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"How a $1.15 error cost one Target store over $8000 a year in sales?"
Target Red Card - Complaint
Review by wave877 on 2012-08-16
Rating: 
MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA -- A difference without distinction! That's what you'll run into if you ever have a problem with Target's branded charge card. Several weeks ago I received a letter from Target. It stated that my Red Card account had been incorrectly credited approximately $50 due to some unexplained internal error. Fine, except on the next month's statement there was an interest charge of $1.15 for my "borrowing" that $50 while it was showing as a credit in my account. So now I have to take time out of my busy day to get this cleared up. Not only didn't I want to pay the interest charge, but with so much identity theft going on I wanted a true explanation as to what prompted Red Card to credit my account in the first place and then charge me a fee for it. Here's what I did and what I want to share about Target and the Red Card-
1: The Call Center is way off shore. By that I mean I couldn't cut through the CSR's accent and I don't believe she could understand me..not to mention the static and poor sound quality on the cheap VOIP lines.
2: After 3 disconnects and over 2 hours I got my $1.15 back. However I felt I was scolded for this being my fault. CSR said if I hadn't requested the original credit this would have never happened and Red Card was doing me a favor by letting me off the hook. Remember, I never requested the credit in the first place and had received a letter of apology from Target alerting me to their error and apologizing for the mistake. After my scolding, I became even more concerned about identity theft and requested an explanation and details surrounding that mysterious credit. I was told only one person in the universe could answer that question: Jay. I asked to be transferred to Jay and got his voice mail. I left my daytime number and my cell phone number, but Jay only called back my daytime number at 7pm and left me a voice mail and a return number to call him back. In his message he also scolded me for not leaving my home number so he could cross reference my account info before he called. When I returned the call to his direct line, guess what? Back to square one. I got another low level CSR who wanted to start at the beginning again before transferring me to Jay. Nonsense. I hung up.
3. I called my Target store to discuss with manager on duty. She said she would research and get back to me.
4. Three days later no response so I stopped by store. Manager said she had been off on scheduled break and left note for another manager.. so nothing had been done. She would get right on it.
5 Later Manager notifies me Target Red Card is a different company from Target Retail and there is nothing they can do to help me find out what happened. They cannot even request a person with authority at Red Card contact me. Not the same company??? Wait a minute. They're the same company to me. What are they doing to distinguish themselves as different entities. The Target cashiers are the ones who pushed the card on me every time I checked-out, they have their name & logo on the card, and the call center answers phone as Target. Surely Red Card adds a little something to Target's bottom line.
Not believing what I was hearing I crafted the following email and sent to admin@Target.com;customerservice@Target.com, webmaster@Target.com and a few other email addresses I guessed at.
*** "How can a $1.15 error cost one Target store over $8000 a year in sales?" ***
$8000 is approx how much my household spent at our local Target pharmacy last year. That doesn't include the tens of thousands we've spent on RX over the past several years. Nor does it include all the toys, bicycles, groceries, home goods, cleaning supplies, toiletries, etc we've purchased. Every bit of that business is about to depart forever... all because of a buck and some change. Your store manager says she is helpless to resolve my issue. Call me if you're interested in discussing retaining my business or even if you're just curious. Or you can simply wait until I share my experience on the internet.
END OF LETTER
I can't say I was too surprised but the Next Day I heard from Peggy. (email through this post if you want her #)I had to call her back so the number was good. She told me she was not in customer service but actually in the corporate office.
But Peggy only repeated what the manager had told me. Credit Card and Target are separate entities. If I wanted answers I was on my own. I requested that she have someone from Red Card call me since I did not want to start with a low level CSR again. Nope. Please call that same number (you've already spent hours getting the run around on). You would think even if Red Card was another company, Mr (Just google Target CEO) [snip] or his board might have some clout to push Red Card to contact me. But Peggy and CEO Bob decided to stand their ground without escalating my issue. So me, my cash and my insurance walked with our $8000 of business. So beware. Don't sign up for or use the Red Card. When this unknown Credit Card company makes an error on your statement, or if you suspect identity theft, you are on your own. You are at the mercy of some offshore CSR whose Americanized name will be Mary or Eric but will barely speak or understand English.
I guess $8000 wouldn't mean much to CEO who Forbes reported made $39.63 million last year. But ask the part-time pharm tech how many hours she'll be cut back due to the loss of revenue at her pharmacy. (She told me her hours were based on # of scripts filled. Our 10 RX per month would be tough to replace and she expected to be cut back) I wonder how many retailers would chomp at the bit to acquire an $8000/yr account. Not Target. They are having a record year. The board will be too busy deciding how many bonuses to pay themselves and how much more they can charge their employees for those official red shirts they're required to wear.
1: The Call Center is way off shore. By that I mean I couldn't cut through the CSR's accent and I don't believe she could understand me..not to mention the static and poor sound quality on the cheap VOIP lines.
2: After 3 disconnects and over 2 hours I got my $1.15 back. However I felt I was scolded for this being my fault. CSR said if I hadn't requested the original credit this would have never happened and Red Card was doing me a favor by letting me off the hook. Remember, I never requested the credit in the first place and had received a letter of apology from Target alerting me to their error and apologizing for the mistake. After my scolding, I became even more concerned about identity theft and requested an explanation and details surrounding that mysterious credit. I was told only one person in the universe could answer that question: Jay. I asked to be transferred to Jay and got his voice mail. I left my daytime number and my cell phone number, but Jay only called back my daytime number at 7pm and left me a voice mail and a return number to call him back. In his message he also scolded me for not leaving my home number so he could cross reference my account info before he called. When I returned the call to his direct line, guess what? Back to square one. I got another low level CSR who wanted to start at the beginning again before transferring me to Jay. Nonsense. I hung up.
3. I called my Target store to discuss with manager on duty. She said she would research and get back to me.
4. Three days later no response so I stopped by store. Manager said she had been off on scheduled break and left note for another manager.. so nothing had been done. She would get right on it.
5 Later Manager notifies me Target Red Card is a different company from Target Retail and there is nothing they can do to help me find out what happened. They cannot even request a person with authority at Red Card contact me. Not the same company??? Wait a minute. They're the same company to me. What are they doing to distinguish themselves as different entities. The Target cashiers are the ones who pushed the card on me every time I checked-out, they have their name & logo on the card, and the call center answers phone as Target. Surely Red Card adds a little something to Target's bottom line.
Not believing what I was hearing I crafted the following email and sent to admin@Target.com;customerservice@Target.com, webmaster@Target.com and a few other email addresses I guessed at.
*** "How can a $1.15 error cost one Target store over $8000 a year in sales?" ***
$8000 is approx how much my household spent at our local Target pharmacy last year. That doesn't include the tens of thousands we've spent on RX over the past several years. Nor does it include all the toys, bicycles, groceries, home goods, cleaning supplies, toiletries, etc we've purchased. Every bit of that business is about to depart forever... all because of a buck and some change. Your store manager says she is helpless to resolve my issue. Call me if you're interested in discussing retaining my business or even if you're just curious. Or you can simply wait until I share my experience on the internet.
END OF LETTER
I can't say I was too surprised but the Next Day I heard from Peggy. (email through this post if you want her #)I had to call her back so the number was good. She told me she was not in customer service but actually in the corporate office.
But Peggy only repeated what the manager had told me. Credit Card and Target are separate entities. If I wanted answers I was on my own. I requested that she have someone from Red Card call me since I did not want to start with a low level CSR again. Nope. Please call that same number (you've already spent hours getting the run around on). You would think even if Red Card was another company, Mr (Just google Target CEO) [snip] or his board might have some clout to push Red Card to contact me. But Peggy and CEO Bob decided to stand their ground without escalating my issue. So me, my cash and my insurance walked with our $8000 of business. So beware. Don't sign up for or use the Red Card. When this unknown Credit Card company makes an error on your statement, or if you suspect identity theft, you are on your own. You are at the mercy of some offshore CSR whose Americanized name will be Mary or Eric but will barely speak or understand English.
I guess $8000 wouldn't mean much to CEO who Forbes reported made $39.63 million last year. But ask the part-time pharm tech how many hours she'll be cut back due to the loss of revenue at her pharmacy. (She told me her hours were based on # of scripts filled. Our 10 RX per month would be tough to replace and she expected to be cut back) I wonder how many retailers would chomp at the bit to acquire an $8000/yr account. Not Target. They are having a record year. The board will be too busy deciding how many bonuses to pay themselves and how much more they can charge their employees for those official red shirts they're required to wear.
Comments:
Posted by ChuhBaca on 2012-08-16:
To the OP, good for you! Target is quick to dismiss and issues brought to their attention by a customer. They really just want you to shut up and give them your money.
I also understand that their store card is run by a 3rd party; but this third party is using their name and logo! This card is part of the customer's experience with Target. Target has an obligation to make sure that anyone representing them, is taking care of Target customers. In this case, it seems that the third party is giving you the classic Target treatment.
I also understand that their store card is run by a 3rd party; but this third party is using their name and logo! This card is part of the customer's experience with Target. Target has an obligation to make sure that anyone representing them, is taking care of Target customers. In this case, it seems that the third party is giving you the classic Target treatment.
Posted by trmn8r on 2012-08-16:
I personally would have persisted at the Target Red Card telephone numbers. To exert leverage, I would concentrate not on my yearly expenditures at the Target pharmacy, but the amount I charged each month on the Red Card.
My guess is if you pursued this further, they may have said "we messed up - it has been corrected." Lacking that, you appear to be on the cusp of doing a bit of work to shift to a new store, though you did get the $1.15. back
My guess is if you pursued this further, they may have said "we messed up - it has been corrected." Lacking that, you appear to be on the cusp of doing a bit of work to shift to a new store, though you did get the $1.15. back
Posted by jktshff1 on 2012-08-16:
One of the best, well written reviews I've seen here
Posted by Cwazychicken on 2012-08-16:
Im sick of being asked to sign up for a target red card every time i shop there....every store does this. So in my opinion, if a card like this fails to make me happy, i would also put some blame on the company and not want to shop there...even if its not all their fault.
Posted by JISCal2 on 2012-08-16:
The crap Target puts people through whether its the Red Card or just general customer service is summed up nicely in this review. They are the most unhelpful business I have ever encountered. Excuse my language but they run a business as if their pooh smelled like roses and to he11 with anyone who anyone who disagrees with them.
Pass the buck and you don't matter to us must be their mission statement.
Pass the buck and you don't matter to us must be their mission statement.
Posted by madconsumer on 2012-08-16:
very helpful comment jis-cal2!!
Posted by copper_works_ on 2012-08-16:
Seriously! Could they fly under the Target banner anymore then they do?
"REDCARD®: TARGET Credit CARD® IS ISSUED BY TARGET NATIONAL BANK, AN AFFILIATE OF TARGET STORES. SUBJECT TO CREDIT APPROVAL."
http://sites.target.com/images/redcard_ap/DEC11/redcards_web_credit_app_120111.pdf
"REDCARD®: TARGET Credit CARD® IS ISSUED BY TARGET NATIONAL BANK, AN AFFILIATE OF TARGET STORES. SUBJECT TO CREDIT APPROVAL."
http://sites.target.com/images/redcard_ap/DEC11/redcards_web_credit_app_120111.pdf
Posted by wave877 on 2012-08-17:
Author Feedback:
To FoDaddy19: "Almost always" kind of leaves the door open. Perhaps I wasn't fully clear. My issue is that Target (the retailer) offered no assistance in helping me resolve my concerns with their licensee. Did not Target make the executive decision to partner with this entity? They should be able to pick up the phone and get their associates on a case. As the owner of 2 businesses, if one of my contractors mistreated one of my customers and jeopardized my business relationship I would be on the phone in an instant and suggest my partner follow up and make it right...especially if my name were on their service. But I'm sure the board has made the decison that the profit from Red Card far outweighs any customers' issues. I didn't put every detail in the article. Already way too long to begin with. But I was transferred or placed on hold twice with the credit card company and both times the calls were disconnected. Each time I called, I had to start over. They were rude and seemed to deliberately avoid addressing or escalating my issue. I invested more time than I should have or perhaps even you would have. That's when I turned to the local store. All Target had to do was get someone from Red Card to call me and explain when and why the original credit was posted to my account. Not sure why they chose to let me walk. Lost revenue, but now I see at least 300 people have viewed this article on this site alone so far. It's been/being posted elsewhere as well.
To FoDaddy19: "Almost always" kind of leaves the door open. Perhaps I wasn't fully clear. My issue is that Target (the retailer) offered no assistance in helping me resolve my concerns with their licensee. Did not Target make the executive decision to partner with this entity? They should be able to pick up the phone and get their associates on a case. As the owner of 2 businesses, if one of my contractors mistreated one of my customers and jeopardized my business relationship I would be on the phone in an instant and suggest my partner follow up and make it right...especially if my name were on their service. But I'm sure the board has made the decison that the profit from Red Card far outweighs any customers' issues. I didn't put every detail in the article. Already way too long to begin with. But I was transferred or placed on hold twice with the credit card company and both times the calls were disconnected. Each time I called, I had to start over. They were rude and seemed to deliberately avoid addressing or escalating my issue. I invested more time than I should have or perhaps even you would have. That's when I turned to the local store. All Target had to do was get someone from Red Card to call me and explain when and why the original credit was posted to my account. Not sure why they chose to let me walk. Lost revenue, but now I see at least 300 people have viewed this article on this site alone so far. It's been/being posted elsewhere as well.
Posted by JISCal2 on 2012-08-17:
$1.15 would change my shopping patters. Would it stop at $1.15 or would it continue until Target knows how far they can push a customer? Even then, they don't stop!
The mentality at Target is anti-consumer, period. This is demonstrated by their cusotmer service team, the fact that district managers refuse to take a call from a customer when the issue cannot be resolved at the store level and the indifference shown by managers in the store.
The mentality at Target is anti-consumer, period. This is demonstrated by their cusotmer service team, the fact that district managers refuse to take a call from a customer when the issue cannot be resolved at the store level and the indifference shown by managers in the store.
Posted by FoDaddy19 on 2012-08-17:
To wave877: I use the phrase "Almost always" because few things are absolutes, but in this case it's so common for the company and bank to be separate that the majority of the time it's safe to assume that the both companies are separate entities. Though as copper_works posted, in your specific case The red card is indeed run by a Target-owned company. But in most cases that's not the case; Lowes, Home Depot, Best Buy, Walmart, Kohls, Macy's, and Sears for example all have branded credit cards that are issued by third party banks.
Posted by 8lackie on 2012-09-10:
Target you've been warned. It is this kind of response to your customer-base that will send me to your competitors
Posted by Colleen on 2012-09-10:
I sent my story into My 3 Cents about a 6 month fiasco I endured in trying to reclaim the $ they owed me for an order that didn't arrive, then did arrive but too late. OP is stating 110% truth about the overseas CSRs and American management. I was never so frustrated in my life. I had more than $300.00 to get back and I wasn't sure if I'd ever get thru to the authorized person that I needed that money, PERIOD! I got a $10.00 gift card for the hassle but my money took the full 14 days (not including the months of hassle it caused.) I will NEVER step foot into Target or shop online with them EVER AGAIN.
Posted by Lane on 2012-09-10:
Thank for this eye opening review.
I have heard how they treat assist. managers, real bad. So, I will move my buying to some other store.
Thanks again.
I have heard how they treat assist. managers, real bad. So, I will move my buying to some other store.
Thanks again.
Posted by jpr_jpr on 2012-09-10:
If you happened to miss that the $50 credit was not due to any payment you made, and thought the balance shown was accurate and paid it "in full" you would actually have been $50 short. If they then recaptured the false $50 credit, you would have missed your due date for actual amount due and would have been charged a $35 late fee, and seen a big jump in your interest rate. That is a lot more than a $1.50 charge. Makes me think that the $50 credit was NO error.
Posted by A.J. Rome on 2012-09-11:
The N.A. stands for National Association. They are regulated by a Federal bank regulator (OCC or OTC). They have websites and they MUST be registered with one of them - then you will find their address, etc. Don't let the slime get through your fisted fingers! Write their federal regulator and complain 'till it hurts - THEM.
Posted by Chrissiann on 2012-09-11:
Thank you I will make sure to never fool with that red card!
Posted by Debbie on 2012-09-11:
I used to shop at Target for school supplies. I noticed that aside from nice specials for Back-to-School, the prices are not so special. I stopped getting kids clothes there and finally stopped shopping there. No loss!
Try COSTCO for a pharmacy. The prices are great. It is worth the membership.
Try COSTCO for a pharmacy. The prices are great. It is worth the membership.
Posted by GrammaL on 2012-09-12:
Wave877-This is a really great review-concise and well-written. Would you go over to Consumerist.com and tell this story? It is another consumer site, and this information needs to get to as many people as possible. Consider it you good deed for the month!!
Posted by wave877 on 2012-09-14:
Wow...It's been about 3 weeks since I checked in.The resonse has been fantastic. First I want to thank everyone that's left a comment. I'm amazed at the support. Even the ones written siding with Target. Special thanks to My3Cents for providing the venue. Looks like my Target Red Card experience has cost Target more than just my $8K This article has 791 hits as of tonight. Plus I have posted elsewhere. And Grammal, I will look at Consumerist plus any others anybody can suggest. What I'd really like to do is is try to get my story published in one of the retail trade journals, perhaps under the heading of notable blunders of 2012. I just want to take a few moments to clear up a few things so folks don't go off onto too many tagents and overlook the real issue which is off course Target wants to have an inhouse charge card yet wants to distance themselves from any of the obligations, QA or customer service resonsibilities. First clarification, I recieved a bill from Target Red Card for about $50. I'm not one to reconcile my statements often, especially on a charge card that only has one store's purchases listed. That statement did not show a credit or a return. Even if I had reconciled and reliazed the statement was missing about $30 in charges for the month, I would have simply assumed that $30 missed the cycle and would be on the next bill. I paid 100% of the balance due on the Red Card. So there was no late fee because I paid on time and it was above the minimum payment due(I thought 100%). After making the payment, I received the letter that Target had erronously credited me or left off $30. When I got the next bill, that $30 showed up as due, plus my new purchases plus the interest on that phantom $30. The next item I should clarify is the $8000. This is how much Target shows on the recepts for scripts for our family including a special needs child. However, my insurance covers the lion's share of this. The insurance company reimburses Target directly for more than half. Only about a third of this amount would have gone on the Red Card. Plus I didn't always use my Red Card. I prefer my MasterCard rewards over the Target incentives. Anyway, the total loss to Target (the store) was $8000. The total loss to Target (the charge card company) was probably under $4000. So maybe this wasn't quite painful enough for Red Card to respond. Perhaps all the more reason the store should be looking out for their own interest more deligently (if you still accept the premise Target Card and Target Store are autonimous). Finally, the prescription prices are negotiated rates from the insurance company. So the prices are pretty similar wherever I decide to shop. But I owe Target some thanks. There was a Walgreens nearby willing to pay me $25 to transfer my scripts to them. They also offered another $25 for my wife to do the same (look for details om their website). Furthermore Walgreens offers a lot better service. Their technology is amazing. I can go online to reorder, to review my account and they text me when my order is ready. The quality may even be better. I asked Walgreens why one of my generics was about $2 more than what I had paid at Target, The pharmacist said they won't use some of the maufacturers Target buys from. Hmmmm. And Walgreens pharmacy opens 2 hours earlier and stays open 3 hours later-- much more convenient. Service & price. What a concept. No wonder Target is having record profits. Cutting corners on service, hours and maybe even quality of medication. Anyway, leave message for me if you need info including phone number to Target Corporate
Posted by Secret Squirrel on 2012-10-18:
I just wanted to mention that I have a part-time job as a cashier at Target, and they managers and supervisors started giving me "talks" to literally push Red Cards onto customers. This started 4 days from my initial start date. They were more interested in having cashiers push their Red Cards than they were in the cashiers actually knowing their job well and being able to handle everyday errors (wrong price comes up, no SKU#). If you didn't get at least one person to sign up every shift, you got more talks and were treated very poorly. I had always thought of Target as the anti-Walmart, but they treat their lowly grunt workers very poorly. Just posted you so you'd understand why the cashiers are so obnoxious about pushing those RedCards on you - their job depends on it.
Posted by wave877 on 2012-11-05:
Thanks S. Squirrel. This explains a lot.
Funny how Target claims RedCard is a separate company especially when Target just sold off it's credit card portfolio to a Foreign Bank with the exception of Red Card as reported by several media outlets. Seems Target's income from their credit card portfolio dropped more than 5% last year. They have no problem telling customers RedCard is a separate company...but how can you decide not to sell a company if you don't own at least a portion. It appears honesty is not Target's creed unless it benefits them.
OFFSHORE CALL CENTER, FOREIGN BANK. What's next, offshore sweatshops? Wait, wait, I just Googled "Target sweat shops" and seems they already have that base covered. In fact not so long ago 28 workers making clothes for Target were killed in a massive fire at a sweatshop in Bangladesh. Some were burned to death, some suffocated to death, some jumped to their death, and hundreds more were seriously injured. Perhaps more than a few were just children.
Update: Now over 1000+ readers have reviewed this article. Plus comments have been posted revealing even more of Targets dirty little secrets. Good going Target, considering all I originally wanted was to have a representative contact me to explain why my account was overcharged (since my calls to RedCard came up empty).
Per my earlier post, life without Target Pharmacy has been good to me. Better service and gift cards from Walgreens Pharmacy. And for other purchases, I can't believe how much better Walmart's prices are. At least 5% in my town plus I get to use any credit card I desire.
Funny how Target claims RedCard is a separate company especially when Target just sold off it's credit card portfolio to a Foreign Bank with the exception of Red Card as reported by several media outlets. Seems Target's income from their credit card portfolio dropped more than 5% last year. They have no problem telling customers RedCard is a separate company...but how can you decide not to sell a company if you don't own at least a portion. It appears honesty is not Target's creed unless it benefits them.
OFFSHORE CALL CENTER, FOREIGN BANK. What's next, offshore sweatshops? Wait, wait, I just Googled "Target sweat shops" and seems they already have that base covered. In fact not so long ago 28 workers making clothes for Target were killed in a massive fire at a sweatshop in Bangladesh. Some were burned to death, some suffocated to death, some jumped to their death, and hundreds more were seriously injured. Perhaps more than a few were just children.
Update: Now over 1000+ readers have reviewed this article. Plus comments have been posted revealing even more of Targets dirty little secrets. Good going Target, considering all I originally wanted was to have a representative contact me to explain why my account was overcharged (since my calls to RedCard came up empty).
Per my earlier post, life without Target Pharmacy has been good to me. Better service and gift cards from Walgreens Pharmacy. And for other purchases, I can't believe how much better Walmart's prices are. At least 5% in my town plus I get to use any credit card I desire.
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