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Online payment sent 4 times resulting in account overdrawn, no money available to me
Posted by Riverknight on 08/14/2010
GARDEN GROVE, CALIFORNIA -- I recently began using Chase online banking to pay bills and on Aug. 12 I set up an automatic payment to my Chase credit card for the following day,(Friday the 13th). When I went to the bank to withdraw money from my account there was no money and I was overdrawn by over one thousand dollars!
My paycheck had just been deposited, and there was no way I should have been overdrawn. I checked my account online and discovered that my payment for 540.00 had been sent 4 times, a total of 2160.00 had been withdrawn and sent as payment to my credit card, causing my account to be overdrawn. I immediately called my bank, they said to call the credit card company that the payment had been sent to. I was on the phone for over an hour, the credit card company said there was nothing they could do because the payment(s) were being processed, the bank told me there was nothing they could do either. I went to the bank on Saturday, and they told me there was nothing they could do, they were sorry, but it was up to the credit card company to reverse the payments and that it would take up to 5 days, (2-3 working days, and it was now Saturday).
I currently have no access to any funds because of the overdraft on my account, the payment to the credit card is not accessible to me because it is an overdraft protection account in which I do not have a card for.
It is my daughter's birthday, I have no gas in my vehicle, no food and the bank is offering no help, and no explanation for the error that THEIR ONLINE BANKING CAUSED!! DO NOT USE CHASE ONLINE BANKING!!
They told me they would try to reverse the charges for the overdrafts, but could not guarantee it.
UNBELIEVABLE!!! ON MONDAY I WILL BE SWITCHING BANKS.

     
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Posted by Skye on 2010-08-14:
Wow, that's a big mess for you. You are definately doing the right thing, by switching banks on Monday morning.
Posted by Helpful on 2010-08-15:
The review never did state clearly whether the overpayment was the fault of the bank or the OP, by possibly incorrectly setting up the autopayment option.
Posted by grandma005 on 2010-08-15:
That is why you should not set up auto payments. I canceled my bill payment with Chase because they would take the payment out of the wrong checking account which caused overdraft fees. Try Bank of America they have a really good system. Never had any trouble with them.
Posted by oldisgood on 2010-08-15:
I have used Chase's bill pay for over 5 years and have never had a problem. I guess I am just lucky. I think Chases' system is great and rely on it totally.
Posted by grandma005 on 2010-08-15:
Do you have two checking accounts with Chase? They will make payment from the one that you have little money in and overdraft you.
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Do Not Do Business With CHASE BANK
Posted by Cahousewife on 06/03/2010
BEAUMONT, CALIFORNIA -- Chase froze my husband’s account because of an identity theft alert on his account. Chase never called or alerted my husband about the status of his account. The bank refused to allow him to make a deposit or cash any government checks. Which is apparently against the law in this situation. The bank required for him to prove his identity with social security which he did but the account remained frozen. The bank, however, continued to charge fees for all of the electronic transactions that were preset with online banking. They also considered allowing an electronic debit for 999,999,999.00. Over a week has gone by and they remain determined to collect the nsf fees that they tacked on from all of this mess before they will even consider to open a new account. Their policies don’t make sense. The customer service is appalling and I would never trust or recommend any business affiliated with Chase.
     
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Posted by Alain on 2010-06-04:
Have you talked to them personally (face to face) about this? It seems like they should be able to work something out with you and your husband since you're the victims of a crime.
Posted by skelly39 on 2010-06-04:
That doesn't make any sense. If they froze his account and won't allow him to deposit money, why would they allow electronic transactions to come out? If they don't refund you for all those NSF fees, I'd contact the OCC and file a complaint if I were you.
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Lazy Customer Service
Posted by Beliza on 04/08/2010
WHITE PLAINS, NEW YORK -- I just want to complain about Chase Bank, Rosedale Branch in White Plains, NY.
The customer service is not professional and very unpleasant.
Every time I am go there with the company deposits I feel very unpleasant atmosphere and sarcastic comments from the cashiers. They are very slow and the waiting time has been very extended. The are very disrespectful and have no respect to the customers. I heart other people waiting on line complaining about they service.
I feel like we have here some discrimination issue.
My advise is to stay away from this branch. I just to have an account with them but no more.
     
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Sure Miss WAMU
Posted by Thismessisaplace on 02/09/2010
I had been a WAMU customer since 1997. I as were many was told that Chase would continue WAMU's practices until I learned the hard way differently.

My first experience was unexpected NSF's showing up in my account. Come to find out... Chase representatives out of the blue decided to place a hold on my payroll checks without letting me know. I make my deposits at the ATM how would I have known? I have worked for my company for 10 years, never a problem. I understand in this economic climate how the banks could be nervous. However, the industry I work in is fortunately recession proof. So then I was told no overdraft protection. Great! With WAMU I had $1000.00 in overdraft protection. So I was encouraged to link my savings account to my checking for overdraft protection. Ok so I did. I then started seeing these credits every once in a while on my checking account. I thought, isn't this nice I wonder what rewards program I signed up for? Then one day I checked my savings statement, savings was almost depleted! The little credits I was seeing were transfers from my savings, however I wasn't overdrawn. Apparently they transfer and charge a fee of $10.00 on PENDING transactions!!! So I quickly canceled that!

I played the float one weekend. I had several pending transactions on a Thursday of which my balance covered, these will usually clear by Monday night. I made a large purchase Sunday of which I did not have funds, I figured I would have until Wednesday night. I made a large deposit Tuesday morning and requested cash back and was told my account was negative and I could not have any cash.. ??? Come to find out the large purchase cleared on Monday night, ok I gambled and lost so 1 NSF fee right? Wrong!!! Contrary to what I was told before, (Checks clear in the order of when they are presented, *see first experience) Chases policy is to clear the highest dollar items first stacking them to the smallest dollar items. So they are intentionally setting up their customers for NSF fees!!!! (I would say that is predatory) What a way to bite the hand that feeds you!

When speaking with customer service and supervisors I mentioned that a law was past that banks can no longer exercise these types of predatory business practices. Their reply is after March 2010 some policies will change. (So if your a customer hold on to your seat till the ride is over !!!!) In the conversations with Chase representatives I am continuously told I have the right to close my accounts. *(Bet that's good for business!) I am now shopping the market for a friendlier common sense bank or credit union. So let me sum this up by saying several dollars in fees in the last few months! (Bet Chase is proud of that!)

Didn't the government give WAMU to Chase? Shouldn't we as tax payers receive a little better treatment than - after several dollars in fees to be told "close your account"? (Bet they didn't disclose this to the government either!)

     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-10:
You admit that you don't balance your account, you don't know what your balance is, and you try to beat the float. How is any of this the bank's fault?
Posted by bcd on 2010-02-10:
“Didn't the government give WAMU to Chase?”

No, the FDIC sold WaMu’s subsidiaries to JPMorgan Chase for about two billion dollars.

Maybe they’re holding your deposits because your account is not in good standing. Your savings account was tapped in an attempt to avoid overdrafts. Don’t spend money before deposits are credited to your account.
Posted by Inat on 2010-02-10:
"played the float" - thats like gambling, right?
I know a lot of people say they rearrage stuff to make people get fees but if I could attach a photo, I would show my online statement that shows the exact opposite - deposit goes first, then the debits.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-10:
"I make my deposits at the ATM how would I have known? "

Even if you make deposits through the ATM, your account isn't credited right away. The first $100 is released, but the rest of the check still has to post to the account for the deposit to be effective. This is one reason to make sure you have funds in the account, first, before spending.

"So I was encouraged to link my savings account to my checking for overdraft protection. Ok so I did. I then started seeing these credits every once in a while on my checking account."

Why are you surprised that your saving account would be depleted? You linked it for overdraft protection. Meaning, when you overdraft, to cover it, money is pulled from your savings account. Where did you think those "credits" were coming from?

"I played the float one weekend"

Never play the float game. That's like playing Russian roulette. You don't know if it will go in your favor and it most likely, does not. That, in itself, is your own fault. You can't get away with the float game anymore.

If you keep a register, it won't matter how things are "reordered" or rearranged." In your book, they're already gone. I keep seeing people say... "oh the bank rearranges things to maximize fees." I keep a check register... banks don't get my money because I don't let them.

"So they are intentionally setting up their customers for NSF fees!!!! "

No, they don't. It may seem that way because you don't seem to be aware of how a checking account works. But, once you learn, overdraft fees will be a thing of the past for you.

Do you have online banking? I use it primarily for as an extra thing for checks and balances... but, using a check register or Quicken or some way of keeping track of your credits and debits will help you in the long run of getting away from overdraft fees whether you chose to stay with Chase or not. Bank's offer many ways of helping to keep your balances in check... if you don't want to use the old fashioned way of paper and pencil.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-02-10:
especially for atm deposits.
the bank has to verify the cash you deposited is accurate

and don't many ATMs have notices that say "funds deposited may not be available for immediate withdrawal" etc?
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-10:
"funds deposited may not be available for immediate withdrawal"

Yes, Pepper... on the receipt.
And on a sign right by the ATM.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-10:
I agree Chase's overdraft policy qualifies as predatory lending. I'd also say like is the case with all predatory lenders the borrower is a willing participant.

Dump CHASE. Find yourself a community bank or credit union with more favorable terms and who will appreciate your business. You'll be glad you did.
Posted by wkchjz on 2010-08-01:
If I were you, I would close all the accounts. JPMorgan Chase IS PREDATORY. How do you think they got billion dollars to buy the remains of WAMU. They have cheated so many other customers before that to get that couple of billion dollars. Just don't get involved with those guys, they have a lot of money, connected lawyers and in general are super unscrupulous and danger. Close the account and find another bank. Or don't use banks, just credit unions.
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Disney Stories by Chase Consumer Banking, 1044 McLean Ave, Yonkers, NY 10704
Posted by Bankzilla on 02/06/2010
YONKERS, NY, NEW YORK -- I attempted to open a checking account at 1044 McLean Ave, Yonkers, NY 10704. I was sent in the mail a Gift Card for $100 for opening the account. I started out with $100 of my own. The account never opened. I was told that different names showed up with my social security number. I asked them what names? I knew why that had happened. They said their dept was "handling it". They needed a "verification letter" from Social Security which was brought to the branch and faxed over to "the dept". I was told it would be taken care of within 48 hours from the next business day. When that day came, they never received the letter faxed over by the branch.I called all over the place, using their 800 number, trying to find someone to tell me where this letter was since a confirmation of the fax was provided. I was asked "What dept does that fax # belong to?" I didn't know. Security, I assumed. They'd snort,like pigs."You don't even know what dept it is". And they do? The letter had disappeared. I asked a supervisor (800#,not the branch)to please fax a note to the number in question and ask them what happened to the letter. She was silent for 5 minutes. Then she spoke. "The account is closed. It is closed because I said so". Yes...there is a hell and it's usually found in a bank. I made more calls and spoke to more supervisors. By the way, calling the branch was no pleasant experience. The banker, who knew who I was, said "uh huh uh huh" to my asking what was going on.
After about a week of this intrigue, I spoke to still another supervisor named Sarah. She actually wanted me to relay my complaint to the branch manager, a young man. I said no, please, I need someone interoffice to handle this. It's out in left field. So I told her everything. By the way, during this entire time, I was told by 5 people that the $100 gift card deposited in my account per notification email while the account was "closed" (I was also told the account was in a "restricted" status) was mailed to my house the week before. The branch bankers told me this, and so did cust serv at the 800 number. Sarah told me, we took the $100.00 OUT and you will not get it unless we reopen the account. As for the lost letter, EVERYTHING THAT GETS MAILED OVER ON FRIDAY GETS DISINTIGRATED. Lie #2: You didn't have your account # on it, that's why it disintigrated. Excuse me, I'm laughing at these people. Next thing they'll tell me it was destroyed by a lasergun. Then, I went to the bank to ask for a confirmation that a letter had been faxed from that branch. My mother went in first. She came out and said "Don't go in there. They are going to call the police on you". lolololol. I can't take it.........I had been sick with the flu and was wearing jeans but had a closed wool short bathrobe on, I HAD to take care of this problem. I couldn't believe what Mom had told me. It couldn't be because of how I was dressed because I hadn't walked in there yet. I went in through a side door. I had to tell them that checking the fax machine would bring up a confirmation # that would verify once and for all that there was a faxed letter. They were useless. They wouldn't give me a piece of note paper. Meantime, the "uh huh" banker was smirking and took her friend into a lounge so they could talk about me. I went home empty handed, no confirmation letter from the bank that there had been a fax that was apparently lost. I made another call to another supervisor. This time I spoke to the branch manager. He said "we have security cameras. This is a case of he said - she said. The bottom line is, you are not going to have an account with Chase. You have FIVE different profiles that came up with your social security #. Then I remembered. I was the victim of identity theft in 2004 and Chase used to be Washington Mutual where one of my stolen checks had shown up. Did I get a chance to explain this? No. I said something to this man to really rattle his brains, and it's not worth repeating here, but I think there could be some truth to it. His response: THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE. THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Now how many times have you told the truth to someone only to hear "THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE". You'd think by now something more original would enter their heads. So...that is my complaint. One week in hell with Chase Manhattan. By the way, I did some research on them. In 2007, a Yonkers Branch was found to have connections with very seedy investments and were under fire by the Criminal Court. So the Washington Mutual crowd, along with my identity theft, make me wonder why any of us use banks to begin with. We'd be safer with it under the mattress. They all stick together, no one sticks up for the consumer. ANOTHER ONE OF THEIR CORPORATE IDIOMS: THAT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.
     
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Posted by goduke on 2010-02-06:
I understand your frustration, but why would you not proactively bring that up in the first place when they said they saw multiple names with your SS#? Instead, you don't say anything, and then start making a huge production about a gift card. I can understand why the bank would think you are running a scam.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-02-06:
Identity theft would be hard to "forget". You knew you had problems and should have spelled them out to the bank in the first place.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-06:
Jkt + 10.

Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-06:
They would have been more than willing to work with you, had you (OP) been upfront with them in the first place. Just keep that in mind when opening new accounts with banks. Tell them of your identity theft right then and there, then waiting for them to discover issues with your social security number.
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2010-02-06:
Funny that whatever you said to the guy that rattled his brains, was not worth posting on here. If Chase told you that you will never have an account with them...it's a blessing and you should thank them because, believe me what you went through is nothing compared to what they will put you through if you were a customer of theirs.
Posted by bcd on 2010-02-06:
In the first paragraph of your review you stated that when you initially attempted to open the account you knew why there was more than one name attached to your SS number. Then, much later in the process you claim to have suddenly remembered.

Good credit is not required to open a checking account. Wow, your credit must be really bad.
Posted by bankzilla on 2010-02-07:
I didn't find out until I did my research that Washington Mutual had become Chase. What you don't understand is that they were adamant about not giving me any information about what they had found. And they were telling me different versions - 1.different names came up 2. Identity Theft (I thought it was current because it has happened more than once) and I called the police and reported it. 3. There is a matter with my name that was legal and done before a court with all proper documentation that I could have shown them. They were very vague about the entire situation. Why wouldn't they want my business? They sent me the gift card.
I am no better or worse than anyone else. Obviously they think they are above it all, and considering what I found on them that took place in the criminal court in 2007, perhaps some people have to dump on others.
Posted by bankzilla on 2010-02-07:
My credit is not really bad. They were going to open it. And they knew me from the year when I decided to go to another bank. There is nothing dodgy about what I did. I've received invitations from 2 other banks that know me also. I put high level security freezes on the 3 credit reports. I finally was told there were 5 "profiles" on me which is not true because I checked with another bank. You don't understand that identify theft can occur more than once. If I didn't know any of you I'd think you work for that joint.
Posted by bankzilla on 2010-02-07:
I was very honest and straighforward with the bankers in this branch. They rushed through everything and didn't want to be bothered. I am not a big depositer. Not liking a customer is not a reason to ban their business. I said straightoutj - "If you don't want my business, tell me." But they just stood there and said "We do want your business. We need that letter". A lot of you are assuming things that are not quite accurate. I still think one or more of you works for that joint. I was told also that I had "bounced chedks". Then I was told that the few times it happened, it didn't make a difference. The issue was the Social Security Letter. I should not have had to talk to so many people. Their conduct was INEXCUSABLE. YOU DON'T TREAT PEOPLE LIKE THIS. I am going to call the Social Security Office and the 3 Credit Reporting Bureaus. I never did anything to deserve this treatment. Chase has some dodgey history itself. Do a google on them.
Posted by Skye on 2010-02-07:
Since you were, unfortunately, a victim of identity theft, wouldn't you have all the documentation already, to prove this?? You should of told them up front about what had happened. To them, having your social security number show up with a different name, is of course a big red flag.

As for that gift card, they are sending that out every day to millions of people, you weren't specifically chosen.

Look at the bright side, you are probably better off not doing business with them.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-07:
" I still think one or more of you works for that joint"

Why do you come up with that conclusion?
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-02-07:
bkk - because they ALL think that it's impossible for another human being to disagree with them unless they're employees.

it's as unoriginal as it is inaccurate
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-07:
Well, yes, I know that Pepper... I just want to see what the OP has to say to back up that claim... as always.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-02-07:
i doubt the OP will reply
other than accusing you - and now me - of being an employee of the bank.
Posted by bankzilla on 2010-02-09:
It seems they don't want anyone's business. If you read the other complaints about Chase Manhattan, you will find that most have pulled out their money and ran. They are very difficult to deal with. They have destroyed people with their assumptions and crazy conclusions and the action they have taken based on a dozen different stories from a dozen different bankers and/or customer service people. Look at it this way, any bank that has to offer you $100 to open an account must be pretty desperate for customers.
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Unprovoked Rate Increase & Debtors Revolt
Posted by Lncfr on 01/17/2010
NEW YORK -- Dear Sirs or Madams:

In reviewing my account # **** **** **** **** (member since 2003) , I notice that my APR has been increased to 18.24% from 12.24%, a full 6%. I am unsure when or why it was raised from the agreed on 11.99%. This was done without any prior notification or explanation for the increase, despite my having never been late on a payment, and usually paying those above the minimum. In the seven years I have been with Chase, I have acted in good faith and abided by the terms and conditions as outlined in our original contract.

By this action I view Chase Credit Card Services to be either in error or in breach.
I consider this increase, if intentional, as tantamount to theft, breach of faith, tortuous interference with a contract and should this affect my credit rating, an egregious libeling of my name.

I have worked very hard to maintain near perfect credit status my entire adult life and will seek ALL legal remedies at my disposal (including prosecution for material damages) to see the that it is maintained and my good name protected and respected.

It is regrettable if JP Morgan deems it nonobligatory to abide the same lawful standards and ethics as those of its customers and competitors.

The actions of JP Morgan Chase in particular, your subsidiaries, and counterparts in the financial industry, seem determined to destroy the economy of the nation that birthed it.

I intend to avoid being taken victim in the wholesale larcenies being perpetrated in the banking industry. I have prepared for this occasion.

By acting in a criminal fashion, arbitrarily attempting to raise my cost of living by more than $100 a month at the height of an economic crisis without any service to show for it, value added for it, or cause to do so, you have reset the playing field and forced me to participate with you the same level of ruthlessness, underhandedness, and back dealing that you have yourselves employed. You have also provided me an opportunity to participate in the constitutionally mandated revolt that has been provoked by the over-reaching greed of U.S. banking cartels. Thank you for the singular opportunity to serve my country in that way.

I have written to give Chase this single opportunity to restore my account to its previous status and original APR of 11.9%. Should you decide otherwise, or until such time as that is accomplished, you can expect further remittance and communication from me to cease.

I am confident that my character and reputation will be sufficient to see me through the coming years without the services your company has provided to date and am prepared to sever my relationship with JP Morgan Chase effective immediately.

Your next step as an Executive at JP Morgan is to take a look at my seven year history with Chase, in light of 25+ years of perfect payment history, and make the decision. Do you want seven more, or do you want to write down $17,950.00 of good money reliably at work in the marketplace today? Ask Mr. Dimon what is better in his opinion?: Same size piece of pie? Or no pie at all?

I have lived up to my obligations with you, my other creditors, and all my relations private and professional. I will continue to do so according to the rule of law and basic civic decency. I have always believed in fair and honest dealing and lived so that my word is as good as my contract. My credit history reflects this ethic and it is with the full weight of that 25+ year history that I promise you: if the exact terms I have stated are not met, you will have forfeited the principal amount of my outstanding balance and all future interest thereof. I say this without rancor, compunction or equivocation, as a statement of simple fact to assist in your decision and calculations.

It is my sincere admonishment that as a company, and individuals employed with JP Morgan Chase, you will return to those same principles which once allowed you to fuel prosperity and innovation in the past, and turn away from the self destructive futility evinced in these dishonorable tactics.

As potentially one of thousands of small cut's assigned for your new year, I eagerly await your reply and thank you for the opportunity to address this pressing social issue in a direct and personal manner.

Sincerely,
     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-17:
They are not in breach. It is in your customer agreement that they can raise the interest rate at anytimne. I understand with all of the new laws that have been or will be going into effect this year that they will not be able to act this hastily any more. You'll have to see about using the opt out option. Which means you can opt out of the increase in interest but you will have to close your card, pay as agreed, and not use the card anymore.
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2010-01-17:
I think you have done an excellent job of laying out your case to them. It is true the agreement states they can change the terms at any time for any reason. So breach is not really an issue. You seem to indicate they never gave you the ability to "opt out". That is one point of contention here.

Given the same set of circumstances you have presented here I, too, would give them the same choice. That is restore the original interest rate or lose it all. To hell with the credit score. Although my credit score is 800+ at this point in my life I no longer need a good credit score.

Many have posted similarly to this and few come back to give us a follow up update. I hope you will choose to return and give us an update on their response, if any.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-17:
As well written as this post is, it is just plain silly. If you don't like their terms, transfer the balance (or better yet pay it off) and close the card. When you stop making your payment, not only will you lose this battle, but any other credit you have outstanding will become more expensive.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-17:
"In the seven years I have been with Chase, I have acted in good faith and abided by the terms and conditions as outlined in our original contract."

If so you should also have seen that the original contract allows them to increase your interest rate if they choose to do so. Your drawn-out, eloquent complaint will not change what you agreed to when you opened the account.
Posted by Lncfr on 2010-01-18:
Thank you for your comments. I am aware of the full consequences to this decision. This is an act of intentional civil disobedience. I will return and keep the forum apprised of developments as they transpire though I am already certain of, and prepared for, the outcome. The agreement I allegedly “signed” listed the reasons for which my rate could be changed due to delinquencies or failures on my part.

What is the point of elucidating these conditions if adherence to them has no effect? It is an intentional obfuscation of the intent of the agreement. In other words a scam.
Your parents just lost their retirements and your neighbors their homes because of the ethos revealed in JP Morgan Chase's tactics. That they then bury blanket statements reserving the "legal" right to raise rates for any reason in abstruse fine print, does not make it MORALLY correct. Just transferring balances to other institutions serves to reinforce the bad behavior of these lending institutions. It perpetuates and exacerbates the problem.

This is an intentional push-back. We are fighting back and this is hard as we can punch.

If my other creditors follow suit they will be met with the same response. This is certain as lies from politicians.

The only language these institutions REALLY speak is pluses and minuses. I am fully prepared for this. I already own nothing. am already "homeless" living in a trailer behind a van as a matter of choice. I am not poor. In all aspects of my life I have sufficiency.

This account has gone delinquent as of the 18th. It will be passed to collections in due course. It will be "written down" in the legally mandated time-frame. It will be sold to a collection agency which will lose it's principal in the acquisition and it will undergo the process again at a further devalued rate. This will continue until the statute of limitations in my state run out (TX 4 ½ years, do the math at $430 per month) at which time if I choose, I could begin the process of rebuilding my credit. I am disinclined to believe that will be the case, but those are the realities of the situation.

I'm gong to preach now so if you have gotten the technical picture that you came for you can stop here. What follows is an allegory to describe my frame of mind on this issue.

Imagine that you have agreed to enter a chess game for $100 dollars per piece captured. The game commences and proceeds normally as the players castle up and setup their strategies. In this example the chess board and pieces represent your labor and time. Now imagine that after several games of normal play (seven years at Chase's table in this case) the opponent decides midway through to change the rules so that if he makes a capture he gets another move. This rule change comes unprovoked when you already have considerable money in the game. At that exact moment the other party has made his intent clear to impoverish you through his unfair advantage. It has stopped being a fair contest and become a protracted charade, a theft, of your time and energy. If you react by trying to adapt to the change in “rules” you are validating the attempt and guaranteed to lose everything (eventually), as the rule changes increase in frequency and impact.

By changing the social contract against the spirit of accepted standards of play the counter party has indicated that they are willing to play in an arena where the rules can be altered or broken. They have reset the terms by which you can conduct yourself as well. My choice is to pick up the board and my pieces and try to beat the cheating opponent to death and take what ever he has. It's nothing less than he intended for me, just faster. If they can change the rules, so can you. If you value yours and your future progeny's lives, you will.

These banks have hijacked your “government”, your courts, and your monetary system. Yes you will be kicked out of the casino. That's okay, you could use some air.

I refuse to finance my or your enslavement further. JP Morgan Chase is an OWNER of the federal reserve. The record profits of the Fed, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, etc are the life's blood of the thousands who are suffering devastating consequences as a direct result of their unfettered greed and blind stupidity of these credit card companies and the banks who own them. They are intentionally choking the life out your country. They are destroying the value of your time and energy, intentionally suppressing the credit markets which touch millions of real humans and thousands of small business. The rest they have pawned to Asia.
STOP THEM!

Face it, you do not have any power over the value of the currency in your pocket. That means that the value of your time and labor are being dictated to you by people who's only motive is obscene profit and “value” on shares. I intend to become a corrosive agent to that “value” and hope to catalyze an exponential increase to that effect in those who read this account. JP Morgan Chase cares nothing for the ethics that keep you bound to your agreements as long as YOU continue to have them.

Even if you can not see that your hand is on the tiller of the boat headed for the falls...If you are unable to turn away yourself, because of synthetic FEAR mass marketed into you which keeps you paying them, protecting your standing in a system that is designed to betray you, to fail; if this resonates in your heart, with the awakening spirits, and minds of humanity demanding an end to financial tyranny, then forward, re-post, excerpt, steal and claim as your own this posting and the rest of the thread.

GET UP! STAND UP! Fight back with the weapons they are using against you! The money!

I intend to divert a portion of the amount of my former payment to JP Morgan (who didn't need it bad enough to take me at my word) to increasing the payment on a smaller personal debt to assist that Michigan family in basic survival. It is an unsolicited increase but one that will be greatly appreciated in the hard days ahead.

To quote a famous product of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan; “Let me be perfectly clear” rather than being a question of my ability to pay this increase, or accept an opt-out, or transfer my balances, this action is about my unwillingness to continue letting a destructive force in the social fabric of humanity succeed in degrading the value of my time, energy and self respect.

Thank you again for your kind advice, consideration of my story, and thoughtful critique of my writing. You have afforded me a beachhead from which to re-state and clarify my intentions in this action.

My statement to JP Morgan Chase and all of the other institutions who have aligned with these practices can be summed up in two word unfit to print in dignified and polite forum such as this... but I'll bet you a hundred a piece you can guess what they are.
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2010-01-18:
Well put, Lncfr. I follow your concepts 100%. However, I must warn you there are some commenters here who lack the ability to understand the destructive greed our banking industry is perpetrating on the working class. Many will add facts of their own to support an attack on a victimized customer. They are so accustomed to being stepped on by the banks for so long they consider it the norm and should be accepted without question.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-18:
Lncfr, your choice of words reminds me of those online rant generators that use 100 dollar words when 50 cent words will work just fine.

Decades ago, I had a professor tell me the true test of one's quality of education was the ability to speak or write clearly and CONCISELY in any situation.

I got his point and quit using 100 dollar words in my papers and oral tests.
Posted by Lncfr on 2010-01-18:
$100 words? You make my point! There are only 2 words in there that would have rated fifty-cents when I was a kid. "Obfuscate" which I like cause it's fun to pronounce and abstruse which sent me to the dictionary the first time I heard a gangster use the word. If your professor convinced you to "dumb it down" then he did his job. The banksters are counting on a simple populous. They have underestimated us. This online rant generator sat writing until the sun peaked up and I hit send after 6 am. This is a big deal to me and I am expressing myself as thoroughly and clearly as I can. The concise bit is in the first and sixth paragraphs and then I warn the reader that I'm going into an allegorical dissertation and offer an opt-out for the rest of the article.

What your comment represents is a subtle ad-homonym attack, impugning the quality of my education to distract from the uncomfortable realities presented. And you are correct, normally my better educated (over-seas) partner would have proofed the document before I submitted it. I would have caught the mistake in the
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-18:
I rest my case. I do, however, appreciate your assistance in helping me prove said case.
Posted by waterbury01 on 2010-01-18:
I like you raven. Your pretty smart and funny.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-18:
*BLUSH* why, thank you, kind one. *offers to share Wild Turkey*
Posted by Lncfr on 2010-01-18:
Continued from above: (Sorry for the over lap,I accidentally hit send)
I would have caught the mistake where “their” should have read ” the” and pluralized “word” to “words” in the last paragraph. You got me though! I never had any professors of my own though I consult to several. I am a very poor typist and I was literally writing all night long. What's more, this is really the way I talk. Though my background is largely technical, I descend from the likes of Woodrow Wilson, The founder of the Second Baptist Church in Georgia, and the man who brought Golf from Scotland. So you could say bloviation is baked in. Regards to your professor I'm truly grateful for your comments and agree whole heartedly!
Homeless on the continent conquered by my forefathers,

L
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-18:
Ya know, lncfr, even though I really do not agree with you, I LIKE YOU!! Stick around, you could be a fun addition here if you so choose.
Posted by waterbury01 on 2010-01-18:
Only if you have some Rock Star to go with the Wild Turkey.
Posted by Lncfr on 2010-01-18:
raven2002 I rated your comments about my post as highly useful. You would be derelict in duties if you agreed with me. Thanks for the opportunity to warm up the gear. This is only one of several projects I'm involved in but if I can help to awaken people to what is being done to them and use the real tools at their disposal then I feel my time is well spent.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-18:
EWW! Rock Star, Monster, Red Bull, etc NASTY NASTY NASTY
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-18:
LOL, I think I'm in luv with silly Lncfr...may I call you Beelzebub, kind sir?
Posted by Slimjim on 2010-01-18:
It was a long complaint and thread so excuse me if this has been touched on, but the issue would simply be if you were notified ahead of time to opt out or not Lncfr. Instead of writing such a time consuming letter, why not just call them first and ask when such notification was sent to you? While even if they didn't, I guess they could say they did and you just didn't open it or it was lost in the mail, whatever. Fact is, they can raise your rate and you are far from alone. Almost every credit card holder out there today has had some sort of raise hike recently. My BOA (believe it or not) was one of the few that didn't get me for a couple points extra last year, and I have fine credit.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-18:
lncfr, if someone could explain to me how on God's green earth a cc company can arbitrarily raise interest rates simply 'cause they can' and how that makes any sort of sense simply 'cause its in the t/c' I think I might actually keel over and faint.

I'm doubtful anything will transpire out of this battle with chase other than additional stress for you, however I applaud your efforts. do keep us posted. some of us do understand and can see beyond the 'cause we can so we do what we want' b.s.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-01-18:
i'm assuming rates are going up because a lot of other things are going up too
and it's a bit of insurance against people overspending and then suddenly not paying when they get surprised by being fired etc.

best thing to remember is that the rates will never matter if you pay your bill in full
Posted by Lncfr on 2010-01-18:
Of course they claim to have mailed an opt-out and no we never received it. They mail those things out bulk rate and there is no way to prove that it was ever sent or received. (I might get ground mail 3-4 times a year)

A similar scenario occurred a couple of years ago with Capital One on an account that was "guaranteed to never go up". They ended up calling and apologizing, restored our apr and credit limit. It holds to date.

The executive who called from Chase, Christin Blanchardt (sp?) Offered me an opt-out at a lower APR than the 6% increase but still higher than our original terms 11.99 (which is still too high anyway, but I AGREED to it) and 18% for future purchases. They did not take me at my word. When they stopped playing fair so did I.

I am simply escalating this to it's logical conclusion, in the fastest way possible, that causes JP Morgan Chase to lose money. A lot of it. Almost $18,000. I would have happily continued to proceed with the original agreement if they had met my terms. I gave fair and explicit warning. They expected me to compromise because most people do. They miscalculated.

Yes they are going to destroy my FICA rating. This will have zero impact on my ability to borrow as much money as I will ever need to borrow because I have established my credibility with the real human beings and the businesses we own and support together in our community. There are dozens of businesses with which I am affiliated and hundreds of people around the country that view my word as my contract and my reputation as my resume. I have their full faith and trust, so to speak, as a result of years of consistent, fair dealing. I am sought after in my industry and very good at what I do. There is more to life that your credit score. The sooner people wake up to that reality, the sooner we can begin the task of re-building the real credibility of our nation.

Raven2002's JOB (and others) is to diminish the impact of what I am doing here. By appearing affable and intelligent while calling me cute names like “silly” and “Beelzebub” and treating me like his/her pet-novel poster for the week. This is to be expected. Mine is the reaction that the banking industry most fears. Raven2002's role is to try to pour water on any sparks that might jump out of the ring. They can Ill afford to have people stand on real principles. I think he/she is going to need a bigger bucket.

What I am doing is taking my 25+ years of perfect payment history and drawing a line in the DIRT. I am saying that I accept the consequences of my actions with open eyes and a full heart. I am not seeking to have my ego stroked nor am I looking for advice as to how to save me from the effects of my drastic decision. I am following the historical example of people who have reached the limit of their ability to endure oppression by financial “elites” aan I am setting a precedent for those who follow in OUR time.

Just do the simple math in 4 ½ years the time allowed for collection of unsecured debt will have expired. I will have saved over $20,640 dollars in payments to Chase on a debt of apx $17,500. If I had accepted their “compromise” and paid only the minimum (something I have rarely done) then at the end of that period I would still owe the majority of the principal sum. What do I stand to gain by accepting an unfair compromise? The right to send an ever increasing portion of my income to a company that has acted in a deplorable and dishonorable fashion? No thanks. You say "you'll be hounded by debt collectors" Do I seem like the kind of person who shrinks from controversy or confrontation? I am looking forward to it. Seriously considering a you tube channel. I am actively exploiting social networks which I have avoided using until this moment in time.

Keep-em coming Raven2002, you sets-em-up I'll knocks-em-down. Lncfr are the consonants in my middle name Lance+ fr (For Revolt) To draw out your metaphor you can think of me as the bringer of the spear. Your forum is the pitchfork and my words the torch!
Posted by markanizer on 2010-01-21:
Chase did the same thing to me and I did not complain because they are within the law. What made me mad was when they actually lowered my credit limit without cause. When I called them to find out what happened they said I opened too many cards too fast. I only have one other card so it must be when I added my family as authorized users that made the increase happen. Becareful.
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Chase Got The Gold Mine And I Get The Shaft
Posted by Havgun on 01/14/2010
J P Morgan Chase received 25 billion in TAXPAYERS bailout money. I had a credit card with them for many years with a 5.99% rate. Never no late payments. They then decided to raise my rate to over 10 percent. I called and complained but it just fell on deaf ears. So I decided to pay them off. I had a balance of over 4900 dollars. My balance went to zero but I had 33.29 cent in accrued interest for 11 days. I called to see if they would waive it and I was basically told to get lost. I am sure at least 33.29 cent was my money that went to them in bailout funds of which all they have done is hoard it like the greedy banks that they are. I can only say even if the 33 bucks was legit the 5.99 to over 10% was just a way for them to force me to close my account of which I was always an outstanding customer. So to JP Morgan Chase I can only say goodbye and good riddance. And no matter how many offers come my way from them later on which I am sure they will.

They can put it where the sun don't shine. As for our Congress you are all idiots for not stipulating what the banks could and could not do with our money. Obviously they sure the hell aren't lending any of it out!!!!
     
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Posted by skelly39 on 2010-01-14:
Don't they have a grace period?
Posted by memoryx57 on 2010-01-14:
credit cards don't have a grace period..
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-14:
"J P Morgan Chase received 25 billion in TAXPAYERS bailout money."

What does that have to do with your issue?

"What is the bail out money supposed to be used for? "
Because it was used to save the bank(s) from going under due to all their bad paper when borrowers wouldn't/couldn't pay back the loan agreements they signed for.

Chase has, since then, paid back the bailout.
The bailout has nothing to do with your issue.

Posted by skelly39 on 2010-01-14:
memory-Some of my credit cards (and I have plenty) give you a grace period for paying it off so you are not charged interest if you pay it off within a statement cycle. I'm wondering if Chase is one of those that doesn't have that, but some do.
Posted by memoryx57 on 2010-01-14:
bearkat, I somewhat agree, however I think what galls most of the people on this site about the banks is that they took bailout money and then, in essence tried or did screw most of their customers. Yes, people borrowed more money than they could afford BUT the banks knew full well that it was too much of a burden on the folks they were lending to and it was chancy at best if they would be able to pay it back. They got greedy, gambled and lost. Then whined to the feds and were loaned money WHEN THEY needed it. So I believe there's plenty of blame to go around and it's not all on the borrowers..Millions of people lost jobs thru no fault of their own...
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-14:
Absolutely memoryx57.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-14:
Memory, I agree with you. These corporate banks are like bigs in a trough. Im a limo driver and Ive driven around quite a few executives, chase being one of our accounts. They spend thousands and thousands on car service to trek their asses around.....Take the billions in bailaout, and THEN screw thousands of people who already in a financial crises as it is, they want to increase their interest rate. Chase is an evil corporation. The greediest of the greedy, if you ask me. I will never ever ever get anything with the Chase logo on it EVER again. Even if the economy stabilizes. Instead of Chase trying to HELP the people in this crises, they thought it was necessary to INCREASE interest rates, and minimum amount dues, thinking that people are just going to say "okay!" and pay them. They wouold rather see people go into bankruptcy and not get a DIME back, than try to help them. This goes to show the true side of corporations. I for one, will be sure to never ever ever have my name on anything with a Chase logo again. Thousands of other people will agree with me.
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My Debit Card is not a Credit Card
Posted by Ayogeo on 10/26/2009
I do not have a credit card with JP Morgan Chase, why does my debit card act like one? When I was with Washington Mutual if a card had no funds then transactions would be denied, I had been in the negative with an insufficient funds fee that was assessed, and now 6 days later a transaction was allowed to go threw causing another insufficient funds fee! I am now realizing that all a bank was made for is to keep a person in debt; as long as we are in debt the bank shall have money! Your banks practices along with the majority of banks practices are designed to keep people in debt! You can right me a letter back apologizing for the way I feel, then go on to tell me that your practices are fare and the reason you allow transactions to go threw is in case of an emergency... One statement BULL$HIT! United States banks this year will earn roughly 39 billion dollars in overdraft fees you read it right 39 billion dollars than your customer service agents have the nerve to say charges go threw in case of an emergency! Here’s the icing on the cake with insufficient funds, my girlfriends account is overdrawn by 0.19 cents, and I call and speak to a customer service agent and they proceed to tell me if 0.19 cents is not in the account by the end of the business day a 34.00 dollar fee shall be assessed! My question is I wonder how many people were charged 34 dollars for being overdrawn by under a dollar. I have lost fate in the American Banking System.

     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2009-10-26:
Right, it is not a credit card. But, there is the visa logo on your card. That still doesn't mean it's treated like one. A lot of places don't accept just regular debit cards. When you swipe your card and not put the pin code in, it could take up to 6 days for the transaction to post. If you don't keep track of your account (i.e. a check register or Quicken) and just go by what it says online; that doesn't show everything... meaning when you use it as a credit. Those transactions go against the visa or mastercard logo associated with the card. So, there's a 50/50 chance the transaction will show up online. When you use your card as credit, the money doesn't get set aside. So, if there's a transaction you've forgotten about, when that merchant goes to collect the money owed; they're going to take it whether or not you have the funds in there... and thus, overdrafts are created.

"My question is I wonder how many people were charged 34 dollars for being overdrawn by under a dollar."

A lot. But, soon, that won't be an issue anymore once the new policies go into effect.

Just keep track of your account and overdraft fees won't happen. Write down your transactions as soon as you spend them. That way, it won't matter when they post, in your book they're already gone. Only *you* really know what transactions you've done. And note that not everything shows up on your online banking.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-10-26:
"I am now realizing that all a bank was made for is to keep a person in debt;"

Except there's those of us who aren't in debt by their bank.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-10-26:
Don't overdraft your account (even by 19 cents) and you won't get any fees.
Posted by JR in Orlando on 2009-10-26:
This is like saying the drug dealer kept giving you drugs when asked, and then complaining afterwards about him wanting to be paid. The bank is not your mother and has no duty to protect you from yourself and your overspending. As JTF said: "don't overdraft your account and you won't get any fees."
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-10-26:
If banks make a bundle on overdraft fees, it's because of people like you who keep handing it over to them. If you want revenge, try maintaining your account responsibly and not giving them another penny!
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-10-26:
I'm betting that if the OP had an extreme emergency and NEEDED that money, and was denied, we would be hearing THAT complaint instead.
Posted by burgerkink on 2009-10-31:
This is just another reason I do not have a checking account with Chase. I have a credit card with them, that is all. I have had it for probably 15 years. Recently (in the last three months) the minimum charge more that doubled; it almost tripled. I put a furnace and central air and a new roof on the card knowing I would have time to pay it off. Now I am thinking about moving the charges to another card. Oh, and I have a Keybank debit card that even when I use it as a credit card (like when the system is down)it ends being a debit card. When I talked to the customer service at Key about this, the lady said that yes, it works that way so the debit customers always have service, otherwise the debit charge will be rejected and the customer will not be able to complete their purchase. Gotta say, after almost 20 years, I still love my Keybank.
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Checking overdraft / insufficient funds scam
Posted by Ag8383 on 09/23/2009
I have been a customer of Washington mutual bank for several years which was recently taken over by chase. Within my last 5 months of banking with chase they have managed to hit me with about $250 in overdraft and insufficient funds fees (this never happened with Washington mutual). This bank doesn't update transactions for several days and allows the funds to continue to overdraw until it has updated 4 or 5 days later. With that said your account appears to have more money than is actually there causing repeated overdraft fees for 4 to 5 days after the first emailed overdraft notice. When I called the bank to complain they told me the transactions didn't update because they occurred over the weekend which makes sense but they failed to explain to me why my overdraft fee came on a Wednesday and why it takes 4 days to update when there are only 2 days in a weekend. This bank will do nothing to help you if this happens to you (and it will, this exact same thing happened to my mother as well, also a victim of the Washington mutual / chase merge). I will be closing this account and I'm moving all funds to bank of America (an excellent bank, I've had a problem free checking account with for a year now). If anyone knows how to go about reporting a financial institution to a government regulatory comission I would greatly apreciate any feedback.
     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-23:
*sighs*
Anyone?
Bueller?
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-23:
"This bank doesn't update transactions for several days and allows the funds to continue to overdraw until it has updated 4 or 5 days later."

So, do you actually keep track of your account other than relying on what it tells you online?
Posted by MSCANTBEWRONG on 2009-09-23:
A perfect example of a consumer blaming the bank for their inability to keep a simple check register...moving to BOA...the OP will be back soon complaining about the same thing.
Posted by Mrs. V on 2009-09-23:
I always wonder, though, why OPs say things like "(this never happened with Washington mutual)".

Does this mean that somehow they alway kept a good register with the former bank, but are now just being lazy?

Or could it have something to do with the new bank, maybe? A different way of processing the transactions?
Posted by Suusan B. on 2009-09-23:
Hi bearkatkitten: I knew you would run out of steam for these complaints sooner or later!

OP: Try a check register instead of relying on on-line banking to keep track of every time you swipe your card. The only way to know exactly how much money you have in your account vs. what "appears" to be in your account is to maintain an accurate, balanced check register.
Posted by Eloise on 2009-09-23:
Suusan, your turn!

The OP is moving his/her money to Bank of America? Out of the frying pan and into the fire, anyone?
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-23:
Because Washington Mutual babied their customers. And those that never took the time to learn how to take care of their finances... now that they're in the real world of banking, find themselves up a poo creek without a paddle because they have no clue how to a bank account works. Not all former WaMu customers had trouble with the Chase merger because they knew how to balance their checkbooks... but most of the Chase complaints are by former WaMu account holders.

To Suusan: After the last 3 days days of 20+ complaints about BoA... ugh... yeah... bleh... I could just cut and paste but not like the posters ever actually take responsibility and learn.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-23:
It doesn't matter where the OP puts his/her money. If you can't keep proper (and simple) records of how you spend your money, you're going to get hit with OD/NSF charges. Every bank, credit union and neighborhood loan shark will do the same. The problem has NOTHING to do with the bank. The problem is completely the OP's fault. He/she will be back after their first BoA fee.
Posted by Eloise on 2009-09-23:
Mundo, what have I told you about expecting people to take personal responsibility?
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-09-23:
I know, my bad....
Posted by Fufu487 on 2009-09-24:
*sigh* i don't even know why I read ANY review of ANY bank that has the words "scam" in it. Honestly, please review what a SCAM is and get back to us.......
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Loan Pay-off, Delay in processing/mailing Title
Posted by MLD on 08/05/2009
I wire transferred the pay-off for my auto loan because I am selling my car and wanted to expedite getting the title. It has been over a week and a half, and the title has still not been sent! I called their customer service department which said they got an estimated mail date from the title department which was 2 and a half weeks past the time that I wired the money!!! Chase Auto Finance is a Giant that could care less about real customer service and retaining customers... They've sent me more offers for another auto loan, and "special" credit card offers since my pay-off, but they can't send the title to my car. I will NEVER do business with CHASE again.
     
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Posted by MSCANTBEWRONG on 2009-08-05:
It took 2-3 weeks to get my title when I paid off my car. I didn't use Chase but that seems like a pretty normal amount of time to wait. Doesn't the title come from the State?
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-08-05:
The title is issued by the state but is usually held by the lien holder, in this case Chase.
Did you ask them to rush deliver it? They may have done so if you paid for the overnight delivery charge. That may have only cut they time by a few days. It still has to processed and the lien released before it can be sent.
Posted by MSCANTBEWRONG on 2009-08-05:
Thank you for the info Robf.
Posted by ag8383 on 2009-09-23:
Chase doesn't know what is going on in their company, their promotions department doesn't talk to their accounts departments. I had a 0% interest promo on a credit card from them, a year later after the promo ran up and I was paying 20% interest they sent me another offer, I sent it back and they sent me another card for 0% interest. This was great cuz I managed to transfer my balance over to the new card (you can do it by using another credit card) and I got another year of 0% interest out of them. They just screwed me on a checking account for $250 without looking at the nearly 4,000 dollar credit card balance I have with them that is set to be paid off over 4 years at 10% interest (that's near 1000 bux in intertest over 4 years). I'm paying the balance off immediately and closing my checking account as well. They got me for 250 bux but they will loose about $750 in interest because of it, they're idiots.
Posted by Sunil Kololgi on 2012-01-23:
There is something wrong that a new car dealer can give you a loan with a few keystrokes, without even telling you, that the loan is held by Chase. No written terms are shown or given either. I voted for ZObama thinking that these abuses will be curtailed. This time it will be ANY Repub.
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