JP Morgan Chase

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$25 Billion In Bailout Money And I Get Treated Like This???
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I have carried Capital One / WaMu / Chase Visa card for many years. My use of the account has varied from periods of carrying large balances to periods of not using the account at all. Most recently, I haven't used the account much because I have better terms elsewhere. I did use the account to pay for some Christmas purchases and was still carrying about a $600 balance as of the end of Feb. 2009. Then the unthinkable happened. I MISSED A PAYMENT DATE!!! The minimum due: $15.00. They called, I apologized for the error and told them I'd be sending $200 (more than eight times the minimum due) right away, which I did. The payment was due March 2, they received the payment March 4. I then received a letter stating that on March 3, Chase had reduced my credit limit to $568 (from $15,350) due to the late payment. The $568 limit maxed out the credit limit, thereby screwing my credit rating for excessive credit/debt ratio. I contacted Chase and asked for an explanation.

I was told that it was now Chase policy to reduce credit limits to the amount owed when payments were missed. I asked that the credit limit and interest rates be restored to their previous levels. I was told that it could be reviewed, but that would require that credit histories be accessed and committee meetings be held and several other wonders of the world be constructed before a decision could be made, and, of course, no guarantees could be offered. I stated this: Put the account back to where it was or I will pay off the remaining $350 balance today, close the account and spend the rest of my life avoiding doing business with Chase. Several minutes of hemming and hawing later, I determined that there would be no change on Chase's part, so I paid it off and closed the account.

My question is this: When the American taxpayer was forced to give at least $25 billion to Chase, were there any responsibilities that ran with those funds, either legal or moral? Wasn't the purpose of this banking bailout to spur lending and ease the "credit crunch"? I'm pretty sure the $15,000 of credit that got yanked from me wasn't re-distributed to some other credit-needing individual. I'm pretty sure Chase just shut down that credit facility and took a potential liability off its balance sheet. All the better to raise the stock price and maybe acquire some smaller banks that aren't in trouble. This "bailout" has turned into a fiasco - no strings were put on the funds and the banks aren't using them for the intended purpose. I'm lucky - I have the choice to pay this account off and walk away. I feel for all of those who don't have that option. Good luck to you - you'll need it dealing with these sharks.

I intend to keep track of how many solicitations I get from Chase asking me to open an account with them (credit card, bank account, mortgage, home equity LOC, etc.) for the next few months. I'm betting that it will be many (no reason for them to change now - I already get about one a week). If enough show up, I'll put it all online as a blog to illustrate the idiocy. I will also wager that the terms offered in those solicitations are better than anything they would have offered me before this incident happened.

Someone needs to tell them that it costs six times as much to attract a new customer as it does to keep an old one happy. But they have $25 billion to spend learning that anew. And your grandkids can pay the bill. God Bless America!!!
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Anonymous on 03/13/2009:
"My question is this: When the American taxpayer was forced to give at least $25 billion to Chase, were there any responsibilities that ran with those funds, either legal or moral?"
Answer: NO.
Why: How much money have you given to your congress-critter's campaign fund? Unless you can hope to match the amount given by banks, other lending organizations, and their can expect nothing from them. We have the best government money can buy.
tnchuck100 on 03/13/2009:
Doc, might I make a slight revision to your statement?

We have the best government money can buy.
They [the banks] have the best government money can buy.
Anonymous on 03/13/2009:
I will use your version in the future, chuck. NICE! 'We' don't have a government, 'we' simply respond to the edict issuers. Thanks!
Opine on 06/29/2010:
I also had this happen when Chase took over my WAMU card. The only difference was that I had NEVER missed a payment or made a single late payment. Their reasoning for lowering my credit limit AND raising my interest rate? My credit score lowered from an unpaid cell phone and medical bill. I told them where to go and stopped paying the bill altogether. I still have another card with a company that valued my business and did not double my monthly interest payment. I told the Chase rep on the phone they could consider the bailout MY credit card PAID IN FULL.
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They canceled my debit card on 3 day weekend- no access to MY MONEY.
Posted by on
When I opened my account, I refused the overdraft coverage- to avoid unnecessary fees. But when I linked my Paypal account to my chase checking, the fees still generated (because it was done with account number, rather than debit card number).

So I ended ended up 150ish overdrawn, most of which being overdraft charges. That was my fault.

From that point, I went into the local branch, explained the situation, and setup my new job to direct deposit- directly into my account, so that it would be cleared up ASAP. I also spoke with their telephone agents, and also explained everything. I told the phone agent that it would FOR SURE be handled by the 17th. She stated that wasn't a problem, and that she would give till the 21st, just in case.

So payday comes along, gets direct-deposited, and when I try to withdraw some money - no access.
Call the phone service, get put on hold - then a recording that my call didn't go through.
Try the online service - not valid
call the phone service again, and it goes into an endless loop of entering account and password.
I've dealt with poorly configured automated systems before, so I was able to hack my way through to a human. Who was help-less.

So, spoke with a supervisor, who tells me that the local branch de-activated my card, and she could send me a new one.
NOW KEEP IN MIND, IT IS SATURDAY NIGHT - THREE DAY WEEKEND, and I NEED to be AT work before 7am on MONDAY morning. The local branch won't open till 8 or 9 on TUESDAY.
Supervisor statede that it was policy to inactivate debit cards, when an account is overdrawn (total BS). So I stated that I'd look it up then call back- then asked if I'd still be able to get through - was told YES 24/7.
The only policy they have is that they may cancel a card at any time without any notice.
Tried to call back, and upon entering my info- auto-disconnected tried again, same thing. again, same thing. again same thing.

So I hacked back through to humans, and was told theat my info can't be accessed.
Stated that I wanted to talk to the same supervisor (R. V.). was then told that she was on another line, and that if I left my number she would call me right back.
My number was confirmed by the online agent, and never got a return call from the supervisor (R. V.)
Because I'm now going to request their "emergency services", that is listed in their policies.
I assume the service is similar to what BofA did for me when I Was working in a state without any BofA's and lost my bank card. They Western Unioned me some of my money.

99.999999% chance that CHASE WILL NOT.
They do not seem to care about the fact that I will loose my job, if I am unable to get to work. And that without access to my money, it's going to happen. 78 miles is just too far of a walk.

I WILL be closing my account, as soon as I'm able to cool down enough, to not get arrested, when I go in there.
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trmn8r on 01/16/2011:
Things happen in life. Banks are not open 24/7. It appears it was your negligence in the first place that led to this disruption. Maybe you can borrow some money to make it through an extra day or two. Good luck.
krowl on 04/22/2011:
Wow, you shouldn't have to go through all that to access your own money. What if you needed to buy food or medicine or had an emergency, it could have been a lot worse due to their business practices.
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I despise CHASE! Why pay for Identity Theft Protection if they do not make good on the claims????
Posted by on
Once again here I am fighting with Chase over my money. I will say that within the last 2 1/2-3 months someone has found away to withdraw all of the money out of my account I would say every other pay check. Now prior to me writing this I have had to open 2 claims with the disputes department regarding my funds being stolen from my account. Now I must admit that I am a very inquisitive person and like most people in Michigan I cannot afford to miss a pay check. I wish I could afford it but, I cannot. I repeatedly asked Chase Telephone Bankers how is this possible? How can someone withdraw money from my acct through an ATM without my debit card being present? Might I remind you that the last time this happened I had my debit card in my possession! I always get the same responses...someone must know your pin , someone must have taken your card or I don't know. Chase advised me that they would investigate the issue and send me a letter disclosing their findings within 30 days. 30 days past and this letter never came. I even called Chase back to inquire as to what happened with this investigation. I never received any response.....just a lot of I don't knows and promises to be contacted via mail or phone which never came. Now the previous two times that this has happened Chase did refund my money. But, to me that was not good enough. I am a person that is all about PREVENTION and I didn't want this to happen to me again. With that being said the 2nd time that all of the funds were withdrawn from my acct I requested to have my acct changed. (which sounds like should be procedure for an issue like this...surprisingly it's not all they do is send out new ATM cards) I was told that I would have to go into a Chase Branch to have a new acct put into effect. I was inconvenienced ONCE AGAIN and spent my whole lunch break at a Chase Branch trying to get a new acct where I was met with EVERY EXCUSE in the book as to why I should NOT change my acct . I was told that my account wasn't the issue and that in fact it was my debit card that was used in these transactions and changing the acct wouldn't be useful. I still pressed the issue to have the acct changed and that was when I was told that if I changed my acct it would screw up my direct deposit and Chase wouldn't have an acct to deposit my credits into. With that being said I was convinced to leave the acct the same and assured that since I changed my pin this wouldn't happen again. BUT, persistent me didn't stop there. I even took it upon myself to call Chase yet again and request some form of Identity Theft Protection. ( I wasn't offered this as some form of protocol to victims of fraud or Identity theft...although you would think that they would offer you this protection being that this has happened to a customer of theirs) The young lady informed me that the protection was $11.99. I advised her that being that this was (at that time) the 2nd time this had happened I should receive a few months of this protection for free as a courtesy to me. She told me that she wouldn't be able to honor my request and I took it upon myself to pay for this EXTRA protection to PREVENT any other mishaps in the future.

Well guess what? 2 weeks ago my brother died in a tragic car crash. And with that being said I have been going through a great deal of things with my family. I tried to go to a store to pick up a few items and called to see how much my check was(this was on a Sunday) and guess what? I only had $100 in my acct although I had just gotten paid on Friday!!!! I spoke with a telephone banker who advised me that there was a deposit of $700 pending on my acct! I immediately told her that that was incorrect and to close my acct down and cancel my debit card(which I had) immediately. Spoke with someone Monday to open another claim and they told me I had $400 in my acct. I went to the bank to withdraw the little bit of money I had left to only arrive and find out that my acct was then overdrawn $293!!!!! I bet you are wondering what happened to the $700 deposit? Well come to find out they deposited an empty envelope into the ATM and then withdrew all of my money + the (fake) $700! And you guessed it! CHASE isn't going to give me a DIME of my money back!

Now what I would like to know is that when I deposit a check into the ATM that is over $500 my check is held an add'l 24-48 hrs for the check to clear the bank and on the receipt it will say...$1,000.00 is your balance $200 is your available balance(ready for use until that check fully posts to the acct) BUT, these CRIMINALS can make a deposit and before it posts withdraw all of the funds? How is it that I have a spending limit on my acct of $500 per day and $500 of withdrawals thought the ATM on the weekend BUT, these people withdrew about $1500.00 over the weekend? I would like to know why wasn't I notified of these suspicious transactions on my acct being that I AM PAYING $11.99 for IDENTITY THEFT PROTECTION! Chase is a JOKE! I cannot believe that this has happened to me. I even went as far as to go and file a police report, request that footage be taken from these cameras to prove that it was not me! Chase did pull the tapes and determine that it wasn't me making the withdrawals but, they told me that the person had on a hat so they didn't get a good shot of his face! HELLO, since when does a criminal show his face at an ATM that he knows has video surveillance????? Either way what does that have to do with me???? I have been getting the run around now for 2 weeks. Dealing with the death of my brother I haven't been working so, the 3 days of bereavment pay that I did get from my employer is going to be direct deposited into that acct on Friday and you guessed it! Chase is going to keep it all in fees because that my acct is overdrawn $293.00!

Take it from me DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT bank with's not worth the hassle, the headache, the money or your sanity
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lilydarling on 08/01/2008:
Why are you still with Chase??? I would have closed my account when all that nonsense started.
DebtorBasher on 08/01/2008:
First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your Brother.
This sounds like an "inside" job to me...why else would the be so set in talking you out of opening a new account? They are wrong telling you that your ATM card would still be useful on a new account. That card is for that account and if you closed that account and opened a new one, they would have to give you a new ATM card with it. Or at least change it to match your card. I worked for Chase and I tell people all the time to stay as far away as possible and if they have ANYTHING with the Chase name on it then they should close it, transfer it or do whatever they have to due to get rid of it. It would be best that you change banks altogether. Open a new account with another bank, once it's open you can have your Direct Deposit placed in your new account. Otherwise, I'd suggest you stop your Direct deposit with Chase and get your check until you get a new account with another bank.
Ponie on 08/01/2008:
I think there's a very simple solution to your problem: Stop giving someone your PIN! DB, I can't agree that this would be an 'inside' job. I know there are some in the banking industry who are tempted. Once? Maybe yes. But not twice. The dishonest employee would find another target for the second attempt. Now, if you mean 'inside' job by giving the PIN to a 'trusted' person, I'll agree.
reschust on 09/30/2008:
more like, don't be an idiot and leave a trojan on your damn computer or use a shared computer or save your account access name and password saved in IE, thereby exposing your information to anyone who cared to partake of it. people like you should just cut the ethernet cord completely so that when you're buying knickknacks online from, you don't waste a bank's time and money because you're too fcking stupid to protect your informatoin.
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A Families Last Cry... We despise Chase Home Finance
Posted by on
MENTOR, OHIO -- I will add to the horrible business practices that Chase and First Place Bank have. My husband and I both lost our jobs in the same year about 4 months apart from each other. Amongst other family problems, I began the workout process with our original mortgage company. I was awaiting the final papers from First Place Bank when I receive a letter that my mortgage was sold to JP Morgan Chase. I spent months arguing with Chase that there had to be some type of assistance for my situation. They kept telling the that they don't reduce monthly payments. I understand that but don't you offer some type of assistance.

After 8 months of arguing and attemping to contact every government agency to prevent foreclosure, I received foreclosure paperwork. When I say every agency, I mean every agency: Hope Now, Consumer Credit Counseling, NHS of Greater Cleveland, other mortgage companies, my former mortgage company, just to name a few. I found out that Chase did have programs to help with my specific situation...why am I being discrimanated against? I have no choice but to hire an attorney and a loss mitigation specialist who proceed to call Chase on a daily basis and threaten legal action if they don't help me. I can't be discriminated against if I have the qualifying events that they list. They have helped others with the same circumstances.

So in the 11th hour, Chase finally send the paperwork for the option they chose for me. I didn't even get to negotiate anything. But what do you do when your house has an auction date and your 4 year old will have no home. So here we are 6 months later, I have yet to receive anything from Chase that they are receiving my payments and actually applying them to my account. They REFUSE to send me a mortgage statement. Every time I call they tell me to call the person Bryan who has been assigned to my case.

Guess what he never calls back. No one will give me information regarding my mortgage. So based on some legal advice, I withheld my Nov. payment. NO ONE EVEN CALLED ME TO SEE WHY I NEVER MADE MY PAYMENT. So I did the same with Dec. STILL NO CALLS. My online account states that I haven't made a payment since August. WHERE IS ALL MY MONEY GOING? Today, my only mission was to get information about my loan.

I was hung up on, transferred to a fax machine, told that I needed to call the phantom Bryan, and told that no information was going to be given out. Now I sit in tears, I call back and finally speak to someone who has a heart. She tells me that my payments are making it to my mortgage but she can't explain anything else to me. She can get fired for giving me just that small piece of information. What the hell is that about...its my mortgage? I am so tired of dealing with Chase and I guess I have to take what ever they deal to me because no one will help me not even our own damn government. But I am sure that Chase will be fine and all the top execs will make out with the government bailout money. I guess I write this with the hope that someone who reads this can help. I don't know where else to turn and praying just doesn't seem to help anymore.
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hubbard53 on 12/11/2008:
wait. you're complaining about Chase working out a plan with you to prevent foreclosure? And stopped paying your arranged payments b/c someone didn't call you back?
Anonymous on 12/11/2008:
Oh boy, this is bad. The reason that no one at Chase is talking to you about your account probably because your account has been referred to legal (the next to last step before auction). When you worked out your arrangement you should have signed some form of documentation concerning how, what, when, and for how long that you have to defer your payments, I don't remember exactly what this form is called but it should have required you and your husbands signature. The legal advice you got about skipping your payments was REALLY bad!!! Technically if you had a legal agreement with Chase, you just defaulted on it which would give the bank every justification to proceed with the foreclosure process. I really hope I am wrong on this, but I don't think I am
tnchuck100 on 12/11/2008:
I sympathize with you Mindy. I have also had to deal with Chase on my mother's mortgage. The problems were her fault but attempts were made to correct the problems. We, too, ran into an uncooperative organization. They gave all impressions from total indifference, flat out refusal to discuss the situation to actual pleasure in being difficult.

In our case the house is now abandon and they have done nothing. They won't communicate, they haven't foreclosed. They have done nothing for the last 6 months.

You will probably need an attorney. Good luck.
lobo65 on 12/11/2008:
I can't believe you decided to skip payments.
Suusan B. on 12/11/2008:
It sounds to me like Chase offered you a loan modification so you could keep your home but the offer was made after an auction date was set so that means that the foreclosure process was complete. Chase send your their loan modification offer and you are not in any position to negotiate - - it was a "take it or leave it" offer. This was six months ago and you are now two payments behind because someone told you to stop making your payments - - bad move. This means that you defaulted on the original mortgage and are now in default on the modified mortgage. Your account is obviously being handled by Chase's legal department and that is why they won't provide you a statement of your account. Banks charge through the nose to process a foreclosure and even if a modification is agreed upon "at the 11th hour" the borrower still has to pay all costs and fees associated with the foreclosure proceeding which is where I bet your mortgage payments are going. You obviously received bad legal advice to skip payments and this is not discrimination. Just because you have the "qualifying events" to request a loan modification doesn't mean that the lender will qualify you for a modification. Unless you can come up with a big pile of money I fear that you should consider your home gone as you have now defaulted on two loans.
Disaster Worker on 12/11/2008:
Some excellent posts here! It is so sad when families have a hard time and lose their homes and feel victimized, but to not make scheduled, agreed payments when you have the funds to do so is not right.
Hard Working American on 02/02/2010:
Its not the customers fault they she defaulted in her payments. If you loose your job, the well does run dry. JP Morgan Chase needs to get organized and put together and staff a department that can handle these new types of modification loans. Its a new world we live in, yes they have New and Refinance Loan Departments, but they now have to realize that they need to keep up with the market of Foreclosures, Modifications, Auctions, which they are not prepared at all to handle. Once they realize this, then the situations will get better, and the American People will get assistance. Today if you walk into JP Morgan Chase and ask to speak to the Mortgage Loan Office, they cannot help you with a Loan that could or will be default, they can only help you with Refinance or new loans. Keep in my, refinance loans if you are not upside down which is what JP Morgan and every other fianancial institution now have to come up with new plans, new offers, to help the American People. Is this not what the Bail Out money was for??? Jamie Diamond the CEO, shame on you for not hiring the right people to get this program organized. There is no reason one any customer or person should be put out on the street for uncontrollable circumstances. Are we not helping Haiti, or any other countries that need help, why cannot the Amercian people help each other.
PepperElf on 02/02/2010:
It is also not the fault of the people you owe money to
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StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty Star
Not a good choice for business accounts
Posted by on
Rating: 1/51
ILLINOIS -- Chase’s slogan: “The right relationship is everything”: How would you like your financial institution to work against you when an employee is stealing from you?

Being a female small business owner supporting five employees, the right relationship is everything; the internal relationships with your employees and the relationship with your financial institutions. These relationships can nurture the growth of your business and make you feel as if you have an entire support system in your corner; a support team in place to help elevate you to success and to support you through the trying times of entrepreneurship. I assume this is what JP Morgan Chase wanted us, as a consumer, to feel when they chose this as one of their heartfelt slogans. Now I know their marketing and operations are unrelated.
I had been a Chase account member since 2007, and our “relationship” was satisfactory until it was brought to my attention that unauthorized charges were happening on my account. Upon this knowledge I closed my account in August of 2011 only to learn that Chase then allowed an employee of mine to fraudulently obtain a card on my closed account and run up charges.
As if the discovery of interoffice betrayal was not enough, Chase is making things even more difficult. I have found that Chase has misrepresented themselves in their fight to “stop fraud in its tracks”. There was no “Fraud Monitoring” which is their sophisticated tool to detect abnormal charges. In my case, they were clearly personal charges (Legoland, retail shopping, and child care). They also took money without authorization from my operations account to cover these fraudulent charges and have yet to provide proof of their right to do so. I am still dealing with their “Zero Liability” promise, but its more than a little hard when they’ve taken your money and ignore the written requests they asked for.
For example, when the employee who was fraudulently charging rerouted the bills to her email address, Chase didn’t call me. When Chase saw line after line and page after page of charges inconsistent with a business account they never once called me or wrote to me (over $46,000.00). Then the game came out “oh we closed your “card” when you asked but not your “account”. My request was to close the account and they have audio tape (“this call may be recorded”) which they have said they’d provide a copy of on July 11, 2012, but as of August 30, 2012 no recordings have been received.
In my opinion Chase is only interested in having the “right relationship” with your money as in, they have it and you don’t. Based on my experience, I would recommend any business owner who has any reasonable expectation of their financial institution working with them; steer clear of JP Morgan Chase.
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CUontheFlipSide on 09/14/2012:
This is a tough situation, and I'd hate to be dealing with it myself. Did this employee have legitimate access to the account? Was she (he?) a signer? The problem is that if they were, then they also had the ability to re-open the account, and re-route emails. Since it was you that gave them this access, the bank has no reason to question it.

If your employee did not have legitimate access to the account, then Chase must make you whole. But if they did, then it is a civil matter, and your recourse is through the courts, and against the individual. For this much money, you should really have a lawyer involved, if you don't already.
trmn8r on 09/14/2012:
Hopefully you are pursuing action against the employee who is the root cause of the problem. Somehow they got pretty complete access to your account, and as the reply above points out that could be legitimate or not legitimate.

I have a business account with Chase, but I have no business. I use my card at all kinds of establishments - it never occurred to me nor do I recall being told that would be monitored.

In the past, the only fraud detection I have come up against was when I travelled between 2 or more states within a day and made several charges.

I have both a business and non-business card with Chase, and I love them. Opened about the same time you did. I'm sorry you had this problem. Good luck pursuing the right culprit, whichever it is.
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Small businesses should leave Chase bank
Posted by on
COVINA, CALIFORNIA -- This is to show everyone how Morgan Stanly Chase Bank cares and helps small businesses. You have seen their advertisements on how they love small business and how they help small businesses. Helping small businesses my A@#$% . My story will shed some light on this matter. I own a small manufacturing company manufacturing writing instruments and personal care products in southern California. We used to have over 25 employees but are down to 11 mainly due to the imported product from China. Several times, I was approached by Chinese businessmen wanting to move my production to China and get a lower price, but I wanted our products to be molded and manufactured in our factory in the good old USA. Though I knew it was financially not a smart decision.

I have lost money in the past two years but things are beginning to look better but I am still not making money, so I decided to sell my industrial building we occupy. I have about $600,000 equity in it and Chase is the mortgage holder. So I asked Chase to let me slide and not make the monthly payment for a few months until the building is sold. Then you will get your money plus interest, and this would really help my company a lot. After submitting tons of paperwork including my next years projected sales and profits!!! , a Ms. Kathy called and informed me that Chase would not go along with my need and that they would have to foreclose. I said you will get your money for sure plus interest, I just lowered my building to $1.3 million (down from $1.9 million 4 years ago), my mortgage is around $760,000; you will get your money first, so there is no risk for you. You are guaranteed to get your money, guaranteed. So what is your problem? I am one of those small businesses that you say you love to help. Her answer was for me not to pay other bills and to pay Chase instead, otherwise they will foreclose.

I was so revolted by her mannerism that I hung up on her. This woman had no feelings about small business, 11 employees losing their jobs, 11 additional manufacturing jobs lost. She did not give a damn. She wanted her $5000 per month.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is JP MORGAN CHASE, a bank that loves to help small businesses succeed, the one that we, tax payers, bailed out; and this is how they return the favor. SHAME ON YOU. I WILL SPEND 100’s of hours pasting this on web sites. It will not have any effect on a giant like you, so you will not give a damn, but it will make me feel better.

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Venice09 on 07/06/2011:
The building has been on the market for four years? I feel for your predicament, but I'm not sure you can guarantee anything at this point.
hi on 07/07/2011:
Venice ia right........the building hasn't sold for 4 years and by your own post your business is failing. Chase is there to make money, not 'go down with the ship' so to say.
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Lacking Knowledge of Policy and communications
Posted by on
PARADISE VALLEY, ARIZONA -- I transferred my account over to Chase. My mistake in trusting them. I had fraud on one of my accounts (not their fault). I was advised to CLOSE that account and reopen a NEW account. I had direct deposit linked to that old account. I was assured this would be monitored and handled.

I had a employee tell me he would 'take care of everything' with my direct deposit. I come in, fill out the form to be submitted to the state. Turns out the state NEVER received the form! Deposits were returned "account closed".I had checks returned, not paid because of this. Which left marks on my credit.

With all the employees running around playing stupid, even one saying, " I told you we could not take care of your direct deposit, that you had to go through the court". Please....Just admitt you all dropped the ball! YOU are fully ABLE of doing this for your customers, in fact I have a copy of the form your employee signed and supposedly submitted to the state....the truth is you lack customer service, you lack communications. You want to LIE and you got caught. Lets also say "Its against our policy to put any apology in writing" . Chase Branch Manager also told me She does not keep documentation on file that clients sign. I find that truly hard to believe that you do not keep a document on file that pertains to a customers account. I will file a complaint.


More from the author:

Chase returned a Item (not paying) on my account $34.00. Then the Merchant tried to run the debit again two days later(makes sense, they want their money), Chase then decides to pay the item, charging me another $34.00.

I did go into the branch and tell them "look, either pay the item the first time or don't. Chase purposely made money off me to benefit them."

Wait....I recall another bank doing this and their being a huge lawsuit
a few years ago.
**Lets also remind them, I would not have had all the fees (above) if Chase would not have screwed up my direct deposit information and placed this in someone elses account!!!
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Fufu487 on 05/09/2011:
Was the manager saying the forms were not kept at all? Or did she say they weren't kept in the branch? I believe most banks archive the signed forms in a separate undisclosed location.
trmn8r on 05/09/2011:
The last part is standard, where an item can be presented more than once by the payee's bank, and an overdraft occurs each time.

The fraud part is a bit hard to understand - it sounds like because fraud was involved, you were unable to change the direct deposit yourself, and the bank dropped the ball. They should look into this and refund those overdrafts if they were at fault.
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Sure Miss WAMU
Posted by on
I had been a WAMU customer since 1997. I as were many was told that Chase would continue WAMU's practices until I learned the hard way differently.

My first experience was unexpected NSF's showing up in my account. Come to find out... Chase representatives out of the blue decided to place a hold on my payroll checks without letting me know. I make my deposits at the ATM how would I have known? I have worked for my company for 10 years, never a problem. I understand in this economic climate how the banks could be nervous. However, the industry I work in is fortunately recession proof. So then I was told no overdraft protection. Great! With WAMU I had $1000.00 in overdraft protection. So I was encouraged to link my savings account to my checking for overdraft protection. OK so I did. I then started seeing these credits every once in a while on my checking account. I thought, isn't this nice I wonder what rewards program I signed up for? Then one day I checked my savings statement, savings was almost depleted! The little credits I was seeing were transfers from my savings, however I wasn't overdrawn. Apparently they transfer and charge a fee of $10.00 on PENDING transactions!!! So I quickly canceled that!

I played the float one weekend. I had several pending transactions on a Thursday of which my balance covered, these will usually clear by Monday night. I made a large purchase Sunday of which I did not have funds, I figured I would have until Wednesday night. I made a large deposit Tuesday morning and requested cash back and was told my account was negative and I could not have any cash.. ??? Come to find out the large purchase cleared on Monday night, OK I gambled and lost so 1 NSF fee right? Wrong!!! Contrary to what I was told before, (Checks clear in the order of when they are presented, *see first experience) Chases policy is to clear the highest dollar items first stacking them to the smallest dollar items. So they are intentionally setting up their customers for NSF fees!!!! (I would say that is predatory) What a way to bite the hand that feeds you!

When speaking with customer service and supervisors I mentioned that a law was past that banks can no longer exercise these types of predatory business practices. Their reply is after March 2010 some policies will change. (So if your a customer hold on to your seat till the ride is over !!!!) In the conversations with Chase representatives I am continuously told I have the right to close my accounts. *(Bet that's good for business!) I am now shopping the market for a friendlier common sense bank or credit union. So let me sum this up by saying several dollars in fees in the last few months! (Bet Chase is proud of that!)

Didn't the government give WAMU to Chase? Shouldn't we as tax payers receive a little better treatment than - after several dollars in fees to be told "close your account"? (Bet they didn't disclose this to the government either!)
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Anonymous on 02/10/2010:
You admit that you don't balance your account, you don't know what your balance is, and you try to beat the float. How is any of this the bank's fault?
bcd on 02/10/2010:
“Didn't the government give WAMU to Chase?”

No, the FDIC sold WaMu’s subsidiaries to JPMorgan Chase for about two billion dollars.

Maybe they’re holding your deposits because your account is not in good standing. Your savings account was tapped in an attempt to avoid overdrafts. Don’t spend money before deposits are credited to your account.
Inat on 02/10/2010:
"played the float" - that's like gambling, right?
I know a lot of people say they rearrage stuff to make people get fees but if I could attach a photo, I would show my online statement that shows the exact opposite - deposit goes first, then the debits.
Anonymous on 02/10/2010:
"I make my deposits at the ATM how would I have known? "

Even if you make deposits through the ATM, your account isn't credited right away. The first $100 is released, but the rest of the check still has to post to the account for the deposit to be effective. This is one reason to make sure you have funds in the account, first, before spending.

"So I was encouraged to link my savings account to my checking for overdraft protection. OK so I did. I then started seeing these credits every once in a while on my checking account."

Why are you surprised that your saving account would be depleted? You linked it for overdraft protection. Meaning, when you overdraft, to cover it, money is pulled from your savings account. Where did you think those "credits" were coming from?

"I played the float one weekend"

Never play the float game. That's like playing Russian roulette. You don't know if it will go in your favor and it most likely, does not. That, in itself, is your own fault. You can't get away with the float game anymore.

If you keep a register, it won't matter how things are "reordered" or rearranged." In your book, they're already gone. I keep seeing people say... "oh the bank rearranges things to maximize fees." I keep a check register... banks don't get my money because I don't let them.

"So they are intentionally setting up their customers for NSF fees!!!! "

No, they don't. It may seem that way because you don't seem to be aware of how a checking account works. But, once you learn, overdraft fees will be a thing of the past for you.

Do you have online banking? I use it primarily for as an extra thing for checks and balances... but, using a check register or Quicken or some way of keeping track of your credits and debits will help you in the long run of getting away from overdraft fees whether you chose to stay with Chase or not. Bank's offer many ways of helping to keep your balances in check... if you don't want to use the old fashioned way of paper and pencil.

PepperElf on 02/10/2010:
especially for atm deposits.
the bank has to verify the cash you deposited is accurate

and don't many ATMs have notices that say "funds deposited may not be available for immediate withdrawal" etc?
Anonymous on 02/10/2010:
"funds deposited may not be available for immediate withdrawal"

Yes, Pepper... on the receipt.
And on a sign right by the ATM.
Anonymous on 02/10/2010:
I agree Chase's overdraft policy qualifies as predatory lending. I'd also say like is the case with all predatory lenders the borrower is a willing participant.

Dump CHASE. Find yourself a community bank or credit union with more favorable terms and who will appreciate your business. You'll be glad you did.
wkchjz on 08/01/2010:
If I were you, I would close all the accounts. JPMorgan Chase IS PREDATORY. How do you think they got billion dollars to buy the remains of WAMU. They have cheated so many other customers before that to get that couple of billion dollars. Just don't get involved with those guys, they have a lot of money, connected lawyers and in general are super unscrupulous and danger. Close the account and find another bank. Or don't use banks, just credit unions.
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Disney Stories by Chase Consumer Banking, 1044 McLean Ave, Yonkers, NY 10704
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YONKERS, NY, NEW YORK -- I attempted to open a checking account at 1044 McLean Ave, Yonkers, NY 10704. I was sent in the mail a Gift Card for $100 for opening the account. I started out with $100 of my own. The account never opened. I was told that different names showed up with my social security number. I asked them what names? I knew why that had happened. They said their dept was "handling it". They needed a "verification letter" from Social Security which was brought to the branch and faxed over to "the dept". I was told it would be taken care of within 48 hours from the next business day. When that day came, they never received the letter faxed over by the branch.I called all over the place, using their 800 number, trying to find someone to tell me where this letter was since a confirmation of the fax was provided. I was asked "What dept does that fax # belong to?" I didn't know. Security, I assumed. They'd snort,like pigs."You don't even know what dept it is". And they do? The letter had disappeared. I asked a supervisor (800#,not the branch)to please fax a note to the number in question and ask them what happened to the letter. She was silent for 5 minutes. Then she spoke. "The account is closed. It is closed because I said so". Yes...there is a hell and it's usually found in a bank. I made more calls and spoke to more supervisors. By the way, calling the branch was no pleasant experience. The banker, who knew who I was, said "uh huh uh huh" to my asking what was going on.
After about a week of this intrigue, I spoke to still another supervisor named Sarah. She actually wanted me to relay my complaint to the branch manager, a young man. I said no, please, I need someone interoffice to handle this. It's out in left field. So I told her everything. By the way, during this entire time, I was told by 5 people that the $100 gift card deposited in my account per notification email while the account was "closed" (I was also told the account was in a "restricted" status) was mailed to my house the week before. The branch bankers told me this, and so did cust serv at the 800 number. Sarah told me, we took the $100.00 OUT and you will not get it unless we reopen the account. As for the lost letter, EVERYTHING THAT GETS MAILED OVER ON FRIDAY GETS DISINTIGRATED. Lie #2: You didn't have your account # on it, that's why it disintigrated. Excuse me, I'm laughing at these people. Next thing they'll tell me it was destroyed by a lasergun. Then, I went to the bank to ask for a confirmation that a letter had been faxed from that branch. My mother went in first. She came out and said "Don't go in there. They are going to call the police on you". lolololol. I can't take it.........I had been sick with the flu and was wearing jeans but had a closed wool short bathrobe on, I HAD to take care of this problem. I couldn't believe what Mom had told me. It couldn't be because of how I was dressed because I hadn't walked in there yet. I went in through a side door. I had to tell them that checking the fax machine would bring up a confirmation # that would verify once and for all that there was a faxed letter. They were useless. They wouldn't give me a piece of note paper. Meantime, the "uh huh" banker was smirking and took her friend into a lounge so they could talk about me. I went home empty handed, no confirmation letter from the bank that there had been a fax that was apparently lost. I made another call to another supervisor. This time I spoke to the branch manager. He said "we have security cameras. This is a case of he said - she said. The bottom line is, you are not going to have an account with Chase. You have FIVE different profiles that came up with your social security #. Then I remembered. I was the victim of identity theft in 2004 and Chase used to be Washington Mutual where one of my stolen checks had shown up. Did I get a chance to explain this? No. I said something to this man to really rattle his brains, and it's not worth repeating here, but I think there could be some truth to it. His response: THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE. THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Now how many times have you told the truth to someone only to hear "THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE". You'd think by now something more original would enter their heads. So...that is my complaint. One week in hell with Chase Manhattan. By the way, I did some research on them. In 2007, a Yonkers Branch was found to have connections with very seedy investments and were under fire by the Criminal Court. So the Washington Mutual crowd, along with my identity theft, make me wonder why any of us use banks to begin with. We'd be safer with it under the mattress. They all stick together, no one sticks up for the consumer. ANOTHER ONE OF THEIR CORPORATE IDIOMS: THAT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.
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goduke on 02/06/2010:
I understand your frustration, but why would you not proactively bring that up in the first place when they said they saw multiple names with your SS#? Instead, you don't say anything, and then start making a huge production about a gift card. I can understand why the bank would think you are running a scam.
jktshff1 on 02/06/2010:
Identity theft would be hard to "forget". You knew you had problems and should have spelled them out to the bank in the first place.
Anonymous on 02/06/2010:
Jkt + 10.

Anonymous on 02/06/2010:
They would have been more than willing to work with you, had you (OP) been upfront with them in the first place. Just keep that in mind when opening new accounts with banks. Tell them of your identity theft right then and there, then waiting for them to discover issues with your social security number.
DebtorBasher on 02/06/2010:
Funny that whatever you said to the guy that rattled his brains, was not worth posting on here. If Chase told you that you will never have an account with's a blessing and you should thank them because, believe me what you went through is nothing compared to what they will put you through if you were a customer of theirs.
bcd on 02/06/2010:
In the first paragraph of your review you stated that when you initially attempted to open the account you knew why there was more than one name attached to your SS number. Then, much later in the process you claim to have suddenly remembered.

Good credit is not required to open a checking account. Wow, your credit must be really bad.
bankzilla on 02/07/2010:
I didn't find out until I did my research that Washington Mutual had become Chase. What you don't understand is that they were adamant about not giving me any information about what they had found. And they were telling me different versions - 1.different names came up 2. Identity Theft (I thought it was current because it has happened more than once) and I called the police and reported it. 3. There is a matter with my name that was legal and done before a court with all proper documentation that I could have shown them. They were very vague about the entire situation. Why wouldn't they want my business? They sent me the gift card.
I am no better or worse than anyone else. Obviously they think they are above it all, and considering what I found on them that took place in the criminal court in 2007, perhaps some people have to dump on others.
bankzilla on 02/07/2010:
My credit is not really bad. They were going to open it. And they knew me from the year when I decided to go to another bank. There is nothing dodgy about what I did. I've received invitations from 2 other banks that know me also. I put high level security freezes on the 3 credit reports. I finally was told there were 5 "profiles" on me which is not true because I checked with another bank. You don't understand that identify theft can occur more than once. If I didn't know any of you I'd think you work for that joint.
bankzilla on 02/07/2010:
I was very honest and straighforward with the bankers in this branch. They rushed through everything and didn't want to be bothered. I am not a big depositer. Not liking a customer is not a reason to ban their business. I said straightoutj - "If you don't want my business, tell me." But they just stood there and said "We do want your business. We need that letter". A lot of you are assuming things that are not quite accurate. I still think one or more of you works for that joint. I was told also that I had "bounced chedks". Then I was told that the few times it happened, it didn't make a difference. The issue was the Social Security Letter. I should not have had to talk to so many people. Their conduct was INEXCUSABLE. YOU DON'T TREAT PEOPLE LIKE THIS. I am going to call the Social Security Office and the 3 Credit Reporting Bureaus. I never did anything to deserve this treatment. Chase has some dodgey history itself. Do a google on them.
Skye on 02/07/2010:
Since you were, unfortunately, a victim of identity theft, wouldn't you have all the documentation already, to prove this?? You should have told them up front about what had happened. To them, having your social security number show up with a different name, is of course a big red flag.

As for that gift card, they are sending that out every day to millions of people, you weren't specifically chosen.

Look at the bright side, you are probably better off not doing business with them.
Anonymous on 02/07/2010:
" I still think one or more of you works for that joint"

Why do you come up with that conclusion?
PepperElf on 02/07/2010:
bkk - because they ALL think that it's impossible for another human being to disagree with them unless they're employees.

it's as unoriginal as it is inaccurate
Anonymous on 02/07/2010:
Well, yes, I know that Pepper... I just want to see what the OP has to say to back up that claim... as always.
PepperElf on 02/07/2010:
I doubt the OP will reply
other than accusing you - and now me - of being an employee of the bank.
bankzilla on 02/09/2010:
It seems they don't want anyone's business. If you read the other complaints about Chase Manhattan, you will find that most have pulled out their money and ran. They are very difficult to deal with. They have destroyed people with their assumptions and crazy conclusions and the action they have taken based on a dozen different stories from a dozen different bankers and/or customer service people. Look at it this way, any bank that has to offer you $100 to open an account must be pretty desperate for customers.
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Unprovoked Rate Increase & Debtors Revolt
Posted by on
NEW YORK -- Dear Sirs or Madams:

In reviewing my account # **** **** **** **** (member since 2003) , I notice that my APR has been increased to 18.24% from 12.24%, a full 6%. I am unsure when or why it was raised from the agreed on 11.99%. This was done without any prior notification or explanation for the increase, despite my having never been late on a payment, and usually paying those above the minimum. In the seven years I have been with Chase, I have acted in good faith and abided by the terms and conditions as outlined in our original contract.

By this action I view Chase Credit Card Services to be either in error or in breach.
I consider this increase, if intentional, as tantamount to theft, breach of faith, tortuous interference with a contract and should this affect my credit rating, an egregious libeling of my name.

I have worked very hard to maintain near perfect credit status my entire adult life and will seek ALL legal remedies at my disposal (including prosecution for material damages) to see the that it is maintained and my good name protected and respected.

It is regrettable if JP Morgan deems it nonobligatory to abide the same lawful standards and ethics as those of its customers and competitors.

The actions of JP Morgan Chase in particular, your subsidiaries, and counterparts in the financial industry, seem determined to destroy the economy of the nation that birthed it.

I intend to avoid being taken victim in the wholesale larcenies being perpetrated in the banking industry. I have prepared for this occasion.

By acting in a criminal fashion, arbitrarily attempting to raise my cost of living by more than $100 a month at the height of an economic crisis without any service to show for it, value added for it, or cause to do so, you have reset the playing field and forced me to participate with you the same level of ruthlessness, underhandedness, and back dealing that you have yourselves employed. You have also provided me an opportunity to participate in the constitutionally mandated revolt that has been provoked by the over-reaching greed of U.S. banking cartels. Thank you for the singular opportunity to serve my country in that way.

I have written to give Chase this single opportunity to restore my account to its previous status and original APR of 11.9%. Should you decide otherwise, or until such time as that is accomplished, you can expect further remittance and communication from me to cease.

I am confident that my character and reputation will be sufficient to see me through the coming years without the services your company has provided to date and am prepared to sever my relationship with JP Morgan Chase effective immediately.

Your next step as an Executive at JP Morgan is to take a look at my seven year history with Chase, in light of 25+ years of perfect payment history, and make the decision. Do you want seven more, or do you want to write down $17,950.00 of good money reliably at work in the marketplace today? Ask Mr. Dimon what is better in his opinion?: Same size piece of pie? Or no pie at all?

I have lived up to my obligations with you, my other creditors, and all my relations private and professional. I will continue to do so according to the rule of law and basic civic decency. I have always believed in fair and honest dealing and lived so that my word is as good as my contract. My credit history reflects this ethic and it is with the full weight of that 25+ year history that I promise you: if the exact terms I have stated are not met, you will have forfeited the principal amount of my outstanding balance and all future interest thereof. I say this without rancor, compunction or equivocation, as a statement of simple fact to assist in your decision and calculations.

It is my sincere admonishment that as a company, and individuals employed with JP Morgan Chase, you will return to those same principles which once allowed you to fuel prosperity and innovation in the past, and turn away from the self destructive futility evinced in these dishonorable tactics.

As potentially one of thousands of small cut's assigned for your new year, I eagerly await your reply and thank you for the opportunity to address this pressing social issue in a direct and personal manner.

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Anonymous on 01/17/2010:
They are not in breach. It is in your customer agreement that they can raise the interest rate at anytimne. I understand with all of the new laws that have been or will be going into effect this year that they will not be able to act this hastily any more. You'll have to see about using the opt out option. Which means you can opt out of the increase in interest but you will have to close your card, pay as agreed, and not use the card anymore.
tnchuck100 on 01/17/2010:
I think you have done an excellent job of laying out your case to them. It is true the agreement states they can change the terms at any time for any reason. So breach is not really an issue. You seem to indicate they never gave you the ability to "opt out". That is one point of contention here.

Given the same set of circumstances you have presented here I, too, would give them the same choice. That is restore the original interest rate or lose it all. To hell with the credit score. Although my credit score is 800+ at this point in my life I no longer need a good credit score.

Many have posted similarly to this and few come back to give us a follow up update. I hope you will choose to return and give us an update on their response, if any.
Anonymous on 01/17/2010:
As well written as this post is, it is just plain silly. If you don't like their terms, transfer the balance (or better yet pay it off) and close the card. When you stop making your payment, not only will you lose this battle, but any other credit you have outstanding will become more expensive.
Anonymous on 01/17/2010:
"In the seven years I have been with Chase, I have acted in good faith and abided by the terms and conditions as outlined in our original contract."

If so you should also have seen that the original contract allows them to increase your interest rate if they choose to do so. Your drawn-out, eloquent complaint will not change what you agreed to when you opened the account.
Lncfr on 01/18/2010:
Thank you for your comments. I am aware of the full consequences to this decision. This is an act of intentional civil disobedience. I will return and keep the forum apprised of developments as they transpire though I am already certain of, and prepared for, the outcome. The agreement I allegedly “signed” listed the reasons for which my rate could be changed due to delinquencies or failures on my part.

What is the point of elucidating these conditions if adherence to them has no effect? It is an intentional obfuscation of the intent of the agreement. In other words a scam.
Your parents just lost their retirements and your neighbors their homes because of the ethos revealed in JP Morgan Chase's tactics. That they then bury blanket statements reserving the "legal" right to raise rates for any reason in abstruse fine print, does not make it MORALLY correct. Just transferring balances to other institutions serves to reinforce the bad behavior of these lending institutions. It perpetuates and exacerbates the problem.

This is an intentional push-back. We are fighting back and this is hard as we can punch.

If my other creditors follow suit they will be met with the same response. This is certain as lies from politicians.

The only language these institutions REALLY speak is pluses and minuses. I am fully prepared for this. I already own nothing. am already "homeless" living in a trailer behind a van as a matter of choice. I am not poor. In all aspects of my life I have sufficiency.

This account has gone delinquent as of the 18th. It will be passed to collections in due course. It will be "written down" in the legally mandated time-frame. It will be sold to a collection agency which will lose it's principal in the acquisition and it will undergo the process again at a further devalued rate. This will continue until the statute of limitations in my state run out (TX 4 ½ years, do the math at $430 per month) at which time if I choose, I could begin the process of rebuilding my credit. I am disinclined to believe that will be the case, but those are the realities of the situation.

I'm gong to preach now so if you have gotten the technical picture that you came for you can stop here. What follows is an allegory to describe my frame of mind on this issue.

Imagine that you have agreed to enter a chess game for $100 dollars per piece captured. The game commences and proceeds normally as the players castle up and setup their strategies. In this example the chess board and pieces represent your labor and time. Now imagine that after several games of normal play (seven years at Chase's table in this case) the opponent decides midway through to change the rules so that if he makes a capture he gets another move. This rule change comes unprovoked when you already have considerable money in the game. At that exact moment the other party has made his intent clear to impoverish you through his unfair advantage. It has stopped being a fair contest and become a protracted charade, a theft, of your time and energy. If you react by trying to adapt to the change in “rules” you are validating the attempt and guaranteed to lose everything (eventually), as the rule changes increase in frequency and impact.

By changing the social contract against the spirit of accepted standards of play the counter party has indicated that they are willing to play in an arena where the rules can be altered or broken. They have reset the terms by which you can conduct yourself as well. My choice is to pick up the board and my pieces and try to beat the cheating opponent to death and take what ever he has. It's nothing less than he intended for me, just faster. If they can change the rules, so can you. If you value yours and your future progeny's lives, you will.

These banks have hijacked your “government”, your courts, and your monetary system. Yes you will be kicked out of the casino. That's okay, you could use some air.

I refuse to finance my or your enslavement further. JP Morgan Chase is an OWNER of the federal reserve. The record profits of the Fed, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, etc are the life's blood of the thousands who are suffering devastating consequences as a direct result of their unfettered greed and blind stupidity of these credit card companies and the banks who own them. They are intentionally choking the life out your country. They are destroying the value of your time and energy, intentionally suppressing the credit markets which touch millions of real humans and thousands of small business. The rest they have pawned to Asia.

Face it, you do not have any power over the value of the currency in your pocket. That means that the value of your time and labor are being dictated to you by people who's only motive is obscene profit and “value” on shares. I intend to become a corrosive agent to that “value” and hope to catalyze an exponential increase to that effect in those who read this account. JP Morgan Chase cares nothing for the ethics that keep you bound to your agreements as long as YOU continue to have them.

Even if you can not see that your hand is on the tiller of the boat headed for the falls...If you are unable to turn away yourself, because of synthetic FEAR mass marketed into you which keeps you paying them, protecting your standing in a system that is designed to betray you, to fail; if this resonates in your heart, with the awakening spirits, and minds of humanity demanding an end to financial tyranny, then forward, re-post, excerpt, steal and claim as your own this posting and the rest of the thread.

GET UP! STAND UP! Fight back with the weapons they are using against you! The money!

I intend to divert a portion of the amount of my former payment to JP Morgan (who didn't need it bad enough to take me at my word) to increasing the payment on a smaller personal debt to assist that Michigan family in basic survival. It is an unsolicited increase but one that will be greatly appreciated in the hard days ahead.

To quote a famous product of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan; “Let me be perfectly clear” rather than being a question of my ability to pay this increase, or accept an opt-out, or transfer my balances, this action is about my unwillingness to continue letting a destructive force in the social fabric of humanity succeed in degrading the value of my time, energy and self respect.

Thank you again for your kind advice, consideration of my story, and thoughtful critique of my writing. You have afforded me a beachhead from which to re-state and clarify my intentions in this action.

My statement to JP Morgan Chase and all of the other institutions who have aligned with these practices can be summed up in two word unfit to print in dignified and polite forum such as this... but I'll bet you a hundred a piece you can guess what they are.
tnchuck100 on 01/18/2010:
Well put, Lncfr. I follow your concepts 100%. However, I must warn you there are some commenters here who lack the ability to understand the destructive greed our banking industry is perpetrating on the working class. Many will add facts of their own to support an attack on a victimized customer. They are so accustomed to being stepped on by the banks for so long they consider it the norm and should be accepted without question.
Anonymous on 01/18/2010:
Lncfr, your choice of words reminds me of those online rant generators that use 100 dollar words when 50 cent words will work just fine.

Decades ago, I had a professor tell me the true test of one's quality of education was the ability to speak or write clearly and CONCISELY in any situation.

I got his point and quit using 100 dollar words in my papers and oral tests.
Lncfr on 01/18/2010:
$100 words? You make my point! There are only 2 words in there that would have rated fifty-cents when I was a kid. "Obfuscate" which I like cause it's fun to pronounce and abstruse which sent me to the dictionary the first time I heard a gangster use the word. If your professor convinced you to "dumb it down" then he did his job. The banksters are counting on a simple populous. They have underestimated us. This online rant generator sat writing until the sun peaked up and I hit send after 6 am. This is a big deal to me and I am expressing myself as thoroughly and clearly as I can. The concise bit is in the first and sixth paragraphs and then I warn the reader that I'm going into an allegorical dissertation and offer an opt-out for the rest of the article.

What your comment represents is a subtle ad-homonym attack, impugning the quality of my education to distract from the uncomfortable realities presented. And you are correct, normally my better educated (over-seas) partner would have proofed the document before I submitted it. I would have caught the mistake in the
Anonymous on 01/18/2010:
I rest my case. I do, however, appreciate your assistance in helping me prove said case.
waterbury01 on 01/18/2010:
I like you raven. Your pretty smart and funny.
Anonymous on 01/18/2010:
*BLUSH* why, thank you, kind one. *offers to share Wild Turkey*
Lncfr on 01/18/2010:
Continued from above: (Sorry for the over lap,I accidentally hit send)
I would have caught the mistake where “their” should have read ” the” and pluralized “word” to “words” in the last paragraph. You got me though! I never had any professors of my own though I consult to several. I am a very poor typist and I was literally writing all night long. What's more, this is really the way I talk. Though my background is largely technical, I descend from the likes of Woodrow Wilson, The founder of the Second Baptist Church in Georgia, and the man who brought Golf from Scotland. So you could say bloviation is baked in. Regards to your professor I'm truly grateful for your comments and agree whole heartedly!
Homeless on the continent conquered by my forefathers,

Anonymous on 01/18/2010:
Ya know, lncfr, even though I really do not agree with you, I LIKE YOU!! Stick around, you could be a fun addition here if you so choose.
waterbury01 on 01/18/2010:
Only if you have some Rock Star to go with the Wild Turkey.
Lncfr on 01/18/2010:
raven2002 I rated your comments about my post as highly useful. You would be derelict in duties if you agreed with me. Thanks for the opportunity to warm up the gear. This is only one of several projects I'm involved in but if I can help to awaken people to what is being done to them and use the real tools at their disposal then I feel my time is well spent.
Anonymous on 01/18/2010:
EWW! Rock Star, Monster, Red Bull, etc NASTY NASTY NASTY
Anonymous on 01/18/2010:
LOL, I think I'm in luv with silly Lncfr...may I call you Beelzebub, kind sir?
Slimjim on 01/18/2010:
It was a long complaint and thread so excuse me if this has been touched on, but the issue would simply be if you were notified ahead of time to opt out or not Lncfr. Instead of writing such a time consuming letter, why not just call them first and ask when such notification was sent to you? While even if they didn't, I guess they could say they did and you just didn't open it or it was lost in the mail, whatever. Fact is, they can raise your rate and you are far from alone. Almost every credit card holder out there today has had some sort of raise hike recently. My BOA (believe it or not) was one of the few that didn't get me for a couple points extra last year, and I have fine credit.
Anonymous on 01/18/2010:
lncfr, if someone could explain to me how on God's green earth a cc company can arbitrarily raise interest rates simply 'cause they can' and how that makes any sort of sense simply 'cause its in the t/c' I think I might actually keel over and faint.

I'm doubtful anything will transpire out of this battle with chase other than additional stress for you, however I applaud your efforts. do keep us posted. some of us do understand and can see beyond the 'cause we can so we do what we want' b.s.
PepperElf on 01/18/2010:
I'm assuming rates are going up because a lot of other things are going up too
and it's a bit of insurance against people overspending and then suddenly not paying when they get surprised by being fired etc.

best thing to remember is that the rates will never matter if you pay your bill in full
Lncfr on 01/18/2010:
Of course they claim to have mailed an opt-out and no we never received it. They mail those things out bulk rate and there is no way to prove that it was ever sent or received. (I might get ground mail 3-4 times a year)

A similar scenario occurred a couple of years ago with Capital One on an account that was "guaranteed to never go up". They ended up calling and apologizing, restored our apr and credit limit. It holds to date.

The executive who called from Chase, Christin Blanchardt (sp?) Offered me an opt-out at a lower APR than the 6% increase but still higher than our original terms 11.99 (which is still too high anyway, but I AGREED to it) and 18% for future purchases. They did not take me at my word. When they stopped playing fair so did I.

I am simply escalating this to it's logical conclusion, in the fastest way possible, that causes JP Morgan Chase to lose money. A lot of it. Almost $18,000. I would have happily continued to proceed with the original agreement if they had met my terms. I gave fair and explicit warning. They expected me to compromise because most people do. They miscalculated.

Yes they are going to destroy my FICA rating. This will have zero impact on my ability to borrow as much money as I will ever need to borrow because I have established my credibility with the real human beings and the businesses we own and support together in our community. There are dozens of businesses with which I am affiliated and hundreds of people around the country that view my word as my contract and my reputation as my resume. I have their full faith and trust, so to speak, as a result of years of consistent, fair dealing. I am sought after in my industry and very good at what I do. There is more to life that your credit score. The sooner people wake up to that reality, the sooner we can begin the task of re-building the real credibility of our nation.

Raven2002's JOB (and others) is to diminish the impact of what I am doing here. By appearing affable and intelligent while calling me cute names like “silly” and “Beelzebub” and treating me like his/her pet-novel poster for the week. This is to be expected. Mine is the reaction that the banking industry most fears. Raven2002's role is to try to pour water on any sparks that might jump out of the ring. They can I'll afford to have people stand on real principles. I think he/she is going to need a bigger bucket.

What I am doing is taking my 25+ years of perfect payment history and drawing a line in the DIRT. I am saying that I accept the consequences of my actions with open eyes and a full heart. I am not seeking to have my ego stroked nor am I looking for advice as to how to save me from the effects of my drastic decision. I am following the historical example of people who have reached the limit of their ability to endure oppression by financial “elites” aan I am setting a precedent for those who follow in OUR time.

Just do the simple math in 4 ½ years the time allowed for collection of unsecured debt will have expired. I will have saved over $20,640 dollars in payments to Chase on a debt of apx $17,500. If I had accepted their “compromise” and paid only the minimum (something I have rarely done) then at the end of that period I would still owe the majority of the principal sum. What do I stand to gain by accepting an unfair compromise? The right to send an ever increasing portion of my income to a company that has acted in a deplorable and dishonorable fashion? No thanks. You say "you'll be hounded by debt collectors" Do I seem like the kind of person who shrinks from controversy or confrontation? I am looking forward to it. Seriously considering a you tube channel. I am actively exploiting social networks which I have avoided using until this moment in time.

Keep-em coming Raven2002, you sets-em-up I'll knocks-em-down. Lncfr are the consonants in my middle name Lance+ fr (For Revolt) To draw out your metaphor you can think of me as the bringer of the spear. Your forum is the pitchfork and my words the torch!
markanizer on 01/21/2010:
Chase did the same thing to me and I did not complain because they are within the law. What made me mad was when they actually lowered my credit limit without cause. When I called them to find out what happened they said I opened too many cards too fast. I only have one other card so it must be when I added my family as authorized users that made the increase happen. Becareful.
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