General Motors HHR

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2006 Chevy HHR
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FLOWERY BRANCH, GEORGIA -- I purchased a 2006 Chevy HHR LS in the summer of 2006. I loved the car and it ran very well. I have now put 78k miles on it and it has had a total engine failure. After contacting GM, they are willing to do nothing. I ended up dealing with 3 different customer service representative at GM and I never felt like any of them really paid attention or cared what was going on with my car. I was nice and polite until the very end when they told me they would do nothing.

The following is taken from the notes I made during the process:

On 10/21/08 I was driving the HHR and the car started running rough in the morning on the way to work. It was making a clacking/clattering noise and sounded a lot like a diesel engine. Car sat in the parking lot at work all day and continued to run rough in the evening. I stopped at a gas station, filled up and checked the oil. The oil was lower than it had been so I added one quart of oil and drove to pick up my son from school and head home. After picking up my son and half way between his school and home the check engine light came on. I pulled over to see if I could see the problem, but could not. I drove the car a few more miles to a service center and left it for the night.

10/22/08: The service center informed me that I needed an engine flush and an oil change. Once that was completed I was told the car was running fine (fixed), but I needed a power steering flush, new struts and shocks, new brakes, new tires and a fuel injector flush. I declined the services and went to pick up the car in the evening. The car still sounded like a diesel and still made the clacking noise, but the check engine light was off. Left the car again.

10/23/08: The service center informed me that they could not do any further service on the car because they did not do engine work. They informed me that sometimes driving the car a little would work the new oil through the engine and get rid of engine noise. I picked up the car that evening and drove it home.

10/25/08 – 10/26/08: Drove car very short distances to try to get oil running through the engine as suggested. Check engine light came back on the evening of 10/26 and I parked the car. I planned to find a mechanic and get and engine diagnostic performed.

10/27/08: Contacted a full-service center about looking at the car. They informed me that they could and I planned to drop the car off that night. Later that day I took my wife to the emergency room and due to her medical problems I could not do anything with the car for over a week.

11/04/08: Finally able to do something with the car I dropped it off at the full-service center at night.

11/05/08: The owner called to see what they needed to do with the car. I explained the problem and they ran an engine diagnostic that showed fault code PO306 misfire and PO326 knock sensor out of range. He informed me that they would need to take the top of the engine off in order to find the exact problem. He later called me and said that the engine was not getting enough oil pressure to the rear cam. He said that his master tech called it a total engine failure and that I needed to replace the engine. He also informed me that they did some looking and after speaking to a service manager at a GM dealership that this had occurred on other 2006 Chevy HHRs and that GM had offered an extended warranty to 3 yr/ 100,000 miles. He recommended that I call the dealership I purchased the car from and speak to the general manager to see what could be done.
I called the Chevrolet dealer where the vehicle was purchased and asked for the General Manager. I was transferred to the New and Used car director and after trying to talk me into trading my car in and buy another he offered to have “the proper” person call me back to deal with my issue. I received a call from the service manager and told him of my problem. He explained that he had not heard of GM changing or extending the warranties, but asked if he could look into it and give me a call back.

I called the full-service center later in the day and he suggested that I call Chevy Customer Service, so I did. I spoke with a guy and he asked for my VIN#. After looking things up, he informed me of recall #08016, but could not find anything else listed for my car. He took my name address and phone number and said they would contact me if anything came up. After I asked about any type of warranty extensions or recalls for the engine he informed me that he could only look up information about my car.

Spoke to full-service center owner again and he transferred me to his master tech and he explained in more detail what had happened and what could have caused it. “Three of the rear camshaft caps are loose. Each cap has two bolts, all of which are loose. The loose camshaft obviously scored the camshaft journals. One of the rocker assemblies is broken. The cylinder head is damaged and beyond repair. Metal shavings are present in the oil passages. The engine needs replacement. There is no evidence of lack of maintenance. On arrival, the oil level was full.”

The service manager at the dealership called me back and told me that he could find nothing about extended or changed warranties. I asked for any contact information for Chevy and he gave me the same customer service number I already had.

I spoke with a customer service representative at GM customer service. I told him everything that had happened and quoted the master tech in his description of the problem. I even told him about a Burger King cup that I found on the inside of my front bumper that could have only made it to that location while the car was being assembled. He said he would escalate my call to a district specialist. He said my report would be followed up in 24 hours. He agreed that it sounded like a manufacturer defect. He also stated that the car would need to be diagnosed at a GM dealership and placed me on hold to schedule the car to be towed to a locale dealership.

After some trouble getting things set up the car was towed from the full-service center to the Chevrolet dealership. I contacted the service manager and he informed me that the car could probably not be looked at until Monday because his engine specialist was already working on another car.

My wife needed something from the car so I drove to the Chevrolet dealership and was escorted to the car by one of the salesman. I noticed that the engine was already disassembled and it looked like the diagnostic had already been done. I got what I needed and left expecting a call from the service manager on Monday.

I called the Chevy dealership and spoke with the service manager. He said that most of the upper engine did need to be replaced and it would be just under $4000. He also said that they would not know about any other problems until they started working on it. He was pretty unhelpful and made it obvious that he was not going to be very helpful. I am still surprised that he did not call me on Monday or Tuesday to inform me. I am also surprised that there was no contact between the dealership and GM customer service. I called GM customer service right after, got voicemail and left a message.

Called GM customer service again and left another message.

Called Gm customer service again and got voicemail, again. I called back and spoke with a new person. The new guy tried to get in touch with the old guy and found out that he was on vacation until tomorrow. New guy then told me he could help me escalate things to a district specialist (which old guy had already told me he had done). New guy asked me a bunch of questions about what happened and where I took it, where I got it serviced, if I had any other mechanical problems in the past, etc. I explained what happened, again, and he asked what my ideal result would be in this situation. I told him that I would like to have the engine fixed or replaced under the warranty that came along with every other HHR (100K miles). New guy put me on hold and spoke with the service manager at the Chevrolet dealership that had the car. When he came back on the line he said that he was now escalating my problem and that the old guy would get back in touch with me on Friday 11/21/08 or Monday 11/24/08. I also asked about a loaner car and he said that the state of my warranty would not allow for it.

Received a call from a new girl at GM Customer Service today. She explained that my problem had been escalated to her attention. She started to state that my car was not going to be fixed by GM, but before she did I explained my problems in further detail. She said that she would need to get the dealership to completely pull the engine apart to find the full extent of the damages. She started to ask me to call the dealership and then stated that she would call them herself to see what they could do. This was only after I pointed out that they really needed to be communicating more with the dealership and that my car had been sitting there for over a week now with nothing being done to it. She said that she would call be back later in the afternoon and give me more information.

The new girl called me back about an hour later and told me that GM would not cover the cost of repairing my engine. She said that since I did not take my car to the dealership for my regular maintenance that they could not tell what type of maintenance it had had. She stated that there were thousands of possible causes to the engine trouble I was having. She also started to tell me something about the fact that the type of oil used could have caused this problem. When I confronted her with the simple fact that the car was not assembled properly by GM and that there is no such maintenance that would require a mechanic to mess with the cams in the vehicle she backtracked a little and then stated that they could not determine the original cause of the problem. They could not see why it had happened, but felt that no matter what it was not their fault or problem. At this point I have to admit that the conversation became quite heated.

I started all this in hopes that GM would see that a mistake had been made and that they would take care of the problem. The $4k-$6k repair cost that I am now going to have to go through would probably cost them very little, but they would prefer to lose a customer for life than deal with a problem. The fact that an independent mechanic looked at the car and stated that it was a manufacturer defect only makes this easier for most people to see where GM is at fault. The fact that they tried to tell me it was due to lack of maintenance or that the brand of oil I used could cause this is even crazier than I ever could have imagined.

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dan gordon on 11/24/2008:
I'm not a mechanic but here is what I would have done. First you should have all your receipts for times you had the oil changed etc. I would not have driven it for a week making knocking noises that you knew weren't normal. I also would not have left it at a shop that doesn't do repairs. After all this then you decide you should take it to the dealership? You drove a lot of high miles for a two yr old car so I wouldn't be so fast in assuming its a mfctr problem. They have no idea what you did to service the car in the preceding 78,000 miles.
Aerocave on 11/25/2008:
This is a classic example of why you should always service your vehicle at the selling dealership (or at least at a dealership that is franchised for the vehicle that you own). I have seen this firsthand time and time again through similar situations at our store--yet some people just do not get it or, don't want to believe this--until the "bad news" comes...First of all, 76,000 miles is A LOT of miles on a 2 year old vehicle. Secondly, put yourself in GM's shoes for a minute: Based on of your service habits, your selling dealer was only good enough when you had a major problem that you wanted fixed at no charge--what about the oil changes, inspections, brakes, etc. over the past 76,000 miles? I'm convinced if you had a service history at the Chevrolet dealership, with factory trained technicians--you may have received some assistance--and the dealer would certainly have fought hard to get you something.

I'm truly sorry this happened, but this is exactly why paying a little extra during the sale for a good reputable dealership, with good people and expert technicians is worth it--and also why when I hear "I take it elsewhere for service because dealerships are too expensive"--I think to myself how at some point in the future, the couple bucks saved may be thousands of dollars lost.
Anonymous on 11/25/2008:
Have a friend that bought a used/rebuilt engine from these guys He is very happy with the engine and says no one could beat their prices.
HHR Horror on 12/02/2008:
@ dan gordon
Just to let you know a little more about this and to clear up some things. I have all the receipts and tried to show them to GM, but they didn't care about looking at them. I DID NOT drive the car for a week with it making knocking noises, that would make me an idiot, and at no point did I ever say that I drove the car for a week with it making knocking noises. I took the car to the closest service center I could find when the car started to make knocking noises and causing problems. The only reason that I ever took the car to the dealership is because GM insisted that I do so. I understand that 78K in 2 years is considered a lot, but it also depends on how and where you drive. I drive on the highway 32 miles to and from work 5 days a week, so I tend to put more miles on vehicles than many others do. However, I take excellent care of my vehicles because I expect them to last 10+ years (which all my other vehicles have). I also never assumed that it was a manufacturer’s problem. I was told my 2 different mechanics that it was a manufacturer problem and one of those mechanics works for GM. GM and the dealership would have been aware of the service done to the car in the past if they had bothered to take a look at any of the service records I brought them. Since those service records are still in the sealed envelope on the driver’s seat of the car this very minute, I know that they did not bother to do this.
HHR Horror on 12/02/2008:
@ Aerocave
I think it is funny that you are the second person to say that 78K miles are a lot of miles. I guess it depends on where you live. Where I live the average annual miles on a vehicle is about 15K. That means that I drive a little over double the average per year, but keep in mind that an average is just that. Some people drive more and some people drive less. I happen to drive a bit more than other do. Then again I drive 47 miles each way for work 5 days a week.

You also sound like you work for a dealership and maybe even in a service department. I do not know how things work at your service department, but I can tell you that from my experience in the past and most recently, I will never take a care to a dealership for service. The techs may be factory trained, but it doesn’t really make them better and it does nothing for customer service in any way. The fact that my local dealer wants me to drop the car off and leave it for the day, on a week day, and pay $45 for an oil change means that I will never do business with them. An oil change should take about 20 to 30 minutes and should not cost more than $25. I will clarify that this is the cost for the oil change only and did not include parts like filters or even the oil itself. Why would I pay $45 for a service that I can easily do myself or have someone at a local shop do while they are rotating and balancing my tires for only $20?

In reality I don’t think that GM was willing to do anything for me, regardless of where and how I serviced the vehicle. The fact that my service records are still sitting on the driver’s seat of my car in a sealed envelope tells me that they did not care about looking at them. The fact that when I called to ask about the cost of repair or replacement of the engine and the service manager informed me that they had not even opened up the engine to find out what the problem actually is, tells me that they were going to deny my request for repair and were looking for any excuse to do so. I just made it easier for them by not getting ripped of on a regularly scheduled basis.
Aerocave on 12/05/2008:

Your HHR utilizes the "Service Reminder System" which actually alerts you to service the vehicle by showing a percentage of oil life remaining. The recommended service schedule is now Maintenance 1 and Maintenance 2. You wind up with less services, as many customers now drive anywhere from 4-8k miles between oil changes, as there is no "3 month or 3,000 mile" service interval anymore. How is this relevant in your case? You stated that your dealer charges $45 for "just" an oil change. I think you may be confused. The Maint 1/Maint 2 is MORE than just an "Oil change." Therefore it costs more. Many times the tires are rotated as part of this service.

And I beg to differ, there are many dealers out there with excellent customer service. I am very proud to work for one myself--I realize that's not always the case--but I think you are too stuck on your "old ways" and refuse to give any dealer a chance--unless its free.

You and I are in different areas of the country, but I don't know anywhere in the US that you can pay $20 for an oil change and tire rotation. And if this place exists, I wouldn't take my car there. It just doesn't pay in the long run.

76,000 miles in 2 Years, no matter where you live is A LOT of miles. However, I still stick to my original observation. If you had serviced the vehicle regularly at a Chevrolet dealership, I think you may have been offered some help. GM doesn't care what Jiffy Lube, Monroe Muffler, or Bob the Backyard Mechanic did to your vehicle. They care what an authorized Chevrolet dealership did. The Service Managers have the authority for "goodwill" repairs (repairs out of warranty) for those customers and situations that deserve it. They can bring in factory reps for 2nd opinions. But the first question that GM typically asks is: "What's the service history on this vehicle?" I'm not afraid to admit to you that we would not have been able to help you at our dealership either...and our CSI rankings are well above District, Zone, and National levels

I have been in the car business almost my entire life--currently the General Sales Manager for the past 5 years--before that, other management and sales roles--and I'm telling you, I've seen this type of situation time and time again...I feel for you, as I realize the repairs are going to cost you...but to be blunt, you kind of brought it on yourself.
Carnut on 01/05/2009:
That's why I drive nothing but Lexus. Loaner, and never any problems. You're better off with an older Lexus than any new GM product. This is after YEARS of making mistakes buying every kind of car. Now I have come to realize that this is the only way I will ever go again.
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HHR Paint Chipping Problem
Posted by on
HAMBURG, NEW YORK -- If anybody is interested in buying a Chevrolet HHR I will save you the trouble and say DON'T BUY IT! Go to your nearest Toyota or Honda dealer instead. Any HHR that is not equipped with running boards has a paint chipping problem do to a design flaw by General Motors. The retro design of the HHR makes the wheel wells wider than the car which gives the car a nice look. However because the wheels are wider than the car the front wheels throw road debris at the rear rocker panel, wheel well, and doors causing the paint to chip away. So that cool hip design really doesn't matter because the car looks like hell after about 10,000 miles. General Motors recognizes the problem and will paint the car, however the new paint justs chips away again because of the design flaw. Chevrolet also recognizes the solution which is to install running boards on the vehicle. The only problem is General Motors thinks the running boards should be purchased by the owner and the problem that was created by GM in the first place is the customer's problem. The running boards costs about $800.00 to $900.00 after installation. So if you don't want your HHR's paint to fall off and look like hell because of a manufacturer's defect by GM then it will cost you just under $1000.00.

Chevrolet HHR Paint Chips   Chevrolet HHR Paint Chips 2   Chevrolet HHR Paint Chips 3

So GM screws up and then sticks the customer with the bill as if it was the customers fault in the first place. What bothers me the most is that General Motors still continues to sell the HHR without running boards giving the customer an option to let their paint chip off. I don't know why the running boards aren't standard equipment to prevent the problem. So every HHR on the road without running boards will look like hell after about a year of use. The next time you see an HHR without running boards just take a look at it and you will see the paint missing if you don't see the paint chipping it either means it was just repainted or the car is just a couple of months old. I tried to get GM to budge on this, and fought them for over a month. They plead ignorance when it comes to giving a customer running boards. I was told by a GM representative that GM does not recognize a design flaw and because it is the road causing the paint to chip away it is considered a divine issue or an act of God. So she is telling me that the car is not designed to drive on roads.
So if you bought an HHR you might as well use it as a display piece in your garden because it is not designed to go on roads.

It is a real shame that this has happened to my car because overall the rest of the car is great it just chips it's own paint. I was so happy with the car I was definitely planning on purchasing another one in about 3 years. But because of the way GM has decided to handle this I am really thinking about buying a Toyota or a Honda the next time. I am even filing a complaint with the attorney general and see if they can do anything about the issue. The way I see it General Motors knows they are selling a defective product and is continuing to willingly sell the defective problem. They are giving the customer the decision to buy a car that chips it's own paint. Not making running boards standard equipment is fraudulent on GM's part and is similar to giving the customer an option to purchase a car without a fender or a bumper or even brakes. They can raise the sticker price to cover the cost of the running boards so what is the problem?

That is why I have no choice but to turn to the Attorney General not for just my own sake but for everyone's sake.
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Pomona Guy on 08/15/2007:
In the old days we used to use mud flaps to prevent chipping. And what are you doing, driving around on gravel roads?
Sparticus on 08/15/2007:
It does seem like a poor design. Those flaring wheel wells should have had some sort of covering, or at least some super-durable coating. Appears they went for the cool factor over quality of design.
HHRSucks on 08/15/2007:
Update to HHR Paint chipping problem,
Pomona Guy brought up a good point, I thought mud flaps would be a solution and is the solution on cars with a normal design. I have researched the matter on many forums and many HHR owners have tried the mud flaps and splash guards and the road debris still gets under the flap still allowing the paint to chip. Most of the chipping is caused by normal highway travel the HHR picks up the fine sediment and sanblasts the paint away. Also the General Motors released a TSB bulletin suggesting that HHR owners purchase the running boards which means GM knows the real solution to the problem. The problem I have is paying $800.00 to $900.00 for GM's design mistake. Many HHR owners that have running boards have reported no problems because the fine sediment is redirected to the rear wheels. I drive on normal highways to work everyday and on no gravel roads. Sparticus is right you would think Chevy would put a special coating in the General area. Thankyou both for your feedback it is greatly apprectiated.
Hugh_Jorgen on 08/15/2007:
There is a product that RV dealers sell - it's some type of clear stick-on protective covering that is made to protect the front of motorhomes from chips and dings from the road. It's clear and once installed properly it's pretty much invisable. You might check with some dealers in your area and see what it would cost to protect your wheel wells with a couple of small pieces of this material.
Starlord on 08/15/2007:
General Motors for the past three or four years has been having a bad problem with their paint jobs. Maybe you haven't noticed it, but look around you, you will see many GM cars and light trucks with paint jobs that look like they are being removed by the spray wand at the local car wash. Big ugly patches of grey primer showing through the paint jobs that look like huge patches of paint have just peeled off. I woul dnot own a GM product for exactly this reason. Obviously, GM is not doing anything about this paint problem, because I see more and more of these ugly paint jobs instead of seeing any fixed.
HHRhater on 10/26/2007:
I wish I'd seen this before I bought my HHR. I've had a similar experience, and GM has refused to give me any financial assistance as far as installing running boards. I did find out something interesting when researching this-GM in Canada sells the HHR with running boards as standard equipment. Too bad Americans don't rate the same treatment, eh?
HHRSucks on 11/01/2007:
Hey! HHR hater I noticed your having the same problem. GM wants me to spend $800.00 to $900.00 to fix their mistake by suggesting runningboards. I heard the same thing about Canada, yet there are still HHR's driving around in the states with paint falling off of them. My HHR has been repainted and guess what, the new paint is already chipping again as predicted! Everyone thinks mudflaps are the solution, however I have read other posts that the mudflaps don't do anything because the road debris still gets under them. Plus my dealer and GM's TSB bulletin suggests that the owner does purchase runningboards. So GM is completely aware of the problem. They are knownly and willingly selling a faulty product. The fact of the matter is that it was a design flaw! The wider wheels cause the problem, yet Chevy has the solution right at their finger tips without even having to redesign the car! All they have to do is what they are doing in Canada, and that is to make Running Boards standard equipment! And at least give current HHR owners the runningboards free or at cost. Why should GM profit from their mistake? Giving the consumer the choise to let the paint fall off their car because of an accessory they didn't even know they had to purchase is just bad business! It is like giving the customer the option to buy a car without a fender or brakes!(And not informing them that brakes stop the car!) I guess American auto manufacturers don't care about American consumers. Yet the Japanese seem to care, that is why Toyota continues to slowly eat away at the domestic car sales.
Done with GM on 07/07/2010:
GM paint problems have been going on for years! My father had a 1990 van, I have a 2002 Tracker and I see even newer GM cars with the faded paint. Mine started fading 3-4 years ago. They won't do anything about it even though it's obviously a bad paint job. My father was a GM employee for many years and before he died, he was looking at a Dodge van because GM quality had disappeared. I am also done with GM. Was thinking about painting mine but I think instead I'll put a sign in the window instead that says, "Another 'QUALITY' paint job by GM!"
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VA Man drive 450 miles to complain to GM
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DETROIT, MICHIGAN -- A follow up to the story of the Power steering unit that I drove from VIRGINIA (not North Carolina) to Detroit to complain about. Many of the reprints of the story and even the TV interview with WDIV incorrectly stated that I was removed from the GM building. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I did speak with the head of security, he was very attentive. He did what he could to find an individual who could or would see me without an appointment. He did provide me with a name written on his business card of an individual who was not in town but would assuredly listen too me. I received a call from the news reporter while conversing with security at which time we shook hands and I left of my own volition. (read they were happy). As I was leaving I told him who the call was from and my next move. GM released a response via their public affairs person who explained that the power steering unit was "tuned differently" than the cobalt and that it had half as many complaints and that is why they were not made to recall.
That may be true of the COMPUTER programming, it has nothing to do with the electrical failure of the PART. And the fact that the SAME part number is used on SATURNS, COBALTS, MALIBUS as well as HHRs, and the exact same replacement part with NO different codes etc is used as the replacement.
I still have the defective Power Steering part. It is my intention to further this matter to prove GM LIED and is LYING to the owners, the public and the NHTSA. I did not drive to Michigan for simply the $91.63 refund, it was the principle of the issue which I understand is lost on the majority of the country these days. However, my issue went on unresolved and I was treated flippantly for 2 months before I finally took a drive. The gentleman from Detoit (I am too by the way) didn't even get the facts right of the story he was referring to. Can he be believed to even tell the facts as they happened to him? I had a customer complaint case and a number, did he even bother to call customer service 800 number?
I have taken a lot of grief for what I did, and those who spite me are more time than not more hateful int their comments about me. Who is misdirected?

DJ Derringer
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Alain on 11/02/2010:
Just a Guy, I have to give it to you, this is one Hell of a follow up!
jackiedavis87 on 11/20/2010:
this is fantastic if I didn't live in Texas I would do the exact same thing you should read my review of my cobalt
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Too Bad, Too Sad, You Are Just The Customer
Posted by on
DETROIT, MICHIGAN -- It's really a shame when the corporation actually almost tells you there is nothing we can do for you. The car is two years old and had a catastrophic engine failure at 38k miles. Now the gas mileage went from 32 down to 25 and the quality of the vehicle and the engine are totally compromised according to factory specifications. When dealing with the customer assistance individuals, they basically say there's nothing we can do for you, your just stuck with that vehicle. Very poor for customer loyalty or promoting there vehicles when they cannot deliver what is advertised, very poor indeed.

I would not purchase another GM vehicle since the defect is an engineering design problem that now I'm stuck with for the life of the vehicle.
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Anonymous on 03/25/2009:
Yeah, it really makes the rest of us want to bail them out.
Aerocave on 03/27/2009:
What was your "catastrophic engine failure?"
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Paint Chipping On Rocker Panel
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HUNTINGTON, WEST VIRGINIA -- I recently bought a 2007 Chevrolet HHR with 8,000 miles, and when I got home noticed the paint chipping on both sides of the rocker panels. I went back to Dutch Miller Chevrolet in Huntington, WV only to find out they would not make it right.

Why would you make a car without running boards being standard knowing the damage it does without them and then not make it right by putting them on for people?

My Dad was a die hard Chevy man, I'll never buy another one.
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Anonymous on 04/15/2008:
Could you clarify your post? Is the paint 'chipping' due to rock and road debris impact? Or, is the paint peeling due to poor adhesion. If it is the latter, there are numerous, pending class actions regarding poor paint adhesion on GM products (and Ford, and Dodge, and the rest).
Anonymous on 04/15/2008:
So in reality you are complaining because you did not get free runningg boards. HMMMMM..NEXT
Hugh_Jorgen on 04/15/2008:
Some people prefer the look of the HHR without running boards - you have to know if you choose that look you will need to repaint the rocker panels occasionally.

I believe the PT Cruiser suffers from the same problem - it's just how they are designed.

Slimjim on 04/15/2008:
Sadly locating the chips after the sale doesn't give you much leverage with the dealer. It especially isn't going to prompt Dutch to install an option free on a used car he already sold and has left the lot.
Aerocave on 04/15/2008:
You are not going to buy another GM vehicle over paint chips? Come on be realistic here!

I'll go a little further than Hugh...running boards on an HHR would look stupid.
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