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I Am an Abused Volunteer- KP Ignored Facts and Threatened to Sue Me
Posted by Joeret2005 on 07/21/2012
PANORAMA CITY VOLUNTEER, CALIFORNIA -- Volunteer abuse-humiliation-baited- here is the rsvp from the ceo- a letter from the legal dept threatening me with retaliation-revenge actually 6-17-12 should you have proof that what I have reported is untrue submit by noon June 21,2012 or this will be posted as promised---if you disagree now is the time to say so--- KP has had over 8 months to investigate-now it is your turn to be investigated-sorry it is your choice.

Ceo have you lost control of your company. Do you have any respect for victims of humiliation in your corp that are seniors & for 4 years and play with your job? I received a call from Gale, who doesn’t know how to speak up or leave a definitive message. She said I was getting a letter and carefully do what it says??- Good bye good luck.

6-2-12 just courtesy reminder—if someone else reads this letter would you be proud of the handling thus far including your non response and why not, since volunteers have a right to know the abusers and good organizations that are safe? KP set a record in fines for confidentiality will ceo ??????? Have the same honor in violating a volunteer of 4 years civil and human rights—not even common courtesy—your choice- my job is done and way to lenient would you be so lenient with me ---Micelle was not- actually abusive. The end if you want it that way or not. Out of my hands comes June 4 week.

May 15 , 2012
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Kaiser Permanente
1 Kaiser Plaza Oakland, California 94612
Phone: 510-271-5953 Fax: 510-271-6493

re: deplorable treatment of senior volunteer- “bullying” humiliation, Oct 17, 2011. Panorama City pharmacy n3. Sorry for this contact but hopeful of resolution.
This situation has no dignity or values of KP and surely embarrasses all of KP I wish to bring to your attention, numerous deplorable acts on me as a 4 year senior volunteer at Panorama City Facility. Especially arrogant attitude of managers to act equally for justice and to ascertain factual accounts and base a decision on the merit of the complaint or the employee’s action.

In order to capsulize these events: I was set upon by Michelle, in pharmacy 3 n---- she followed and antagonized me in three separate instances and “screamed” in my face. Finally, she tracked me from the supply room where she pushed a cart into the shelves near me as I removed an eyelash clouding my vision and did the same while I read the bulletin board and finally to the other side of the pharmacy approximately 30-35 feet. She actually pursued me. She screamed---type that she lurched forward at me and lowly screamed in my face—she was trying to bait me into a fight with contact but I disappointed her--sounds odd but it's 100% true--just not audible throughout the room. Security cameras!! In addition I was in resource management and at least 6 rn’s can vouch for my demeanor and even improvements, I made several suggestions that resulted in better archived files, more functional meeting room and accuracy of work file and pick up point for tasks for me.

Eve-ng- vol dir allowed a tottering older woman to have her personal dog at a KP banquet where capacity was overflowing with over 500-600 people---the woman even tripped and fell into the carving station ----this is the kind of bias and mindless decisions that permeate KP---unless you are chosen-
why bother you with such trivia…well to illustrate the culture of arrogance that even includes managers, employees and gender baiting all sources have been exhausted. There are no scruples of KP that KP can be proud of in this activity
i thought KP had a policy of non – retaliation and fairness—it is not being exhibited to show you this. I stated that I would prefer to have the door open in the resources office as it has been for over 3 years—I was thoroughly screeched at by one of your director/a manager practically slammed the door --- KP is so blind to old volunteers as to miss this implication---of course you get it----suppose a young woman said that, what should the manager have done????? Enough my focus is on Micelle’s cohort’s aggressive and erratic/belligerent behavior in pharmacy n3 –
respectfully submitted for your consideration. Please by June 1 2012, appreciate it.

excerpt of my letter to KP editied for space---ever hear of a company threatening a volunteer attacked on the job with legal action---KP did-imagine I was threatened by the legal dept for reporting abuse-vol director is humorless, contentious and vindicative and is the ceo---see their response---none???? Except more threats to me.
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Posted by trmn8r on 2012-07-21:
Maybe it is too late. I can't figure out what happened or where someone was a volunteer. Something happened in a pharmacy and at a banquet, but that is all I could figure out.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2012-07-22:
Simply put....what happened?
Posted by clutzycook on 2012-07-22:
Yeah, I'm not sure either. But if the OP is being threatened with a lawsuit and they have a legitimate reason to complain about KP, then perhaps the OP should look into retaining a lawyer.
Posted by madconsumer on 2012-07-22:
"re: deplorable treatment of senior volunteer- “bullying” humiliation,....."

it is very clear what this review is about. the poster was a volunteer, and was abused.

thank you for the warning. i have heard far to many people that have this insurer and have told me stories of their deplorable payment to their insured.

very helpful review and voted as such!
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2012-07-22:
Not understanding a review DOES NOT diminish its importance.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2012-07-22:
Well put tnchuck
Posted by raven2010 on 2012-07-22:
I think this company is the "ashley furniture" of healthcare
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Do not use Kaiser weight loss
Posted by Ceodad on 01/11/2012
LAFAYETTE, COLORADO -- Kaiser is great in many areas. My 1 star rating is for their weight management and customer service group. They are not equipped with fluoroscopes to do lap band fills so they have to guess. If you get sick and come back the next day because they put too much in, they charge you again. Today, they did nothing but tell my wife to go to their downtown office where they have more equipment than Rock Creek and charged $50 dollars. The doctor and customer service both agree there should not be a charge because they did not do anything, but neither knew how to fix it without a formal 30 day complaint. This is very poor care and bad process when no one can make a simple charge correction and force me to have spend 1+ hour on the phone explaining the same thing to multiple people.

Go somewhere else for lap band care - even without insurance the fee for a fill is less with better care.
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DNR orders
Posted by Cholmes56 on 10/21/2011
If any reader of this post has been a patient at a Kaiser Permanente hospital, or has a loved one who has been a patient at a Kaiser Permanente hospital, and was pressured by a Kaiser Permanente administrator for a "DNR" (Do-Not-Resuscitate") order, please respond to this post.
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Posted by Anonymous on 2011-10-21:
Why are you asking? That is a personal family matter and you should state your reason for asking people to respond to your post with such personal information. Is this a solicitation for an attorney?
Posted by Ben There on 2011-10-21:
I was thinking the same thing John... That, or this is an attorney.
Posted by Anonymous on 2011-10-22:
Well, lets see if they answer. Since they are supposed to be coming back to check for responses if we hear nothing back then we have our answer.
Posted by clutzycook on 2011-10-22:
Yeah, I want to hear more about this myself. I have worked in hospitals for 10 years and I have never heard of a hospital administrator talking to a patient about signing a DNR order. In pretty much all of my experiences, it has been the duty of the nurse or the physician to bring that sort of thing up when and if the need arises.

I wonder if the OP is thinking about a Living Will or Power of Attorney, or just even asking the patient if they have a DNR. But then again, why would an administrator be asking that?
Posted by Anonymous on 2011-10-22:
We placed a DNR for my sister while she was at Kaiser. We were not pressured. In fact, they were very compassionate and they didn't take the situation lightly. We were informed of all of the possible options and made one that was what we felt was in the best interest of someone that we loved very much. No administrator or health plan would pressure me or anyone with any common sense to do something that we didn't feel was right.
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False Patient Summary
Posted by Lawrencebucher on 09/10/2011
Date: 09/07/2011

I left my primary physician at KAISER PERMANENTE the morning of only to find out after getting a physical for Life Insurance and in spite of my labs coming back PERFECT that based on the industry standard BMI Chart (Body Mass Index) which is a pre-determined standard on one's body fat based on height/weight ratio, I was deemed OBESE, and my life insurance will now by eye-gouged due to such.

So, back to the BMI, because I am 5'10" 214LBS, yes, they wrote me as obese. And because I'm this weight is in direct proportion of training 3-5 days a week of high resistance conditioning (last 10 years) as I'm TRYING TO GAIN WEIGHT in which the above mentioned physician refused to address in my permanent medical record; which underwriters all have access to, and refused to refer me to get an actual body fat test conducted.

Now, while one may think how innocent a BMI chart is, let me catch you and the rest of the world up-to-speed. The BMI is "Industry Standard" which Life Insurance Co. (and others) go by, and regardless if you were truly only at 14% body fat and in EXCELLENT condition, if you fall within the box you fall within, this is the speculative predetermined evaluation.

So, on ones medical record, this BMI which is complete speculation, is a fact on one's record all for a Life Insurance to go by, so they can further jack up one's premium.

Below is a chain e-mail between me and my doctor getting into it; as e-mail is the only way to speak with a doctor/nurse; which is something I've NEVER experienced. Christ, I feel like a care at a Jiffy Lube with these douchebags.


RE: My BMI resultPrinter-friendly version To:
Larry Bucher Jr.


09/09/2011 4:36 PM

Your BMI concern does not warrant a referral to a specialist.
You can seek a second opinion from another physician. Just call appointment center.

----- Message -----
Sent: 9/9/11 02:46 PM
Subject: RE: My BMI result

You already made it clear that you could not deleate BMI! Am I missing something here?!

I said I NEED for you to note in MY medical report within the BMI data that the BMI is in direct relation to muscle mass/training and in no way related to obesity. Again, am I missing something? Then there's no need to send any letters out- it's all in my report/summary.

But we could too, and more sensably REFER me to get an actual test done from an ACE certified trainer or another physician/nurse as so to not "speculate" my true BMI. All I want, as well as the rest of my medical information, is to be ACCURATE.- LB

----- Message -----
Sent: 09/09/2011 1:08 PM
To: Larry Bucher Jr.
Subject: RE: My BMI result

I am unable to alter medical record and delete BMI!
If you want me to write you a letter to life insurance that you are applying for and for me to state that in my opinion, I think your elevate BMI is from muscle mass 2nd body training, I am more than happy to do so.

----- Message -----
Sent: 9/8/11 07:44 PM
Subject: RE: My BMI result

Dr. Chu, while I can appreciate your position with this, I'm asking you do likewise with me, and while you never put "obese," however the BMI score of 30.71 in-of-itself is an obese measurement.

If you can not conduct a skinfold test within your office, then I request an outside referal, or on your own fruition a note in these reports that I am athletic built; addressing the BMI diagnosis.


L. Bucher

----- Message -----
Sent: 09/08/2011 3:27 PM
To: Larry Bucher Jr.
Subject: RE: My BMI result

Unfortunately we do not have skinfold thickness measurement or bioelectrical impedance testing.
We can not remove BMI.
However, I never put diagnosis of obesity as your medical condition.

----- Message -----
Sent: 9/8/11 10:30 AM
Subject: My BMI result

Dr. Chu, I am requesting that a skinfold thickness measurements, or a bioelectrical impedance test be done on me. I REFUSE to let underwriters for my life insurance (based on this ridiculous BMI chart which does not take into account athletes), use this information which is nothing short of preposterous.

My medical records are for accurate information; not speculative. Either remove the BMI info as "obese" from my record altogether or accurately test my body fat.


Lawrence Bucher

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Posted by macdave on 2011-09-10:
BMI is what it what it is. The doctor cannot change it but seems willing to let the insurance companies know that it is high due to your weight training. If you want the other tests done, why don't you get one done somewhere else. It seems pretty clear that Kaiser does not offer these as part of the standard physical.

Posted by drugdoc121 on 2011-09-10:
I don't get it. The doctor said he was willing to state that your elevated BMI was due to muscle mass in a letter but cannot delete it from the record. If he cannot delete it but is willing to explain it, what else do you want him to do?
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While quality of medical care improves, quality of membership-related customer service take a dive
Posted by 14july1 on 07/13/2011
I called Kaiser Permanente Membership Services regarding a contract change which was extremely time-sensitive. Translation: I had only a day or two to ensure some contract changes that would save me some money on my sky-high monthly independent-contractor health care dues. One more translation: I am a little old nanny, and what I pay in monthly fees could feed a small nation. Okay - more like a village.

I called the # offered. After a 22-minute wait (love that Muzak!) the bored Kaiser-person said I needed to call another #. Long story short but not so sweet, I was on the phone for most of an afternoon, being transferred from here to there to some planet far, far away, and nothing was resolved.

I decided to take an (unpaid ) morning off of work to venture a trip to the Kaiser headquarters in Rockville, Maryland. When I arrived, it became clear where all that money hundreds of thousands of us send monthly is going. The place is castle-like in size and appearance; fortress-like in security. A security guard informed me that I was not allowed to go up the winding staircase to the membership offices to request help. Would he deliver a letter to them? No, not allowed. It seems he was not authorized to leave his post.

"Did I come to the CIA instead of Kaiser?" I asked. No reply. Not authorized to joke, I guess. I was told to wait, and a Kaiser representative would be down to talk to me. I waited. And waited. It was better than being on the phone, because I got a break from that damn music.

The upshot: I left. I had reached my humiliation quota for the day.
On my ride home, all I could think of was all the money I have sent them throughout the years. And how a good customer like myself is treated. And deep regret that because our health care system is so unfair, an honest working person should be subjected to this kind of treatment. And deep compassion for all the other Kaiser Permanente customers who share my frustration and disillusionment.
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Kaiser provides no information to customers
Posted by Neil1277634655 on 04/30/2011
UNION CITY, CALIFORNIA -- I own a business and recently switched to Kaiser for me and my employees' medical insurance. These are a few of the things that happened in the first one month that had me regret my decision to move to Kaiser:

1. Kaiser did not send any information about how to access account to the members. I, the group admin, had to send multiple emails to get the membership id information. However, when it came to billing, the first month premium was immediately charged to my account. The members were not able to avail any healthcare services for one month because they did not have any clue about how to take an appointment with the doctors.

2. There is no way to contact them outside business hours, not even to make payments! There is just one phone number for customer support and that too has very restrictive hours which makes it hard for someone with a full-time job.

3. I did not get any information about how to set up account for online access. Neither did I get information about how and where to send payments.

4. The notification of the first bill came on two days after the bill was due! How is anyone supposed to know that the bill is already due if the notification comes later than the due date?

5. There is no way to reset password online for group administrators. You can't even check for email responses without logging in! This is too much restriction in the name of security. This is so ironic because when I called an operator reset my password and told me the password over phone! What kind of security is this when you can't reset my password online and a live person can just speak out the password over the phone!

6. The website is really very difficult to use. The navigation controls are tedious and non-intuitive. It is very slow and does not provide information about how to pay bills.

I hope this review helps you make decision on choosing the right medical insurance plan.
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Posted by Alain on 2011-05-02:
You might try contacting Kaiser Permanente's headquarters in Oakland, CA, and ask to speak to a human that can help you with these questions-510-271-5800. Good luck. You'll need it.
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Kaiser is the worst
Posted by Saadi on 04/14/2011
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Posted by Kurizumaru on 2011-04-14:
Have you talked with the office to find out why they performed unnecessary surgery? Also, I'm not sure what Goku has to do with this.
Posted by Skye on 2011-04-15:
The best thing to do, whenever you are told you need any type of surgery, is to ALWAYS get another opinion, even a third opinion.

Sorry your surgery did not come out as you expected.
Posted by JoLynn Maleah on 2013-07-27:
When I was 16 my parents were told by a Kaiser orthopedic surgeon that I needed to have a foot surgery that was necessary. They were told that if I did not have it at that time it would be necessary to have it at a later time. I did ask my father if we cold seek a second opinion. He believed the reputable surgeon who happened to be a Harvard graduate. Over the years the surgery fell apart and I am now have a disabling foot condition (do not receive disability) I was told by another foot doctor the Kaiser did a lot of "banding" in the 60's and many people had crippled feet like mine due to this long standing practice.
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Kaiser is thriving
Posted by Sam35 on 02/20/2011
First of all I want to thank all the good people at Kaiser that help me for the 20 years I was with them ! Who ever hires the staff over their is doing a great job ! Don't get me wrong Iam still mad at Kaiser for the one time they they did a bad job ! But I want to thank you for the hundred times you did a good job. In my world if someone is paying me for something and I don't do what they expect, I will be fired !

As a businessman I respect Kaiser. Other Hospital are going out of business. Their staff is going out on strike, Doctors are being sue out of business ! It very hard to sue the government and Kaiser ? How did you pull that one off? Their are more people that are not injured or sick than people who are ! That might be why you are doing well. You give lots of people jobs. And some of those people have giving me a job !

No I will never go back to Kaiser. They betrayed my trust! But lets think about the lesson that I have learned from my experience at Kaiser. You better take good care of yourself because
you sure as hell don't want to put your life in the hands of some Doctor for some dumb move that you did to yourself that could have been avoided !

This a important lesson for anybody. So thank you Kaiser ! You threw me off your web site 20 years ago ! What took you so long ? I would of got rid of me much sooner !
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Posted by trmn8r on 2011-02-20:
Kaiser had a web presence in 1991? Or were you an employee using ARPANET? I can remember exchanging messages with colleagues at other GE locations around 1991, and it seemed like magic. Then again, so did detecting planes at over a 200 mile range with our infrared tracking system.

Forgive me for straying, but I couldn't figure out the rest of your complaint/compliment.
Posted by sam35 on 2011-02-20:
It was a compliment ! Kaiser is doing well when a lot of Hospitals are not . My writing is not that
good ! But then try to draw a conclusion from some
Doctors research . My point is that Kaiser has done
a lot of good for me ! And because of my experience I learned a very important lesson ! Never trust any
Doctor more than you trust your self . Trust your
feelings . Just because they are Doctors they don't
know more about you than you do ! If you go along
with Doctors when you think their wrong , Your in for a very unpleasant experience !
Posted by GenuineNerd on 2011-02-20:
I am a very happy Kaiser patient. I have been with Kaiser (in Ohio) for almost 25 years now. I switched to Kaiser from Blue Cross/Blue Shield years ago, since BC/BS refused to pay for x-rays taken in a doctor's office, and refused to pay for my prescriptions, despite having so-called "high option" federal employee coverage. When my premium increased from $33 biweekly to $51 biweekly (this was in 1987), I decided to make the switch to Kaiser Permanente next time there was an open enrollment season. I have been happy ever since. Sure, I have to use their facilities, doctors, and pharmacies, but I have been very happy with Kaiser...and my biweekly premiums are still very reasonable.
Posted by sam35 on 2011-02-21:
If you really not very sick or Injured Kaiser is great ! In some cases having Kaiser is like hitting
the lottery ! I know a fire man that shot himself
in the hand . They flew him to a non Kaiser hospital
by helicopter wear some Doctor used his god like
talent to put his hand back together ! Today you can't even see a scar ,and his hand works fine !
In other cases they will leave you to die ! I don't know how Doctors figure out who get what ?
One thing for sure .If you luck out and get the right treatment you will be much better off at
Kaiser ! With Blue Cross you will pay your deductible .$2.400 in my case . Then 20% on top
of that per year ! That can add up to some real
money . If I really get sick and have to go to the
Hospital , Iam going to the V.A wear at least I
will be able to afford a nice funeral !
Now Blue Cross is not all bad ,money won't do you any good when you are dead ! You can go right to
the Mayo clinic or to Standford wear you are more
likely to get the right care in a timely manor .But
you sure as hell will pay for it !
Posted by GenuineNerd on 2011-05-21:
At least with Kaiser, I have access to the Cleveland Clinic if I need to be hospitalized...one of the top hospitals in the nation.
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Kasier is the Worst!!
Posted by Kaisersucks on 02/09/2011
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA -- Kaiser is absolutely awful! They won't pay if you have complicated medical issues and simply don't care. They only care about saving money. They hurt me tremendously, and I am still in pain from their lack of care. When I filed a complaint with Kaiser, they offered me extended coverage and then reneged on their offer.

In addition to all the pain they caused me, I now have to pay for the extended coverage bills they were supposed to cover. Very cruel and unethical! Don't use Kaiser unless you want to be maimed or be broke!
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Posted by Anonymous on 2011-02-09:
More details please. How did they hurt you?
Posted by sam35 on 2011-02-16:
Its hard to keep up with Doctors even when you feel well ! Iam lucky I have Doctors that are my friend!
I save them more than they save me, so far !Doctors
blame the insurance Co. and the insurance Co. blame
the Doctors. Did you know that if you find a Doctor
that take cash ,with no insurance involvement your
care will be better and it will cost you less ! But
stay out of the Hospital.
Posted by getoverit on 2011-02-16:
I've never used Kaiser but from what I hear, when you have a Kaiser plan, the doctors you see are employees of Kaiser itself. So, there's probably not a lot of blame game going on between the docs. and the insurance company.

I've known people who swear by Kaiser, especially people with large famiies, because (evidently) they don't get nickle-and-dimed for every office visit or minor treatment.

If this matter is a serious as it sounds, I'm wondering whether the OP is considering taking action against Kaiser. If they truly caused the need for extended coverage, I would think they could be held liable, based on statements from current care-givers.

But, like littleshorty says, we don't have many facte here.
Posted by Anonymous on 2011-02-16:
I have heard from friends that if you belong to Kaiser, it can take weeks for the proper care. Nice system they have. It seems they have accepted far more patients than they can accommodate. Greed at the patient's expense. I have heard that some Kaiser locations are better than others, and I'm guessing probably those in smaller cities.

My doctor is in private practice and I always get good care from her (for the past 13 years). They are out there. You just have to hunt them down.

Thanks for the post.
Posted by sam35 on 2011-04-15:
So true their are great Doctors out their ! Good luck finding them . And you will need even more luck if they take you . But it is possible ! People
spend more time researching buying a toaster than they put into their own health care ! No wonder their are so many horror stories . Once upon a Time I was no different . I don't trust Doctors just because they are Doctors ! I license to what they say , but don't do anything that I don't think is best for My health !
Kaiser , Blue Shield , Whatever insurance you have
health care is not good and it is going to get worse ! Don't do anything dumb that will put you in a system that you don't want any part of !
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If the State says so, it must be true.
Posted by Pawn on 11/22/2010
LOS ANGELES -- After NOT receiving services (the staff "lost" my specimen), I requested a simple refund of my copay. After zero response from several Kaiser customer service points, I complained to the State (Managed Health Care) who said "my copays are not contingent upon degree of satisfaction or reason for service."

I'm sorry, but receiving competent service is a basic tenet of business law. No service, no pay.

Is $25 worth it to Kaiser to be posted on every site I can access?
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Posted by Anonymous on 2010-11-22:
Unfortunately, yes. Kaiser Permanente is Goliath, and you are David without a slingshot or a stone.
Posted by sam35 on 2011-03-06:
You know that Kaiser has the most comprehensive mental health service of any insurance provider !
If you stay with Kaiser you might need them ? If
you are paying $70.00 a month Kaiser is worth it,
however is your paying $700.00 a month and have the nerve to pay cash ? You can do better ,and you won't
need to see a counselor !
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