Kramer & Frank, P.C.

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1125 GRAND BLVD., STE 600 KANSAS CITY, MO 64106-25 -- I got a letter from a company named Kramer & Frank, P. C. The letter says RE: Lowes consumer account / GE MONEY BANK
REF: my husband & I names
Dear, MT. and Mrs. Meyers:
Unless you notify us within 30 days after receipt of this letter that the validity of this debt, or any portion of it, is disputed, we will assume that the debt is valid. If you do notify us in writting of a dispute, we will obtain verification of the debt and mail it to you. Also, upon your written request within 30 days, we will provide you with the name and address of the original creditor if different from the current creditor.
Kramer & Frank, PC
Pay online:
to discuss this account, contact:collection administration, at (
816) 778-0637
That's the summery of what was on the notice letter the top portion was for me to make a payment & send back to them (Kramer&Frank, PC) with my account info on it. It did not say they are now the new party in charge of collecting my debt nor if they were taking me to court but its by, an attorney collection administrative. I am going to call first thing as well as write but I have disputed this debt in January 2010, and still no one has contacted me back. After calling & calling & writting I even faxed over all my prove to a lawyer "Larry Smith attorney at law" the lawyer I found online to help me in January.
Still they continue to send me collection notices & ask about other claims that are invalid like "cognizable claims", what else can I do or that can be done??
I am going to try writting my State attorney general office write a letter to the complaint board and complain to the BBB. That's all I know I need a real lwyer that I can pay after or if I win, or talk with someone that knows the law so I don't have to look everything up online.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY HINTS/ SUGGESTIONS/COMMENTS/ HELP/ ADVICE for me about this letter or this current issue?? Please
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User Replies:
Slimjim on 03/11/2010:
Sounds like they are the new collectors on this Money Bank account that is believed to be yours. You say you disputed this debt in January. Does that mean you do not believe it is yours? You will have to do it again with this firm it seems. I'm not sure what complaint you have to file with any AG or BBB at this point. If this inquiry is erroneous, you should be able to prove that to this collector if you see fit. If they harass you continually still, and of course the debt really isn't yours, then maybe you might want to expand into an offensive mode.
Talk360 on 03/11/2010:
I am disputing a portion of the debt account when I was on payment agreement plan with "Encore collections they attempted 2 second withdrawal for this same account from my personal banking account, and they deny doing so. Instead they pointed the figure at my bank = I contacted them & there bank GE Money neither of them attempted the 2ND withdrawal either they claim (I know my bank didn't). I do not think I should ever have to get into an offensive mode> even if a collector if being offensive to me I will state I am terminating the call due to the conversation mode. But how or why should the account ever be sold or transferred from the collection agency when they have not yet cleared my name or account. They terminated my agreement plan without giving me any notification and never could explain the transaction that took place with my personal bank account. Instead they wanted to settle the account with a good deal I declined until they had explanation of who & why the issue occurred
Slimjim on 03/11/2010:
Your expecting too much from the industry 360. They can buy and sell bad debt all day. When I say offense, I mean going on the offense like in a legal way. Honestly, unless you can and want to take care of this via a settlement payoff, I wouldn't even respond to these guys. trying to work with collectors and especially setting up payment plans and giving them access to your account for withdrawals, seems to always turn out bad.
Depending on the debt load, you could investigate doing a debt management plan or even a settlement workout with a debt assistance company. They are all over the net, just compare a few as some are fly by night and stink. If the debt isn't that much, forget about it till you are in a better position to settle it yourself.
localgod on 03/12/2010:
According to your letter, Kramer & Frank, P. C. has bought your Lowe's/G.E. Capital credit card debt and are trying to collect. They are utilizing the first step in their collection process outlined by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, which is validation. This process allows you to see whether or not the debt is valid. Also, it is a form of discovery, allowing you to determine if they have all the information necessary to use legal means to collect the debt (I.e.; civil suit and wage garnishment). Please Google "Fair Debt Collection Practices" to get more information. I recommend you have them validate the debt (send them a request by registered letter), they may not have all their ducks in a row and may write-off the debt.
Starlord on 03/12/2010:
This is a common practice. We bought a computer and were approved on the phone. The day after the computer arrived, we got a letter that they could not offer us the requisite credit to buy it. They cancelled the associated freebies usually given by the company and sold the contract to a computer financing company. They got fooled, as we paid the account off better than agreed. When I was 19, I joined a health club recommended by my district manager (I was in book sales). After a couple of months, I quit going, and they sold the contract to an outfit that sent two goons to my apartment at 1 AM. The case went to court, and the judge threw the case out, as it was illegal to contract with a minor in Indiana, and my age was clearly shown on the application. Contracts are bought and sold all the time.
Talk360 on 03/12/2010:
So are they attorneys? why whould a collection agency put this on the top of a letter? I thought they could not misrepresent themselfes like this "like taking me to court, or making me think this came from an attorney that might go to court? Why would they put this instead of there name or is this a collection agency that's called this?
Anonymous on 03/12/2010:
Talk360, Yes, they are attorneys and there is a good chance they will sue you. It's the new breed of boiler room attorney collections springing up since the Bankruptcy reform of 2005 and the automation of the court dockets. These guys play a numbers game mainly fishing for default judgments then wage garnishments. If you ignore them you could very well find yourself being served.

Indeed I'd ask for validation but remember that anything you say in your validation letter can be used against you in court. Be very careful not to make any admissions. Also don't deny anything that is true or make any untrue statements.

You probably don't want to go to court but neither do they so if you're respectful in your communication and more importantly seem like you have a handle on the situation then they are less likely to sue and more likely to make a favorable settlement offer. Remember it's just a numbers game with these guys.

I wish you luck!
Talk360 on 03/15/2010:
Shouldn't they state they are attorneys why would they say at the bottom this communication is from debt collector attempting to collect a debt. It is VERY confusing when they say its just a debt collector but it comes with an attorney slogo on it. > Don't ya think
Ronson on 03/19/2010:
I am currently being sued by this outfit and have been researching them for the past couple of weeks. They are indeed lawyers and they sue quite often. Most people complain that K&F often do not answer phone calls and that they garnish wages and tap bank accounts beyond any favorable court judgments they may have received.

Depending on where you live, you may want to check with your county civil court and make sure they have no court dates concerning you. Many people are complaining (I believe mostly in Kansas) that they were never served a summons yet court dates came and went and default judgments were made against them. Apparently some jurisdictions will simply leave a summons on your doorstep. So I recommend you check and make sure, and while you're there, ask what kind of summons service your county provides.
Ronson on 03/19/2010:
One more thing; it won't do any good to report their abuses to the BBB. K&F already have an "F" rating in their hometown of St. Louis because they don't care. They don't care because their clientele are not concerned with BBB ratings. A complaint to the state attorney general might go further. Or you can complain to the head honcho directly:
Donald B. Kramer:
Talk360 on 03/23/2010:
Thank you for all this feed back its helped me out so much especially STEW & Ronson xtra thanks. I spoke to a justice advice lady today, ( a service for Kansas courts) she had nothing to say to me that was helpful & new nothing more than what I had already new. She just said "that's the way the collection is , its just that way" Get over it , no buts"" And told me I'm just getting myself in more trouble letting me know its a long complicated legal issues that I dint want to get into. Although I did call them because I am ready to learn & go further with these issues I am facing. So many people around this world deals with the same thing I am but nothing is being done about it. really did nothing so how would I go about writing a letter to the state general attorney? Will he actually see it or just his secretaries?
Ronson on 03/24/2010:
After re-reading all you've posted here I'm not sure you have a valid complaint for the attorney general. K&F are annoying you but they apparently aren't breaking any laws.

In my opinion, Stew's advice sounds like the best route. Carefully construct a letter requesting validation of the debt, and use the words "alleged debt" whenever you refer to it. You might also ask them for any contracts they presumably have with you or your husband's signatures on them.
Talk360 on 04/28/2010:
Thanks I will try to apply these things when I respond by letter so far they have been very fair to me.
Ronson on 07/21/2010:
Wow. After dealing with K&F attorneys in Christian County, MO - and after dealing with a judge who seems to favor them (he knows them individually by name) - I don't think I have a chance. In fact, I am beginning to think there is something fishy going on with the judicial system in this county, but that's for another thread.
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