has been sold. As a 2000 Silverado owner who also got ripped off by GM, there are a number of websites that are fighting for your cause and mine. You can forget GM ever doing anything for you unless they are made to. Check out this site and you will find useful information as well as links to other sites who are fighting for our rights as consumers. http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html And another great site is http://www.lemonaidcars.com/home.htm
Best of luck to you!
Posted by Anonymous on 2002-11-05:
Thank you,
I agree 100% with your devaluation and disappointment from GM. I to purchased a 2000 Alero V6 that has hit 46,000 miles and I have paid for numerous repairs out of pocket due to poor service and horrible warranty and customer service...list of repairs include broken a/c at 25,000 miles, broken radio at 40,000, broken power windows at 26,000 miles, water leaks in at car wash at 26,000 miles, replaced brake shoes and pads at 45,000 miles, power from lighters not working at 30,000 miles and numerous other annoying expensive repairs a 2 yr old car should not need especially when a single parent with 3 children can barely afford and Gm will not hear or respond to my complaints, I will never ever!!! purchase any oldsmobile and word of mouth from me getting around as well neither will my family or friends.
Posted by Anonymous on 2004-01-20:
I have a 1998 Z-71, 5.7 motor that I just had the intake manifold replaced on. It has 58,000 miles and the dealer said that this is normal. Two other Service Managers at two other dealers agreed.I have had small block Chevys all my life and never had a intake manifold replaced, ever!
Posted by charleegal on 2004-03-16:
I have a '99 grand am which is now having trouble with leaking antifreeze. The intake valve is the problem and through research I've found there are many that are having the same problems and are receiving the same response (or lack thereof) from GM. I was also told by GM that this is 'normal wear and tear'. I've also had previous repairs that I found out were also due to this problem. My car has only 53000 miles on it. I've found that there is a class action lawsuit against GM due to this dex-cool 'problem'. I would encourage anyone who has not received satisfactory retribution for these specific problems from GM to join the lawsuit. Just go to Dex-Coolcase.com.
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LS1 Engine "Piston Slap Defect Scandal"
Posted by Retirednak on 04/17/2002
I made the mistake of buying a new 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 4x4 Z71 Extended Cab truck from Tony Chevrolet of Anchorage. Within 1500 miles I noticed an engine noise and took it to our local dealers service dept in my home town of Wasilla where Tony Chevrolet also happens to have another dealership. I was told the noise was normal and all the new LS1 engines made this noise. I took them at their word because I had always been treated right at this dealership. This truck has been a pure lemon from day 1 with many other numerous problems including a drive train vibration that is still present, with new problems almost monthly. Around 8-2001 I found out a large number of LS1 powered cars and trucks 4.7,5.3,6.0,8.1 Liter engines suffer from a design defect called "Piston Slap". The Firebirds,Camaro and yes, even the Vette motors suffers from this defect. GM has numerous TSB stating there is nothing to worry about, this is just a normal noise your engine makes. If it's normal, why don't all the LS1 engines sound this way? We tried to use the BBB autoline that the GM 800 number recommended and figured we had a open and shut case since the truck had been to the dealership the required amount of times to be considered a lemon. Boy were we wrong. GM has the BBB autoline in their back pocket, why else would they recommend using the program? I have 23000 miles on my truck, you can lay down under the oil pan and listen to the knocking noise coming from above the oil pan. My truck pings on very small hills without a load and it doesn't make a difference what gas is used. A person can leave the engine idling and walk around the front of the truck and hear a tapping noise. But that's normal also! If your thinking about buying a new or low mileage GM car or truck don't! Are you willing to take a chance on your hard earned money? GM will not back up the basic 3 yr 36 K mile warranty and it won't do you a bit of good if they try to sell you a warranty if your buying used. If you happen to own a GM vehicle, next time you change your oil, take a sample and send it into an independent company who does oil analysis and have your oil checked to see if it's clean or dirty. Don't depend on GM to tell you the truth about their oil analysis. If your oil is showing normal wear you got lucky and shouldn't have anything to worry about. If your sample shows abnormal wear it's time to document the findings and get ready for an uphill battle with GM. I'm not a GM basher, I've owned 7 GM vehicles and have been proud to own them. They have been mostly trouble free and the service dept's have always treated me very well. With this Silverado, I've been lied to, cheated and defrauded. I was told GM had a fix for this "customer concern". They would either replace the pistons with the "updated pistons" or have a new engine installed. Now I'm told they will do neither, because there is not a problem. My independent oil analysis tells a different story. I did call GM's 800 Customer service line today 4-17-02 to update our case file and let them know the knocking and pinging is getting worse. I was again told that GM is working on another fix for the "customer concern" issue and they would let us know when they are ready to address the issue. GM has great bunch of hard working employees who are forced to lie about this defect or are told to say nothing at all. If you want to help fight for your rights and have your GM vehicle fixed, take a look at this website link below and it also has links to other sites who are fighting the same cause. There is also a number of the V6 engines used in GM cars that suffer from Piston Slap Defect". The best thing you can do is educate yourself about this Defect. I'm almost sure this will turn into a Class Action Lawsuit/ Scandal before everything is said and done. Remember how GM handled the gas tank defect a numbers of years ago to save a few bucks? Will I buy another GM vehicle? NO! I've persuaded 2 people not to buy new GM pickups, all I had to do was let them listen to my engine. That's at least $60K GM doesn't get a profit from. Hey GM! how many other owners do you think are doing the same thing?http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html

     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2003-12-01:
My 2000 Z-71 has piston slap, "funny" brakes, 4-wheel drive sometimes disappears, and now my tailgate fell off! Plastic covers on cables hides wear and breakage, so when latch failed on gate, it not only opened, it fell off the truck and damaged it significantly! I am very disappointed in the quality of the engineering now exhibited by GM.
Posted by mred80 on 2005-02-23:
i to am having problems with this piston slap on my 2002 ws6 trans am, took it to the pontiac dealership and was told that gm was not doing anything for this problem. i purchased it used, why am i spending money a piece of crap. that slaping noise is pretty load, you think it would cause an exteme amount of wear and tear to this motor. i was told it was a kind of plastic coating on the pistons that eventually comes off and causes the slaping noise. gm just dosent want to fix it because of the cost of it, just think of all the motors they would have to repair. thats a courporation for you, just trying to make as much money as possible at expence of the consumers.
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Repair Program
Posted by Principissa on 11/13/2007
MADISONVILLE, KENTUCKY -- About a month ago the speedometer in my husbands 2004 Silverado started malfunctioning.

He would be driving and it would either not work or stay stuck at 110 mph.

We took it in about 3 weeks ago and got a diagnostic done on it and the total estimate for parts and labor was 575.00.

We did some research on the internet and found numerous complaints (about 500 in total) having the same exact problems.

We found out through this research that GM is issuing a special repair program for people who are having problems with their instrument cluster.

This afternoon I called up their support number 866-790-5700 and spoke to a woman named Joan. She was a true delight to talk to. She asked for the VIN of the truck and put me on hold and came back to tell me that our truck does in fact fall under the special repair program and that all the work will be done at no cost to us.

She then did a three way call with the closest dealership to us to schedule an appointment for the repairs to be done.

This was completely unexpected. We were fully expecting and prepared to pay for the work to be done. We actually had an appointment for next week to get the repairs done because the part was on back order.

The courtesy and professionalism I received from Joan at the customer support line and Mr. Dodson from the dealership was amazing.
     
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Posted by furnitureman on 2007-11-13:
Glad to hear your good experience. It good to know customer service does exsist
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-13:
Good things happen when you buy American! Great post and info, thanks.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-13:
Excellent info! I can just imagine how many people wouldn't bother to take the time to do the research, or, call, to get this resolved.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-13:
i was looking at the Silverado,but Im still not convinced.Ive only owned Toyota's,and Honda's and they have been excellent.

It is cool that they are going to take care of this.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-13:
Principissa, Great post and great information, thanks!
Posted by jktshff1 on 2007-11-13:
Great Post!!(VH)
btw: tell your hubby to quit going 110mph and it won't stick there! LOL!!
Posted by Principissa on 2007-11-13:
LOL jk!
Posted by Principissa on 2007-11-13:
I bought my Cavalier in 2001 used with 10k miles on it. It's driven up and down the east coast from NJ to VA and back 12 times and from VA to KY and KY to NJ 4 times. And she still runs like she did when I bought her.
Posted by miketech on 2007-11-13:
Chevy makes a great truck. I think a GM truck can pretty much hang in there with an import on lastability.
Posted by Aerocave on 2007-11-14:
Ah yes...finally some well-deserved positive feedback on GM. Thanks Pricipissa!
Posted by MRM on 2007-11-14:
Good review and great experience indeed.
Posted by james1 on 2007-12-26:
I would like to report I was not as lucky. I had bought 8 new gm cars and trucks stating in 2003. I have a 2003 tahoe and a 2003 trailblazer with speedometer broken. I called to be told we had to many miles. both speedometers have been broken for over 2 yrs. The trailblazer is driven to college by my daughter. I will tell you the public I have bought my last GM car or truck. I find no reason for these type defaults, speedometers should last forever...
Posted by mad at you on 2007-12-26:
They will not repair mine (03silverado)same speedometor problem.Chevy does make a good product just need to stand behind them.Hey GM it is a recall please fix it.
Dealerships are a bunch of carnies.
Posted by no toys in kids meal on 2007-12-26:
110 miles per hour???? Why would any one need to drive so fast in the first place? How did you know it stuck at 11o mph unless you commonly drive at speeds that endanger you and every one else around you? I hope I am never on the same roads with my son in the car while you are barrelling down the road with no concern for any one but yourself. Slow down.
Posted by judyneric on 2007-12-30:
Did you get the initial $575 estimate from a Chevy or GM dealer? If you did, I wouldn't be too quick to give props to GM here, for a couple of reasons: instead of giving you an estimate, the dealer should have known about the no-cost repairs and told you immediately the problem would be fixed free of charge. If the dealer did not know, it is because GM didn't tell them, or GM didn't do a good enough job of explaining what the special repair program was for. If the dealer DID know and still gave you an estimate, it is because GM has some shady dealers, or GM directed the dealers not to inform customers about the program unless they asked, or some other thing that I just forgot. All that being said, if it was an independent garage that gave you the estimate, then good for GM for not fighting you on this, and making the repair at no cost to you. But if it was a GM or Chevy dealership who was going to charge you initially, this is just another example of why American vehicle manufacturers and their dealerships just don't get it.
Posted by vindiesel on 2008-03-04:
same problem malfunctiong gauges in a 2004 GMC dudra max diesel, oil pressure and alternator gauges going to full...Went to local dealer(coachella valley)GMC
they said was covered but i explained it has 77k miles that was ok, dropping vehicle off another story, it was now not covered, service manger stated i needed to call GM, i did, they contacted dealer whom said i missed my appointment.i callled dealer back, spoke to service manager now i must pay $90 to get gauges tested. this could have been told to me when i arrived at dealer...GM states thehave a program for people like myself that are just out of the 7yr or 70k miles this is not even the normal allowed 12or 15k allowed by dealers for trade in ...THE WORST SERVICE EVER. The service manager has no knowledge of extra special care for us out of the 7/70 allotment..GM needs to get all service managers informed...GM is realy difficult to deal with...you must buy the vehicle from them to get service. how silly as lots of us travel RV ing. found a wesite to repair for $169.for this problem and without the hassle
Posted by Fred Allen Burge on 2010-08-13:
I had the same issue with my 2003 Silverado Z71, then the speedometer, tachometer and water temp gauge all completely died.
I now repair these instrument clusters with these problems for people, I'm not the cheapest but I've got the best warranty on my work, my site is www.DrSpeedometer.com
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POOR WORKMANSHIP & QUALITY
Posted by Channa on 01/28/2006
CARTHAGE, MISSOURI -- GM will not be satisfied building vehicles that are simply competitive. We are out to build best-in-class vehicles in each and every segment. Bob Lutz, GM Vice Chairman

General Motors enjoys a long tradition of accountability, integrity and transparency that has helped establish our reputation as a leader in corporate responsibility. Rick Wagoner, CEO

We Are Professional Grade.

Shame on you. And shame on me, I bought into the sales pitch of your company. I purchased a 2005 Envoy XL in July 2005.

Window won't roll up - twice repaired-or should I say pulled into track once, finally repaired second attempt-missing bolt.

Headlights dim & flicker to the extent that I have to run the fog lights at times-looked at twice-NEVER REPAIRED. Standard operation of vehicle, according to GM service bulletin.

CD/Radio broken-repair pending.

Front passenger seat molding-second repair pending.

Front passenger door molding-repaired twice.

Pulling into parking lot-vehicle dies for no apparent reason.

ABS activated at low speed.

Walked twice from service providers because auto wasn't disabled enough for service to provide transportation.

Lost work hours having to take the SUV to service providers.

For the last 10 years I have been a loyal Nissan customer. Shame on me for turning my back on a company and automobile that provided me with everything that your company pitches but does not provide. Would go back to Nissan, but currently attempting to make lemonade from extremely bitter lemon.

P.S. Want to buy an Envoy?
     
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Posted by spasticdog on 2006-04-30:
I once owned a chevy trialblazer,which is basicly the same vehicle-frame,engine,etc,just a little difference in body style.Anyway,that thing stayed in the shop.The rear end went out at 3500 miles,replaced airbag in steering wheel twice because it was about to fall out.A/C quit working a month afer purchase,dash gauges would quit working driving down the road and come back on a few minutes(they never fixed this because they could not fine a problem).Needless to say this baby was traded after 1 year and will never even look at a trailblazer or envoy again.Bad workmanship and quality go into these vehicles.Just look at them closely they even look cheap!My mistake for buying one!!!!!
Posted by mammag81588 on 2006-10-13:
Go ahead and keep buying your Nissans. I had one that was crap.
I would buy An Envoy for the simple reason too many american jobs are going over seas.It may not effect you now but it will.
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GMC complaints
Posted by on 04/17/2002
Wow! I just visited this site for the first time and immediately noticed that out of the current 40 compaints posted, GMC owns 13 of them! Pretty poor reputation, I'd say!
     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2004-01-12:
Keep Reading! GM is the "leader of the pack" from what I have read. And from the experiances I have had with GM dealers and their service departments, I can plainly see why. I am taking my brothers advice (he is a professional mechanic), no more GM products, they have developed the same attitude as Microsoft- Get the product out so we can sell it to millions of people, make megabucks, then work out the bugs later.
Posted by Raed on 2009-07-06:
i had avery bad experience with General Motors, to have a spare parts in the Market for Chevy Truk 2005
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GM truck sunroof leak/Dealer performance.
Posted by Markman34 on 08/28/2009
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to post this where it will get some exposure.
I have had an ongoing issue with GM and GSL Chev City in Calgary Alberta Canada regarding my leaky sunroof. 2007.5 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab.
Many owners out there are having problems getting their trucks fixed, including me and I'd like to share my story.
I'm hoping that GM will pick up and run with this once they see that there are enough concerned customers out there.
Here is a letter that I recently wrote to GM regarding the poor performance that I have experienced.
_______________________________________________

Administrative Operations - Service, Parts, Operations (SPO)
General Motors of Canada Limited, SPO
1908 Colonel Sam Drive
Oshawa, Ontario

To Whom It May Concern:

Recently I purchased a 2007 Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab used in a private sale. Unfortunately, I have been having ongoing problems with the truck regarding water leaking into the cab of the truck during rainstorms.

I purchased the truck in December 2008 and initially did not have any problems as the temperature was most often below freezing. As summer arrived, so did the rain and almost every time it rained I noticed that the headliner, seatbelts, and carpet in the truck would get wet. I was due to have the oil changed in the truck and also intended to have washer fluid heater repaired due to a GM recall.

11/05/2009
I brought my truck to GSL Chev City in Calgary as it is very close to my home.
The recalled washer fluid heater was repaired without issue.
I asked GSL to investigate a squeaky driver’s side front window. The technician noted a TSB regarding lubrication of window hardware and billed me ½ hr. labour. $62.50
I also asked to investigate a slight delay in the washer fluid when pumped. The technician tested the washer fluid pump and deemed it to be working properly. I was billed ½ hr labour $62.50.
I also asked GSL to identify and repair a leak that caused the headliner, seatbelts and carpet to get wet after rain. The intake employee (_________) told me that these leaks often occur when owners use touchless car washes as the high pressure spray overwhelmed the sunroof seal and sunroof drains. I told the Tammi that I do not, and have never, used a touchless carwash and that a light rain would cause the truck to leak. The technician tested the water tightness of the truck with a rain tower and came to the conclusion that everything was working properly. I was billed 1 hr labour. $125.00.
When I heard of these charges I contacted the service manager _________ and told him how upset I was regarding them. I told him that they were outrageous and he agreed with me. All of the charges in question were reduced to zero other than a ½ hr. diagnostic charge for the sunroof leak. $62.50
When I went to pick up the truck I noticed on the work order “Suspect touchless car wash was used and water overflowed front sunroof tracks (normal) No sign of leak at this time” This, after I specifically told the GSL employee (________) that I did not use those car washes. I was insulted.
I paid the bill and hoped that there were no more leaks.



08/07/2009
The truck continued to leak so I took it back to GSL service. The technicians again tested the sunroof with rain towers and told me that there was no leak therefore there was nothing to be fixed. Fortunately, there was no charge. Once again on the work order/invoice it was written “leak not present at this time. Suspect customer is using high pressure car wash and over coming sunroof drain’s ability and causing water to flow through headliner and into B pillar trim” This comment even after I specifically told GSL on two occasions that I did not use touchless car washes. During a follow up conversation with ____________ I was asked if I was sure I was closing the sunroof properly as that may be a possible cause of the leak. I was insulted once again.

The truck continued to leak.

16/07/2009
I took the truck back to GSL service and asked them to drop the headliner as that would surely enable the technicians to identify the leak. _____________ and I agreed that I would pay an additional 1 hour labour ($125) for the R&R of the headliner. I traveled to the shop to see the situation myself. When I arrived the technician had the truck sitting under rain towers waiting for the sunroof to leak with the headliner down. They told me that there was no leak and that everything was operating as designed. I looked around a bit and noticed a hole in the driver’s side drain channel and that the drain hoses ran uphill. The hole in the drain channel was dripping and the reverse grade on the drain tubing caused the drain channel to overflow as water rarely flows uphill. I asked them to drive a screw into the hole in the channel, as was done on the passenger side, and to try to correct the grade of the drain tubing that flowed uphill. They put the truck back together.
I was called by _____________ and told that the cost that we agreed on had now gone up. At this point I was once again disappointed and called Robert Wolfe (the owner of GSL) and told him my concerns. He called back shortly after and told me that the charges would be as we agreed on totaling1 hour labour. $125.00. Thank you Mr. Wolfe.
They put the truck back together. When I picked up the truck I noticed that on the work order/invoice, highlighted in pink was a note “No more work orders are to be opened on this vehicle without service management approval and a clear understanding of responsibility for charges RWK” I understood this as asking me not to return.
Being quite displeased with GSL at this point I didn’t think that would be a problem.

The truck continued to leak.

25/08/2009 I called and talked to Service manager at GSL and expressed my concerns. I asked if they would like to try again to fix the truck he said “no, he would rather not.”

25/08/2009 I called and talked to Francine at GM customer Service and let her know that I was intending to take the truck to Jack Carter Chevrolet in an attempt to have the problem fixed.

25/08/2009 When I was blessed with a free moment I decided to have a look at the truck myself. I dropped the rear corners of the headliner and adjusted the drain hoses, and repaired the problem. (Unfortunately the GSL technician had not done this as I had asked when in the shop) I lowered both hoses to just above airbag so that water didn’t have to flow uphill. I also noticed that the passenger side drain hose did not have the retainer clip to attach it to the body and keep it from moving around.
These Repairs took me, a Plumber, about an hour. I then tested the drainage system with a running hose in drain pan for approx an hour. There were NO LEAKS.

26/08/2009 Looking for more information regarding my issues, I went to another of the Chevrolet dealers in Calgary and inquired into TSB 09-08-57-002. When I read this TSB I was surprised to see that the EXACT symptoms were listed in this document. Even more surprising was that the same procedure that I used to correct the problem was also described in “Condition 2” of the TSB document. This was so surprising because, during my time at the GSL shop to view the truck with the headliner down, I specifically mentioned that this was a likely cause of the leak and asked for it to be corrected. Water does not have a tendency to flow uphill.

At this point I wish to express my concerns to everyone important to the situation. I feel as though I have been put through the wringer over this and pointing out these problems may help me and any future customers with similar problems.

Firstly, I’d like to comment on the fact that I have been able to identify hundreds of documented issues relating to these trucks and sunroof leaks. I was also able to bring to the attention to all I spoke, the TSB and PIT documents related to the sunroof issue. I know that GM has had to deal with this in the past, yet when it comes to my truck they had absolutely no idea. When I asked GM or GSL employees about an ongoing issue with the sunroofs leaking, I was told that there were no issues.

Secondly, why is it that your top notch mechanics working at a GM dealership spent hours and hours (supposedly) trying to identify and rectify this problem and I, a Plumber with no formal mechanics training, fixed it in about an hour?

Thirdly, I would like to know why your service department, after being told that the sunroof leaks in a light rain always come back with “we can’t make it leak” therefore it does not leak. Why, after being told that I NEVER use touchless carwashes on two occasions, GSL tells me that the likely cause of my leak is a touchless carwash? How insulting. Not to mention questioning my ability to properly operate the sunroof controls. Good Lord!

Fourthly, I must comment on the aggressive billing that I encountered on my first visit to GSL. Charging me ½ hour labour to view a TSB regarding a window squeak, or charging me ½ hour labour to have the technician sit in the truck and run the washer fluid for 10 seconds is a DISGRACE.. How many people would have paid that? It almost seems criminal. I have to admit, part of the reason I have been so tenacious with GSL is because of this aggressive billing fiasco.

Lastly, I would like to be refunded the monies that I have paid to have less than nothing done to my truck relating to my sunroof leaking. So far I have been billed $187.50 to have my sunroof issue fixed or even diagnosed. For that expense, I have not had my truck fixed, I have not had the problem diagnosed, I have been insulted, and have had to take it upon myself to fix the issue.

I find it a shame that I am not welcome to bring my vehicle to GSL anymore. It would be very convenient to have my service performed there but seeing how things have transpired, even if I was welcomed at GSL’s service department, I wouldn’t bring my vehicle there.

I hope that this will all be a lesson to everyone involved. Perhaps my truck won’t rust out and fill with mould due to the constant wet in the truck after all. Perhaps GSL and General Motors will learn something about providing a better customer experience.

I look forward to hearing your comments regarding this matter and to my refund as well.

Thank you for your time.

One Dissatisfied Customer












     
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"Red" Anti-Freeze
Posted by Honey Bunny on 05/04/2006
VIRGINIA -- I purchased a '97 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4x4 in June of 2002. I have had a tremendous amount of problems with my vehicle because of the factory "red" anti-freeze (extend life) that is used in GM products. The "red" anti-freeze deteriates the coolant system, gaskets, rubber, etc. I have had to replace the intake manifold gasket at 40K miles. The water pump had to be replaced at 59K miles (fluid was flushed and serviced every 2 years). On April '05 at 69K, I had to replace the red with green anti-freeze due to it being bad. I just recently replaced the Radiator because of a leak caused by this anti-freeze at 75K miles. I have spent a total of $1,500 due to these problems - the parts have worn out prematurally because of this red fluid.

I have been extremely dissatisfied with General Motors due to all the problems stated mainly because of the "factory" fluid that GM uses. I can honestly say, that I will never purchase a GM product again ... I will seriously consider purchasing a Toyota product.

If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know.

Sincerely,

"very discouraged and unsatisfied customer"
     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2006-05-04:
Been there done that and got the tee shirt to prove it.(GMC Jimmy). Besides some of the issues you raised every fall I had to back flush the heater coil. I never realized it was due to the GM special anti-freeze.


Posted by Anonymous on 2006-05-08:
And it is from these dumb mistakes why the American car companies are beginning to hurt. They'll have to learn sometime (possibly before Honda and Toyota put them out of business).
Posted by Anonymous on 2006-05-09:
For what it's worth - a mechanic friend of the family said "radiator flushes" are a no no. Don't know did you do these flushes? Could've exacerbated the problems et al.
Posted by CaptainSpaulding on 2006-09-29:
The "red" anti-freeze is called "Dex Cool". My old car (a '97 Pontiac Grand Am, which died with less than 50,000 miles on the odometer) had serious problems with it's engine and cooling system because of it. After I got rid of that schitbox car, I bought a Toyota, and I haven't had a problem since!
Posted by redbird2 on 2011-10-08:
I have a 2001 Buick Lesabre I bought used 4 years ago .I had to have the motor replaced this past year. I am leaking antifreeze out of the intake sporadically. When I called and asked some GM service managers they recomend that I use the Dexcool as they still do. I will use the green antifreeze instead . I am a single parent out of work and this was a huge investment for me to replace my engine. It seems like GM is giving alot of lip service but not any answers or taking any blame for themselves.
Posted by GenuineNerd on 2011-10-08:
My mother had the Dexcool replaced with the green antifreeze in her 1996 Oldsmobile Cutlass due to problems with leaks-I also found black sludge in the coolant recovery tank. However, I never had any Dexcool-related issues with my 2004 Chevy Cavalier-I had Valvoline replace the coolant (and serpentine belt) at 100,000 miles, and still had no problems until the time I replaced it with the 2007 Cobalt I'm driving now. I think that GM worked out any Dexcool issues with its vehicles by the time the 2004's came out...they still use it in their current line of vehicles. i don't think any auto manufacturer uses the original green antifreeze as factory fill anymore...Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, VW, etc. all have their own special kind of coolants now.
Posted by GenuineNerd on 2011-10-08:
Most garages and quick-lube places simply just drain and refill the coolant now-no flushing. Also, on the Cavalier and the Cobalt, the ENTIRE cooling system is under pressure now-not just the radiator. On my mother's Cutlass, the coolant recovery tank wasn't pressurized...maybe the introduction of air to the system caused these Dexcool problems. When both the radiator and the recovery tank are under pressure, it probably reduced a lot of these Dexcool problems-under pressure, rust and sludge won't have a chance to foul up the cooling system.
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STAY AWAY FROM GM CRAP
Posted by Aztekterror on 11/19/2004
TRUST ME PEOPLE....GM HAS NO CARE FOR YOU AFTER YOU BUY THEIR VEHICLES, I WILL BE OUT OF THIS CAR ONE DAY, AND NEVER EVER AGAIN WILL GM GET MY BUSINESS
     
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