National City Bank

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Overdraft System Is Criminal
Posted by on
DETROIT, MICHIGAN -- This all started when I deposited my workers comp check into an ATM on Labor day weekend. I was aware it would take an extra day to get into their hands because of the holiday. But what happened next is criminal in my opinion.

I already had funds in the account and had used my debit card thinking I was drawing on these funds. I wrote my rent check out of the deposit funds the day after I made the deposit. I was estimating that the check would clear and my landlord would make his deposit all in about the same time. Why would I assume this? Well the workers comp check was written from a National City Account and when I made previous deposits to tellers, the money was available right then.

When I checked my account on the Wed after Labor day I was shocked to see numerous overdraft fees totaling over $350.00. The deposit I made was still pending even thou it was drawn on the same bank. I called numerous people including the branch and 800 #s. I was actually told once "Hey, we are in this to make money."

My biggest complaint with this is the fact they cashed the rent check knowing this would cause a shortfall when the pending debit charges came through. If they were ethical and cared about their customers, and I would understand if they did this, they should have bounced the rent check which would have saved me a couple hundred dollars in fees. But according to another branch employee, the fees they rack up go to whichever branch you opened your account at. It goes toward their total profit for the year. There was not enough money in the account to cover the rent check. I guess I am guilty of writing a bad check. That's fine. But they allowed it. This "we are doing this service for our customers" is a load of crap. They are doing this for themselves. I was also told by the branch I opened the account at, "we have policies we have to go by." There is no human factor inputed into the equation anymore? It was clear I was not out writing bad checks and using my debit card knowing I didn't have the money.

This is why I hope all the banks fail and these people who gave me the run-around are out of jobs. We actually gave tax payer money to banks like this! It blows my mind. My advice is stay away from National City. They are full of crooks.

The other problem I had was when I withdrew 100.00 from their ATM and only received 80.00 Take a wild guess if I got my money or not? As a practice I count my withdraw in front of the small camera as soon as I grab the money. It was clearly short. I went inside to complain, fill out a form, two weeks later was told the machine was in balance. Nice to see they can review the security tape if something happens outside one of their machines. They had no answer when I told them I counted the money in front of the camera. For once, they were dead silent which tells me they are nothing more than dirty thieves.
     
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Anonymous on 2008-12-18:
Your mistakes started with "thinking" and "estimating" funds were available. You have to "know" what is available before you spend, that's how you don't get stuck with these fees.
Cyane on 2008-12-18:
Unfortunately, National City ATMs don't distinguish between cash, NC checks, and non-NC checks. The tellers can make the NC checks available to you immediately.. when you make the deposit inside the branch. Your deposit wouldn't have been available until, at the earliest, Wednesday morning because of the Monday holiday. The bank could have declined to honor your rent check, but you still would have been hit with an NSF fee, and probably an additional fee from your landlord. ATM issue should have been looked at and you should have been credited your additional $20, but if you've caused problems in the past, the bank isn't going to give you $20 for goodwill, esp if the ATM balanced. It's okay though. NC is getting bought up by PNC, have fun dealing with them.
Ponie on 2008-12-18:
National City is one of the banks I do business with. Did you check the receipt you got at the ATM? There are two dates shown on it: 1) Today's Date; 2) Business Date. If you make a deposit on a week day after 3:00PM, #1 will be the current date, but #2 will be the next day. Over the holiday weekend, it may have been even more than just the next day.
Chitwngirl on 2008-12-31:
You wrote a bad check and you knew it when you did it...the rest that happened was KARMA!
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Free at their discretion????
Posted by on
Last month I deposited a check via ATM. No hold, funds available on-line, didn't check at the ATM or go in to speak with a teller, but there was no problem. This month, same thing only the funds were not available for a day. No big deal. I can wait a week or two if need be. I'm not strapped for $. Just let me know.......but,on-line the funds became available, I sent the money out, free on-line checking. It became a problem the next day when someone or something decided to put a hold on said check. I spent all day with 3 different factions of the company. No-one would do anything to help me. Not their fault. Well, OK. Not their fault, but because of some glitch in their computer my account showed a hold on 1400 some $ and an available balance of 800 odd. Did they cash a check I had mailed out for 25.00? No. It bounced. They could have honored it if they wanted to. It's at their discretion. I guess they just looked at that $34 profit. I had to pay 34 on this end, 31 on the other end and explain to a child why their birthday check was no good.
What I have to say to National City is, enjoy your $34 because it's about the last you'll be getting from me.

The appraiser is coming Monday as I am refinancing my mortgage through another company and as soon as my federal return gets here, if not sooner, I'll be paying off my 0%credit card and am in the process of changing all my direct deposits and bill payments. I will keep the account open for one check and one check only. My renter banks through you. I'll deposit his check and take the money right back out. You have lost about $7000 in interest a year over $34 dollars. You have a program going to pay $50 to people for opening up an account with direct deposit. Do the math.
     
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tander on 2006-02-23:
Good review, that's pretty pathetic of a bank to do that!
Ponie on 2006-02-26:
Darlene, did you go to the branch where you have your account? I've been with National City for years and have always received good service from them. In fact, one time I did a really dumb thing. I was buying a 6-mo. old car. Owner owed something like $21,000 on it and I had to have a certified (or was it cashier's) check in the exact amount before I could take possession. I withdrew a little more than the required amount from a mutual fund. Day I received the check, went to my branch to handle the transaction, never thinking of the fact that the fund check had to clear before I could do this. The branch manager explained to me why she couldn't do this. After a few phone calls (and she probably felt sorry for this imbecile before her who was practically in tears), my transaction was completed and I drove away in my Mustang convertible a couple of hours later. She properly admonished me for not calling the bank ahead of time and let me know she was putting her job on the line. I've never done anything so dumb again. I think if you had talked to your branch manager, this snafu could have been straightened out.
darlene on 2006-02-27:
I too have been with them for years. The branch that put the hold on the check nor the branch that I opened my account with would fix the problem. My new mortgage is in the works. Joining a credit union down the street.
justice man on 2008-03-18:
darlene, sorry about your bad experience with national city. My experience with them has been horible. They are absolutely the worst bank and the customer service is horrible. They have ruined my credit through bank fraud and they refuse to fix the problem or help in any way.
billmcintee on 2008-07-09:
well...here's my point of view concerning National S**tty...I had planned a free check by phone for my credit card company to take a payment out of my checking on the 30th of June...on the 30th of June, as expected, my cc company presented the check to the bank...now mind you, I had over $300.00 available for this $84.00 check...on the 1st of July, I had received my daily balance by email and found that my balance had gone from $300.00 to $70.00...I naturally assumed, "OK, well looks like they (my credit card company) got their money...fair enough" and I figured that some of my pending items had gone through as well to bring my balance down so low...WRONG...National S**tty had held this check for two days before it posted to my account...in the meantime, I am under assumption that I still had $70 bucks in my account, I have a day left to get my paycheck, so I can get a couple things I still needed...now naturally, if I go in there and present a check at the front, it is taken out of my account right then and there, or if I deposit some money, it is posted after midnight on that business day...well, now, on July 2nd, I have an $84 check coming out of a $70.00 balance, which unbeknownst to me, was also affecting three other transactions that I had put through that didn't add up to the $70.00 that were now in overdraft...$112.00 in overdraft fees...a week an a half prior to this, I was assessed FIVE more overdrafts because my balance never displayed as negative, so I never had a chance to get the money in there to "right" the issue...warning to all...National City's system is programmed to subtract pending items against a running balance, but in reality, it get's subtracted AFTER the running balance, so you are never really shown whether you have a negative balance or not...if you really want to see this in action, take a screenshot of your online statement and take note of the items up in the green area...they will display like they are getting subtracted from your account already...then wait a couple of days and look at your statement when those items clear and then compare it...I have been with National City for a couple of years now and have finally gotten fed-up with this...I have been assessed 8 overdrafts in a period of 2 and a half weeks at $34 a piece...I am furious at this and all I end up doing is arguing with the customer service over this...they had no reason to hold that check for two business days as there was more than enough money to cover this when the check was presented for payment...now, I have a couple items of proof that customer service screwed up on things, but I don't know if I have the strength to pursue this anymore...I keep hearing from customer service that I should keep a register or keep track of my transactions...well, I counted on the online banking system to do that for me and I am finding more and more than their system is foul...as soon as my present pendings clear...I'm getting the HELL out of that bank and not turning back...
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National City Broke Me Financially
Posted by on
MERRILLVILLE, INDIANA -- I am glad to hear National City is now suffering their losses. I was once a customer with the Loan and Investments Department. The Loan Dept was okay, but the Investment side was so bad my investment broker for Nation City was buying $500.00 suits and losing money every day for his investment customers. This person called me and said he forgot to call and tell me Enron was going under. He called me the week later to tell me my $99,000.00 investment was not worth $19.30 cents. Wow what a guy, I told him what I thought about his performance and he wanted to sue me for complaining. I had to call his boss in Indianapolis and explain to her what was going on. At this time my wife was dying from Alzheimer's and I needed the money to take care of her. Well I'm sure you have figured it out by now--yes, I am broke person and National City really did not care.
So, yes I am very happen to hear the bad news, but not happy as to what happen to me. I hope the employees who worked for the investment side are also broke and crying the blues with me.
So you all have a nice day and hope you all can learn to do without as I did. I am 73 years old and all my savings went under thought Nation City!!!!
Bye for now, and so long forever!
RD
     
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madconsumer on 2011-01-20:
as with all banking institutions, the investment side is not regualted, just like any other investment company.
momsey on 2011-01-20:
Investment companies are absolutely regulated.

Jack Dock, I hope you reported your complaints to the SEC and/or FINRA.
Ponie on 2011-01-20:
Jack, I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your wife, along with your investments. However, Enron didn't go under in as little as a year or so ago. During this time, weren't you reading the statements you were getting from National City? Anytime I open up one of my statements and see anything just a bit awry, I'm on the phone to my adviser. Sometime things can be changed to my benefit, others not.

Also, I certainly hope you didn't have *everything* in Enron. All the advice we see on TV, read in the newspapers, magazines, financial periodicals, etc., tells us to diversify so all our $$$ are not in one basket.

All of us suffered in the down turn. None of us got relief from our investment losses by complaining. Even your broker at National City took a big hit.

Good luck!

momsey on 2011-01-20:
Ponie, that is true, but if you're paying a broker to handle your investments, he is responsible for handling them properly.
Ponie on 2011-01-20:
momsey, depends on the program you set up with the financial institution. In some cases you may be assigned a 'broker' who would be available to answer a question or two on the phone at no charge. This broker may look over your account perhaps once a year. In other instances, depending on fees the client pays, the broker may study your account once a quarter, once a month, or in the case of the high rollers (I don't fall into this category), once a week. Heck! In my office we had brokers who never placed some of their clients folders into the file cabinet.

Reading Jack's complaint, I tend to think he was in the first category I mentioned. Enron didn't go under in six months. During the time of their failing, the broker was probably calling/working with the individuals who were paying pre-determined fees and moving their money to the best advantage.

I was in the 'biz' for a while and always, always advise anyone who has money to invest, if it's as little as $5,000, to pay a bit of an upfront fee for a Registered Investment Advisor or Registered Representative. Check credentials. Is this person a CLU, CFP, ChFC, etc.? Unless you're a financial wizard--don't play around with your money, but don't let it set dormant, either. Dave Ramsey knows. :)
madconsumer on 2011-01-20:
momsey, I was not clear, I meant regualted like by fdic. if someone is losing money in their investments, there is no one to blame but themselves.
momsey on 2011-01-20:
Ponie, I was also formerly in the biz. If the broker called him at all, that says to me that this was a broker who should have been keeping an eye in things. And you're right, no one should have all their eggs in one basket, but this is why people pay brokers - to guide them in the best way of investing their money. Unfortunately, a lot of laypeople don't even know the right questions to ask.

I completely disagree with madc that if an investor loses money, he has no one to blame but himself. The SEC and FINRA also disagree. Again, this is why people pay brokers.
trmn8r on 2011-01-20:
I don't consider my stock, which is the bulk of my investments, to be "savings". Savings is like CD's, money market accounts.

To me, a "stock broker" wouldn't call me if one of my stocks went down 30% to warn me to sell. If I were paying someone 1-5% per year to advise/manage my portfolio, then I would expect a call or action on my behalf if they had that responsibility.
Anonymous on 2011-01-20:
This broker failed and was only looking after HIS best interests. If he was a good broker, he would have advised this gentleman long ago not to have so much money in stocks. Shame on people who conduct their businesses this way. Sounds to me like the op was very ill informed by someone tring to get as big a commission as he could.
trmn8r on 2011-01-20:
singsing - We don't know what percentage of his assets were in Enron, and other stock. I suppose we could assume it was high, but we would really need the whole picture to make a judgment.

If his only concern were making commissions, the broker would be calling constantly and advising the OP to buy or sell something.
Anonymous on 2011-01-20:
Lord, it sounds like from what the op said about being broke, that was the case. I thnk that's a logical assumption.

Usually when something big happens in the stock market, the brokers start with their top clients--one's with the most to lose, when they do their callbacks. This guy probably didn't rate.
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National City Ripoff
Posted by on
Why am I always overdrawn the amount of the overdraft fees the bank charges...meaning if they didn't charge me I would not have been overdrawn!!! My husband and I are really close to the vest about spending money from our checking account. I have been very sick this past year and we no longer have savings but we do have a checking account with National City. Unfortunately, it won't be for long. I can't tolerate their abuse of overdraft fees. I just had them refund 2 overdraft fees 2 days ago since according to MY records I would not have been overdrawn if they had not added those fees..there were NO overdrawn checks, no amounts in my book or on their on line record that should have made my account overdrawn.

Still when they refunded the 2 fees, a total of $68 we were apparently (according to THEIR records) we were. 50 (50 cents mind you) overdrawn. So the girl on the phone said if my husband could get to the bank and deposit this. 50 I could safely start my check register with a zero balance. Instead my husband deposited $100 giving us a positive balance of 99.50. This was the balance after the OD fees were refunded. The next morning, on line I check the balance a viola (!) suddenly my balance is $150odd dollars!!?!? huh?? WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? I waited 24 hours and the balance was the same...actually it pretty much balanced with my book..so if I suddenly went from $99.50 to over $150 where did the money come from? The next day (yesterday) the balance showed an overdraft amount of $36.03 so my husband zoomed to the bank and deposited $75 at approx 9:30 am since the bank told us if the money was in by 2p there would be no charge. Now again this morning I checked my account which granted should only have a $2 balance but nonetheless a positive balance and they have taken ANOTHER over draft fee leaving me $32 in the negative..their overdraft fees are $34.00 dollars..see where I am coming from???

Does anyone know where I can report a bank for deceptive practices?? I have had it with them and will be opening a new account somewhere else..Can anyone recommend a good financial institute in the Chicago area? This bank always has an excuse, saying they can charge OD fees on PENDING charges????? I have never heard of that since sometimes those charges don't even come through!

Often I have an OD fee charged on one day for a check or charge that isn't on the register till the NEXT day ..how could that be legal? Anyway, my recommendation DO NOT BANK WITH NATIONAL CITY!
     
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Anonymous on 2010-02-17:
Are there purchases posting that you didn't write down?
Any auto debits coming through that you've forgotten about?
Any checks?
It doesn't take much to overdraft account. All you have to do is go over by just a penny, and you get hit with an overdraft fee.
There's something going wrong if you *are* keeping track of your account and not just relying on what it says online... if you keep getting hit with fees. If you can, stop spending money for a few days... let things catch up... then, when you know (for sure) what your balance is... knowing nothing's posting or anything like that... start off fresh and new that way. If not, you're going to keep trying to fight a losing battle.
sharpasice on 2010-02-18:
Let me just give you an example..on the 16th the bank took an OD fee and left me with a balance of POSTITIVE $22 HUH??? Positive??? Well then why the OD fee? On the 17th I was overdrawn BECAUSE they took the OD fee the day before...(for NO apparent reason) so in addition to the fraudulent OD fee on the 16th there is ANOTHER OD fee on the 17th! For a balance that the bank made OD ...not me! Today is payday so...viola! we now have $68 less than what we should have..Account will be closed today..even if I have to do money orders from now on!
goduke on 2010-02-18:
Your ledger balance may have been $22 in the positive, but your available balance was undoubtedly below zero, due to an authorization.

You may find that, if your bank balance is going to get close to zero, you might want to switch to cash and stay away from the debit card, as the authorizations are clearly causing problems for you.
sharpasice on 2010-02-18:
maybe you should google class actions suits against banks..you will see that this is a frequent happening and banks are being sued for this..If my "available balance" shows positive according to their on line records..AND mine ledger balance then explain to me how/why they are taking OD fees??!?!?! When they were Mid America Bank I NEVER had this problem..
Anonymous on 2010-02-18:
Sharp, If you have a balance of $100 on Monday, and a check for $150 comes in, they will return the check. On Tuesday, the overdraft for that returned check hits the account, so you have a positive balance of $62.50. Your balance is positive because they returned an item unpaid.
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I Just Don't Understand Their Way Of Doing Business
Posted by on
I just got off the phone with NCB regarding my Parent's credit card. The representative went through all the basics of who am I, what relation am I to the card holders...yak, yak, yak. Being in the business myself, I understand 3rd party disclosure and all, so I have no problem answering their questions. She wanted to know if my Mom was there to give them permission to speak with me. I told her, my Mom passed away and I have been handling all of her and my Dad's finances since December, making all the payments etc. She asked me to put my Dad on the phone, well he was laying down and I didn't want to wake him to come to the phone. So, she said she was limited to what information she can give to me, but can answer general questions. OK...again, I understand that, no problem. I told her the reason I'm calling is for a copy of the credit card agreement/terms in which my Mom agreed to when the account was opened. (She had this account for over 20 years and was never late on any of her payments). I explained that I needed to know if there are any penalties if the account is paid down, leaving NO balance (Some banks charge if you don't carry a certain balance) or, if the account would be closed if it is inactive for a certain amount of time. Her answer was, "I don't think so", "Not usually" and "Not always" well, those answers were not good enough...I want to know for sure. So, she said she can send me a copy of the agreement. I said, that would be good...that's what I wanted. Then, she said again, that I had to have my Dad come to the phone to request it because they can't send it to me. I told her, it can be sent directly TO my DAD at the address they have on the account (we live at the same place)...and she said she can't do that. I asked, why not, It's not as if I'm asking her to send to to another name at another address...but she refused and said she can't send it without HIM requesting it! I told her she didn't have any problem accepting the payments from ME since December, including the $1000.00 payment I just sent out last month and hung up on her.

Now, again...I can understand if I asked her to send it to someone OTHER than my Dad at an address OTHER than my Dad's address...but come on NCB...Like it or not it's ME you have to deal with if you want this paid...I asked you to send the agreement that my DAD signed for TO my Dad at my DAD'S address! This is the only credit card they have, and I've been paying the balance down for them...I hate credit cards...I HATE THEM!
     
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skelly39 on 2009-07-20:
I'm sorry about your mom. While I would normally agree with the rep that she can't disclose anything to anyone who is not on the account, I don't see a problem with them mailing something to your father. Ask for a supervisor.
DebtorBasher on 2009-07-20:
Exactly, and like I said, being in the collection business and dealing with credit cards...I understand the 3rd party disclosure and all, so I didn't have a problem answering her questions...but to request something to be sent TO the card holder at their address? That just doesn't make sense to me. I guess my next step will be to send them a copy of the POA I have for my Dad...that SHOULD clear up any problems in the future.
Anonymous on 2009-07-20:
Skelly, that's a pretty common avenue of fraud. Call and ask for some info on an account, then intercept the mail. I understand fully why they wouldn't do it. The poor folks who answer the phones have it drilled into them that they cannot divulge any kind of information, they just aren't allowed to make exceptions or decisions on what might be legitimate.
DebtorBasher on 2009-07-20:
I can see that happening Ken, but what would stop someone from intercepting it even if he got on the phone and requested it?
Anonymous on 2009-07-20:
DB, you should have asked to speak with a supervisor.
DebtorBasher on 2009-07-20:
Yeah, I know....I just get aggravated with people anymore.
Anonymous on 2009-07-20:
Basher, Have you thought about creating a living trust for your father or having your father grant you power of attorney.

I went through having to handle the affairs for my mother and another elderly family member. In both cases I was the trustee for their trust which gave me absolute authority in their business affairs. If a trust isn't in order then you should definitely get power of attorney. Look into it.. it will save you a lot of headaches down the road.
DebtorBasher on 2009-07-20:
Thanks Crabby...I did get POA about a month ago for my Dad. I'll have to start sending copies out to these places.
yoke on 2009-07-20:
Db, sorry about your mom. When dad died we sent POA's to his creditors and had no problem. I understand why they did what they did, but even talking to your dad does not mean he was your dad, but for some reason that was going to be good enough for them.
Anonymous on 2009-07-20:
DB, if someone intercepted a normal mailing, they have no control over it, but if someone requests a special mailing and it turns out to be fraudulent, they would have liability.
Anonymous on 2009-07-20:
Don't the terms change on credit cards through the years? I know mine do. I can check the current terms of my account right on-line. If I don't agree to the terms, they give me the option of cancelling my card, otherwise the new terms take effect. Isn't that the way all credit cards work? Anyway, my point is, can you access her account on-line to see what the terms are?
DebtorBasher on 2009-07-20:
Thanks Ken, that's probably is the reason...but people STILL aggravate me...guess they're just doing their jobs.

KIA, she never had online access to any accounts, she never liked computers or anything...she was old school, kept track of everything with a pen, and notebook...got to say, her system never went down or was stopped in its tracks by a virus! Bless her soul! I may be able to set it up online now though.
Anonymous on 2009-07-20:
VH
BokiBean on 2009-07-20:
And DB rocks again! I'm like you...if you sent them a check, they'd be more than happy to take it, but woe be it if you need something from them. VH, as usual.
Anonymous on 2009-07-21:
Yeah, DB, that's what I was thinking. If you can set it up on-line, then you won't have to hassle with the calls and 30 questions. I went through this with my mother's insurance and it wasn't easy until I put the POA through. On-line would have been much easier.
Anonymous on 2009-07-22:
(VH)
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National City Bank Horrible Service
Posted by on
This is absolutely the worst bank. I try to maintain excellent credit and they continue to make errors which destroys my credit. Thi happened on two occasions and now I no longer use this bank and never will again. The first case I had a credit card with them and had it linked directly to my checking account so that payments would be made automatically. I always made sure that there was more than enough money in my checking account. One day my credit card was rejected and then I found out that the credit card was cancelled and on top of that my credit report indicated that National City Bank had me in collections. To make a long story short, they made some sort of error and cancelled the card by mistake and disabled the direct payment. HOW LAME IS THAT??

It took a lot of time and stress to deal with them and get them to fix that. I did not get a new credit card with them since they were so incompetent, but I still had a checking account. More problems came about. I changed addresses and I made sure to file the change of address in person. They messed that up too. They sent my mail to everywhere but my address. Somehow they had addresses in South Carolina and Michigan on file when the address that I gave them was in Florida. How do they make these dumb mistakes??
They eventually over drafted my account with some unauthorized fraudulent transactions then closed my account. They never mailed anything to me and I did not find out until months later when another bank did a background check and informed me. I reported the fraud to them and they said that they would file a claim and replace the money.

That never happened, instead they put the matter into collections and ruined my credit. When I called their loss prevention department to clear up the issue, their customer service rep was very rude to me and made it clear that she was not willing to help in any way then she hung up on me. That was the worst and most frustrating part.....she actually refused to help and hung up on me. This is not acceptable at all. Please do not use National city bank. I really don't want people to have to go through what I am currently going through.
     
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sarahnkrystal on 2008-03-18:
Ouch. Sounds like a painful experience. Thank you for sharing it.
herchmer on 2008-05-20:
I have experienced the same thing. Near the end of last month my car payment went through for over $400 (so far so good). At the end of the month it went through a second time electronically (charged $34 for over draft). Today the same check that had magically gone through twice went through a third time.

National City customer service informed me that it was an issue with our bank however they sent this in 3 times. Additionally, their customer service said "well, now you don't need to make any more payments until July!". I informed them my wife had recently been laid off to which he responded "it appears as though you make enough to cover this".

I am still trying to collect my lower jaw from my kitchen floor. I demanded to speak with a supervisor and was told I was not allowed to do so ... and then ... the National City customer service representative hung up the phone!

I am amazed and outraged. Never once did I hear "what can we due to help you" or "what can we due to rectify this situation"

Bottom line ... avoid this bank like the plague!


billmcintee on 2008-07-09:
Their system is foul and untrustworthy...for some reason, it does the math to make sure that you never see a "negative" balance if you have one so that you can get to it and put the money in to "correct" the issue...instead they love to assess those overdrafts...I received 8 in a period of two and half weeks...I'm gettin' the H*LL out of there a.s.a.p...
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Don't Get Ripped Off By National City... Highway Robbery...
Posted by on
I think that I've just finally come to the point that I'm going to start paying for cash for EVERYTHING. if a bank can set up their computer TAKE YOUR MONEY when it's there and available and then BOUNCE your checks for the money that was would have been there if they didn't take it. WOW, THIS IS A CRIME. how can they impose NSF charges on MONEY THAT WAS THERE. they're posting nsf charges on money that's there, then because they've taken it, they post your checks as bounced to justify the nsf charges that posted BEFORE the check. had they not posted the charges, MY CHECKS WOULD HAVE CLEARED!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a class action lawsuit for Bank of America and they need to file another, or widen the scope to include ANY BANK that COMMITS THIS CRIME.. God knows, if I took money from the bank they would pursue me in court!!!!!
     
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Anonymous on 2009-08-09:
"how can they impose NSF charges on MONEY THAT WAS THERE"?

The can't. The money wasn't there. You cannot possibly have an overdraft if there were sufficient available funds in the account when you wrote the check, or swiped your card. It's just that simple.
Soaring Consumer on 2009-08-09:
From what I understand, the OP had money in the account, the bank withdrew fees for no reason, resulting in a check bouncing, then claimed that the fees were generated because the check bounced.

Whitedove, can you confirm this is your situation? Or are there more details?
PepperElf on 2009-08-09:
unless the OP had pending transactions she or he didn't take into account before writing more checks
Anonymous on 2009-08-09:
It's not the banks that take out the money, it's the merchants that take out the money of the account that's owed them whether it's a debit or credit purchase. Perhaps this is another case of a forgotten purchase that was taken out... and at that same time a check cleared. Or an auto debit that was taken out and forgotten about until then... and, at the same time a check cleared.
yoke on 2009-08-10:
This post is confusing. Is what the op saying that they had the money to cover everything and the banks decided to charge NSF's for all the transactions and then put in all the debits and credits? How would the bank know how many NSF's to charge in advance if the funds were there?
madconsumer on 2009-08-10:
was the deposit available and not pending or on hold?
Suusan B. on 2009-08-10:
It sounds to me like the OP might be saying that he/she had enough money in the account (or thought they did) but something bounced causing a NSF fee which then lowered their available balance?? Anyway you look at it, if that was sufficient available funds and all transactions were accounted for in a paper check register the OP would never have been charged a NSF fee.
whitedove1968 on 2009-08-10:
I know it sounds confusing. I HAD the money available for 2 of the 3 checks to clear for that day. they posted 3 NSF charges BEFORE bouncing ANY of the checks. THEN they posted the 3 checks for that day, thus bouncing all 3 of the checks even though there was money to clear 2 of the checks. this bank is notorious for manipulating funds and charges in order to cause bouncing. this is something that quite a few banks are doing now. there is a class action lawsuit against bank of America right now because they were doing the same thing. this is not the first occurrence of NCB doing this and won't be the last. If they hadn't of imposed undue NSF charges I would have had 1 instead of 3. not only that they take money out of your account for 2 days and then bounce it back causing all of your other checks to bounce. it's a game of money manipulation. GOOGLE the information on the class action lawsuit. it may explain it better. I wanted to add National City of banks to avoid. unless your account balance is so high that there is no need to worry about this. but beware, if it gets remotely low, your shark bate!!!
yoke on 2009-08-11:
You are supposed to have the money for all the checks. The bank did nothing wrong, unless of course you called and told them which checks they could clear and which checks they could not clear.
sharpasice on 2010-02-17:
Whitedove..read my review of National City that I posted just today.. Feb 17th...EXACTLY the same thing is happening to me!!! I totally believe you!
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Missing $80.00
Posted by on
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS -- On 5/29/09 I checked my bank account. A variety of transactions had been posted along with one pending, in the amount of $60.00. The following day I checked. No new transactions had come through and the same one was pending but suddenly my account was -$188.00. How is this possible? The same transactions had been there the previous day, all with positive balances left. I've spoken with two different branch managers at National City's near me. Neither is willing to help me, explain where this money has gone, or refund me the overdraft charges (3 in total, each at $36.00 a piece). BOth of them act as if this is my fault because I am not being diligent enough of with my money. THe fact is, this is the second time this has happened. I went along with their reasoning, thinking maybe I did drop the ball somewhere the first time. THe last few months I have been ridiculously diligient...checking my account as many as 4 times a day. In less that 10 hours my account went from positive to negative without any new transactions being posted. I am also accruing an additional $8.00 per day until I deposit money after being told by one manager that he would put a freeze on my account until I could reach a resolution. This is unacceptable behavior. I have already opened a new account at a competing bank and will be closing this account. How any corporation can operate this way and get away with it is beyond me.
     
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madconsumer on 2009-06-04:
do you keep a paper register as well?
old fart on 2009-06-04:
Keeping both is an easy way to avoid your situation
Anonymous on 2009-06-04:
Most banks will post payments to your account, but the funds aren't available for withdrawal until the payment clears. Withdrawing against pending payments will lead to an overdraft if there aren't sufficient funds.
Anonymous on 2009-06-04:
It *is* your fault. You assume that because you have no pending items that the balance is available to spend. In lieu of a check register, how would you know differently? The fact is that not all unpaid items will show as pending. That's just the way the debit system works.

If you're not willing to keep track of your own balance, you might want to think about losing the debit card, and sticking to checks and cash. You'll find it a lot less expensive.
MSCANTBEWRONG on 2009-06-04:
You should also pay attention to your available balance and your current balance.
Ponie on 2009-06-04:
Hey! National City is one of my faves. Never had a problem in all the years I've been with them. But I don't mess with a debit card. Like Old Fart, I don't just check my balance(s) online--I keep a register also.
old fart on 2009-06-04:
Debit card transactions are not hard to keep track of... just put the receipt in your pocket or wallet and when you get home, enter them in the check register!!

It just isn't that hard to do unless you're a total unremitting [snip]!

I literally LIVE off of my debit card and haven't had an overdraft in 30 years...
Ponie on 2009-06-04:
I'm too scatter brained to do what you do, Old Fart. I'd jam those pieces of paper into my pants pocket--and forget about them until I emptied them when taking them to the cleaners. :) Also, since I like to keep that register current, it's a nuisance (to me) to have to list a bunch of little expenditures. I use a credit card for the majority of my purchases. Heck--I even put a 75ยข bag of M&Ms a while ago on it. But whatever floats your boat. We both keep accurate records of our $$ but in different ways.
yoke on 2009-06-05:
OF, the problem is people are relying to much on the online banking account balances and not on their check registers. The complaints that we read hear usually have the same whine, the balance from my online banking said I had enough money so I spent it and now they are charging me NSF and won't refund the fees. Very few will say I made in error in my check register and that is why I have NSF and the bank won't refund the fee's.
We use our debit card all the time and never get NSF. I very rarely look at our online balance because I know it may not show all transactions. I usually only do it to check to see if direct deposits have posted.
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
The root problem is debit cards and people living payday to payday. It's too easy to make a mistake ya know for those of us who make mistakes which of course excludes about 75% of the my3cents regulars but if you're like me and you have the capacity to make a mistake every now and then and if you live from payday to payday then the debit card is not your friend. The risk is too great for the reward.
goduke on 2009-06-05:
Quicken has an online solution you can use. Last time I checked it was about $3.95 a month.
yoke on 2009-06-05:
crabman, I do make mistakes, but I don't blame others when I do. The people that come on here to complain about the excessive NSF's that they get do not take any responsibility except to say that according to what their online banking balance said I had enough money to spend so I did. It should not matter if you live paycheck to paycheck, we do, and I still don't get NSF since I only spend what we have.
yoke on 2009-06-05:
qoduke, banks have a free solution it is called a check register.
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
Yoke, I've never had an NSF fee either not because of my exceptional book keeping skills but rather due to my fortunate birth. That's beside the point. Excessive unfair NSF fee's has nothing to do with keeping an accurate checkbook register. I agree people should keep a good accounting of their checking account but a nickel mistake shouldn't result in over a $100 of NSF fees. No amount of condescension or finger wagging will ever change my view on that.

BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
Amen to that, Crabs!
yoke on 2009-06-05:
crabman, Excessive NSF's does have to do with not keeping an accurate checkbook register. I do agree that if you make a mistake ONE time the bank should help out and usually they do, even BofA does. It sounds to me that the ones that are coming onto this site complaining are the ones that are always getting NSF's and the banks have said no more to them. There comes a point where the consumer has to take responsibility for their own actions. They know how much they spent, even if it does not show up on their online statement for a few days.
BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
yoke, so basically your theory is that they are all deadbeats and deserve it no matter how the banks choose to gouge them...
old fart on 2009-06-05:
I agree with Yoke... personal responsibility is the key to keeping the NSF chrges out of your hair..

75 % of those kinds of complaints is just pure plain irresponsiblity and laziness and I have no sympathy for those dipshyts that refuse to learn the obvious lesson..

It takes all of 15 seconds to write a transaction in to the check register... just do it!
BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
Yeah old fart, that is all well and good, but "keeping them out of your hair" is not justification for them. Its just denial.
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
My take on this is that they were simply lookin' for an explanation of the fees not placing blame. Isn't it the banks responsibility to provide this basic service to their customers or is this asking too much? Oh and here's a novel idea --- if I'm a bank and I see I have a customer that overdraws, maybe I could offer to educate them on how to keep accurate records? Gee willikers I wonder if that would actually help people learn how to keep accurate records, rather than attaching a bunch of fees to someone's account that is already struggling sure isn't the way to do it.
BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
Tater, that would make too much sense and probably cut down a lot of the millions of dollars that banks make from excessive fees every year. ;)

I remember when banks routinely paid checks that were overdrawn and only charged NSF fees for customers who made a habit of overdrawing too frequently. That was ages and ages ago..back when they used to give you a toaster for opening an account. :D
yoke on 2009-06-05:
tater, should the bank charge for the class to teach you responsibility. If you can't figure out how to balance a check book then you should not have an account. Why is it the banks job to teach you how to do it? When you get your statement in the mail instead of throwing it away and relying on the online balance, balance your checkbook. It is easy and on the back of the statement it actually walks you through the process. It takes about 30 minutes a month to do.
yoke on 2009-06-05:
boki, my CU is giving away 6 Flag tickets if you open an account the month of June or if you refer somebody to the CU and they open an account.
BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
OOOOoooooOOo nice! That is like a blast from the past, yoke.

I remember when gas stations used to give away stuff for filling up there too..glasses, huge helium filled balloons, corning ware.

I used to love 6 Flags, but I think I've gotten too old and crotchety for the long lines anymore. But it would be nice to re-gift those to someone who would enjoy them.
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
Yoke, no they shouldn't charge for the class it should be included in their responsibility to provide customer service. I don't suspect the "class" would take more than 10-15 minutes max to run a customer through how the particular bank puts through debits/credits and how to keep a accurate register. Then not only are they teaching folks how to accurately balance their accounts but likely bringing in life-long customers. I know it's a crazy concept, it's better to charge as many fees as possible and hope to reap a couple million per year off the pour souls who are strugglin' to get by as it is.
yoke on 2009-06-05:
Every once in a while they will do those types of promotions.

My daughter is going to 6 Flags today with school and it is going to rain all day. I feel so bad for them, they worked so hard all year and then they get a yucky day. Oh well, better the teachers having to deal with cold wet kids them me, LOL!
yoke on 2009-06-05:
tater, they give all the info to you when you sign up for the account. You need to read it. When you get your statement it walks you through how to keep an accurate balance. It is called balancing your checkbook. Do you really want the bank to hold your hand?
old fart on 2009-06-05:
Yoke... you are absolutely correct!

If anyone bothers to look at the back of their bank statement, all the info you need to balance the checkbook is there complete with all the +'s and -'s needed to complete the job.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO SYMPATHY for someone who fails to do that, crying "poor little me, that big ole' bank is pickin' on me"!!
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
Yoke it could be a neverending argument for some but for others that understand the human element to such things it makes sense. I surely hope you've never talked to a live person on anything you received all the info on b/c according to your theory we don't need those services.
old fart on 2009-06-05:
What would happen if the banks only charged 10 percent of the amount of the over draft as a penalty...
A $10 dollar OD would only be ONE dollar.. hardly a deterrent to overdrawing your account is it?!

When you start seeing $50 dollar OD penalties, you start to pay attention to details, don't you?!
yoke on 2009-06-05:
tater, I do understand the human element, but give me a break. When you buy a coffee maker at Walmart does the cashier explain how the item works or do you go home and read the instructions? Is there a cashier there to show you how to hook up the coffee maker and start the machine the very first time? Should cashiers at stores be obligated to the same service that you are expecting of the bank tellers? According to your theory we need that kind of service.

OF, that would be a good idea to charge 10% of the amount of overdraft. People would start to think the $36 NSF was a bargin.
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
Yoke, if I bought a coffee maker took it home and couldn't figure out how to make the dang thing work even after reading the instructions what should I do? Throw it away and consider it a bad investment on my part or call the customer service # listed on the instructions and ask for help? When setting up a bank account it IS a good idea for the bank employee to walk the new customer through all the details, including how the bank puts through transactions as well as tips on how to keep accurate records to avoid NSF's. To insinuate I also meant that a store should personally show a customer how to set up and operate a coffee maker before taking it home is like comparing apples to oranges and I'm almost positive you already knew that.
yoke on 2009-06-05:
tater, you would call customer service, just like you should when you have a problem with your checking account. I would not expect Walmart to have a class to show me how to work the coffee maker, would you?
Every time I have set up a new account at a bank I have always been given the information I need as to their rules. I read them, therefore I know how my bank is going to work. There is NO reason a bank should give you tips on how to keep an accurate record so you will not get any NSF. It is quite simple. Do not spend more than what is in your account. How is a class going to help you understand that? If you don't have the concept that you can not spend more than you have you have no right to have a checking account. It is common sense.
BokiBean on 2009-06-05:
Ya'll are missing the point with this OP. No new transactions came through, and the same fee was pending but their account is $80 to the bad and the bank can't explain it. Why are we assuming that they did something wrong?
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
Yoke, its alarming that someone has such negative stance towards educating people on how to manage their finances. Again, to insinuate that I said any store should offer a class on how to set up and operate a coffee maker is like comparing apples to oranges. The facts are really quite clear here. Banks know they will make millions in NSF fees and if they took more time to educate new account holders when they were opening an account, chances are they'd see quite a reduction in those fees, eh? Imagine if banks offered free seminars to their customers on the basics of smart money management. Oh the possibilities when we start thinking outside the box instead of staying in our comfortable little silos.

BokiBean, excellent point. It's also human nature to assume someone did something wrong, that is until it happens to us, then it couldn't possibly be our fault! <;-)
yoke on 2009-06-05:
tat, I don't have a negative stance towards educating people how to mange their finances. I don't see how it should be the banks job to hold your hand and show you how to balance a checkbook. Back in my day we learned how to do it on our own. For the younger generation they can take classes in school, my son has done it, there are classes at community centers that offer basic finance. Yes it would be nice if the banks did it, but where does it end. Do you want the bank to balance all the checkbooks for the people who can't?
Ponie on 2009-06-05:
TaT, in regard to: 'Imagine if banks offered free seminars to their customers on the basics of smart money management.' Many banks do just that, although it's focused more on financial planning and planning for your future. National City is one of the institutions that occasionally offers this service, at no charge. Perhaps I ass/u/me too much but by the time a person is able to open their own checking/savings acount, they ordinarily have the basics of 1+1=2, 2+2=4, etc. I've long advocated our public school system have a class in basic money management by the time students enter high school. But instead they have classes as early as 2nd grade on 'Jimmy Has Two Mommies,' which they evidently consider of greater importance.
Anonymous on 2009-06-05:
Ponie, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Many folks do assume too much, hence my multiple comments on educating, educating, educating. Not everyone is taught or has the foresight to educate themselves and money is something that nobody likes to lose out on due to simple misunderstandings.

Yoke, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't want to wear out my welcome here going back and forth over something that we both feel very strongly about. I do agree there is consumer responsibility to know and understand how to manager one's finances, but simply put, many don't and as long as there are those that don't banks will continue to reap huge profits from them.
yoke on 2009-06-05:
tat, agree. Lets agree to disagree.

Ponie, my kids HS is trying to make Personal Finance a requirement for graduation. My oldest took it this year. It was great. I am going to make sure my other 2 also take the course before they graduate. It is a difficult class to get into since it fills up fast.
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Never Bank With National City
Posted by on
ALL STATES -- National city is by far the worst bank I have ever dealt with. I opened a checking account when I was 12 and have had relationships with previous banks, but nothing as horrible as this... Their customer service is rude, unavailable, inattentive, careless, makes mistakes, and lacks communication.

They charge ridiculous, astronomical fees for nothing and are more concerned about making money than keeping their clients happy. Don't bother reading the fine print on any of their contracts- they make up their own rules as they go along anyway.

My entire family quit banking here because they are horrible...

No wonder they had to be bailed out. Never use this bank!!!
     
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tnchuck100 on 2009-02-05:
Specifics?
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National City Bank = Overdraft Fee ($34 For 0.3cent )
Posted by on
MICHIGAN -- Be careful when you bank with NATIONAL CITY

It looks like National city wants to save its sinking ship by stealing its unfortunate customers. Look for overdraft fees ($34 each instance)in your next statement. I had 5 of them in a single day. Hard to believe? They think they can fool the customers. unfortunately no body is going to save you. Do not even think of getting it reversed.

I had two wire transfers on one day. Knowing this I personally visited the branch and deposited a check worth much more than that amount. Smartly they put a hold on my check until next day in order to make me to pay over draft 3 times, one for 3 cents. They debited the largest amount first so that next all transactions on the same day comes with their special ($102).

More over it looks like many employees are not happy with the bank either. May be due to not secured jobs or pay reductions. Time to think about other banks.



     
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Anonymous on 2008-11-14:
Checks do not credit immediately. The only way to get an amount instantly credited to your account is to use cash.
jktshff1 on 2008-11-14:
overdraft is overdraft .03 or $3,000.00.
'Least it's .03 and not .02 like McDonald's
TGT101 on 2008-11-14:
Keep track of your finances. The only complaints I hear about banks are because people don't keep track and when they overdraft it is never their fault.
Anonymous on 2008-11-14:
You should have to pass a common sense test before you are allowed to have a checking account.
Ponie on 2008-11-14:
National City has been one of my banks for years. I have never had a problem with them. Of course that may be because I don't try to spend money I don't have.

'More over it looks like many employees are not happy with the bank either.' Please state your reliable source. Whenever I've gone into one of their branches, there was never a hint that 'many employees' were not happy with the bank. Are you old enough to have a checking account? You really don't sound as though you are.
Cyane on 2008-11-15:
I'd say NCB employees are stressed about their job security rather than actually unhappy about the bank. They may be unhappy with the decisions that Peter Raskind has made for the bank. But likely there is little to no information being provided to employees regarding the merger to PNC.
BobJohn on 2008-11-17:
"I had 5 of them in a single day. Hard to believe?" Yes, it is hard to believe that anyone would have so little control or understanding of their finances that they would overdraft 5 times in one day.
yoke on 2008-11-17:
If you knew you were going to have 2 wire transfers pending why did you wait to deposit the check?
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