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Collection Agencies Informative - Collectors Seek to Modernize Do Not Call Update - Predictive Dialer To Include Cell Phones
Predictive Dialer To Include Cell Phones
November 27, 2007
Collectors Seek to Modernize Do Not Call Update
The collection industry is seeking to use current legislation concerning the Do Not Call list to lift a restriction that is outdated due to current technology: using predictive dialers to call cell phones.
As legislation in the House and the Senate seek to make the Do Not Call list permanent, ACA International of Minneapolis, Minn., is seeking to add an amendment to one of the pending bills to enable bill collectors to use predictive dialers to call cell phones.
Under current law, predictive dialers can be used to call land lines, but not cell phones, explains Rozanne Andersen, ACA International executive vice president and general counsel. While it makes sense for firms to be forbidden from making typical telemarketing calls to cell phones because the recipient has to pay to receive the calls, collectors should be able to use the technology because they are trying to recover a payment obligation from the call recipient, Andersen explained.
The Do Not Call list went into effect in June of 2003, with re-registration needed in June 2008. Collectors are exempt because they’re collecting on an obligation rather than trying to sell additional products and services. ACA officials see the same premise as a basis for the hoped-for amendment.
“The legislation needs to keep up with the technology,” Anderson said. “Some people have gotten rid of their land lines entirely and use only their cell phones.”
The easiest way to get such rules enacted would be to include them as an amendment to one of the existing bills (two in the House, two in the Senate) seeking to change the Do Not Call registry from a list that consumers must re-register for every five years to a permanent list, according to Jacob Heilman, ACA director of federal legislative affairs.
However, initial attempts to do so have been rebuffed by legislators who say the proposed amendment “isn’t germane” to the pending legislation, according to Heilman. While unrelated amendments get attached to bills all the time, legislators want to keep the pending legislation “clean” because it’s a popular issue.
No one wants to be seen as voting against it, so they don’t want an amendment that might cloud the issue, according to Heilman, who adds that it would be much more difficult to get the predictive dialer issue addressed in stand-alone legislation.
by Phil Britt
InsideARM.com
Collectors Seek to Modernize Do Not Call Update
The collection industry is seeking to use current legislation concerning the Do Not Call list to lift a restriction that is outdated due to current technology: using predictive dialers to call cell phones.
As legislation in the House and the Senate seek to make the Do Not Call list permanent, ACA International of Minneapolis, Minn., is seeking to add an amendment to one of the pending bills to enable bill collectors to use predictive dialers to call cell phones.
Under current law, predictive dialers can be used to call land lines, but not cell phones, explains Rozanne Andersen, ACA International executive vice president and general counsel. While it makes sense for firms to be forbidden from making typical telemarketing calls to cell phones because the recipient has to pay to receive the calls, collectors should be able to use the technology because they are trying to recover a payment obligation from the call recipient, Andersen explained.
The Do Not Call list went into effect in June of 2003, with re-registration needed in June 2008. Collectors are exempt because they’re collecting on an obligation rather than trying to sell additional products and services. ACA officials see the same premise as a basis for the hoped-for amendment.
“The legislation needs to keep up with the technology,” Anderson said. “Some people have gotten rid of their land lines entirely and use only their cell phones.”
The easiest way to get such rules enacted would be to include them as an amendment to one of the existing bills (two in the House, two in the Senate) seeking to change the Do Not Call registry from a list that consumers must re-register for every five years to a permanent list, according to Jacob Heilman, ACA director of federal legislative affairs.
However, initial attempts to do so have been rebuffed by legislators who say the proposed amendment “isn’t germane” to the pending legislation, according to Heilman. While unrelated amendments get attached to bills all the time, legislators want to keep the pending legislation “clean” because it’s a popular issue.
No one wants to be seen as voting against it, so they don’t want an amendment that might cloud the issue, according to Heilman, who adds that it would be much more difficult to get the predictive dialer issue addressed in stand-alone legislation.
by Phil Britt
InsideARM.com
Comments:
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
...Yes, I agree with this...it's about time they've step up...the FDCPA does not allow phone calls that will cause charges to the debtor. At that time, they were concerened about collect calls, though it never specified it. While working at NCO, I had to inforce this FDCPA rule to include cell phones, since minutes are paid for.
Posted by Nohandle on 2007-11-27:
Help me out here DB because I selected one sentence out of context, that being: While it makes sense for firms to be forbidden from making typical telemarketing calls to cell phones because the recipient has to pay to receive the calls, collectors should be able to use the technology because they are trying to recover a payment obligation from the call recipient, Andersen explained.
This is your speciality, not mine, but I received a recycled cell phone number and I'm certain many do unless they have had the same number for years. I elected to retain my number since it's one of those easy to remember ones. From almost day one all I received were collection calls for James ** No one had been given my cell phone number. I patiently explained he no longer had the number but that didn't stop the calls. Six months and still going on.
This is your speciality, not mine, but I received a recycled cell phone number and I'm certain many do unless they have had the same number for years. I elected to retain my number since it's one of those easy to remember ones. From almost day one all I received were collection calls for James ** No one had been given my cell phone number. I patiently explained he no longer had the number but that didn't stop the calls. Six months and still going on.
Posted by tnchuck100 on 2007-11-27:
I agree with the intent here, DB. Since many people have gone to cell phone only lifestyles the collection agencies should have access to them.
However, as Nohandle has pointed out, if they are advised the number they are calling no longer belongs to the individual they are seeking they must stop. The problem is they won't stop.
So, if they are going to be permitted to call cell phones by law then the law must also implement a method to severely, surely, and quickly punish those agencies that continue to call when they have been advised they have the wrong number.
However, as Nohandle has pointed out, if they are advised the number they are calling no longer belongs to the individual they are seeking they must stop. The problem is they won't stop.
So, if they are going to be permitted to call cell phones by law then the law must also implement a method to severely, surely, and quickly punish those agencies that continue to call when they have been advised they have the wrong number.
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
Nohandle...I had the same thing happen when I got my cellphone. A collector kept calling for Mrs. *** and it was for a hospital bill. Since the only people who have my number are my parents and family...I only have the phone for emergencies or if I want to make a long distance call. No one calls me on it. Anyway, I get charged each time I pick up a voice mail. After about the 5th time of this collector calling, I changed my recorded greeting to state, "Hi, You've reached DB ... if you are calling for any other person than me, you have the wrong number. This is a personal cellphone and if you are calling for Mrs. **** for a bill, she no longer has this phone number and you will be violation of the FDCPA and will be reported". I never recieved another call again...I left that message on there for about two months, to make sure they got the message. It isn't as long of a message when you state it as it looks when you read it. Being the skip tracer that I am...I tracked Mrs. *** down and added her contact number to my message...
No Handle...if they do not stop calling your cellphone after you told them...send them a letter telling them to remove your phone number...send it certified with a return reciept...then if they call you again, you can sue them for voilation of the FDCPA , harassment...it will be important to keep record of the calls they make once they've received your letter. A print out of a bill would be great, it would show where the call comes from...or, keep it in your voice mail history or whatever way you have of keeping track on your incoming calls.
No Handle...if they do not stop calling your cellphone after you told them...send them a letter telling them to remove your phone number...send it certified with a return reciept...then if they call you again, you can sue them for voilation of the FDCPA , harassment...it will be important to keep record of the calls they make once they've received your letter. A print out of a bill would be great, it would show where the call comes from...or, keep it in your voice mail history or whatever way you have of keeping track on your incoming calls.
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
Chuck...the same FDCPA laws would apply to wrong numbers as they are now...once told they have the wrong number, they must cease calling it. If not, they are in violation of the FDCPA.
Posted by Principissa on 2007-11-27:
DB my sister is having the exact same problem you have. She is getting phone calls for a man named Chuck and they just will not stop. I'm going to tell her to put that on her voice mail. As tacky as it will sound when someone calls that number I'm hoping it will chase them off so they leave her alone.
Posted by Lidman on 2007-11-27:
I disagree with the whole premise of any company seeking to add anything to any legislation when in fact they had there chance when they tried to buy the congress in the first place with there “lobbying” which is just another term for bribery. Adding any amendment for one sector to enable the profit of the sector is an affront to the constitution as far as I am concerned.
“collectors should be able to use the technology because they are trying to recover a payment obligation from the call recipient, Andersen explained.” It is funny how these kinds of things are simply (Black & white) when it comes to what a company wants, yet the people don’t want it and they are considered dead beats that don’t pay there bills. But no one even considers what the situation really is and who the crook really is.
If this continues at the rate it is going soon the collection agencies will be as powerful and as illegal as the IRS, which is nothing more then a collection agency.
If this mess continues we are all going to be led to the fields and put to work as slaves, I tell you it will get out of control.
But this is a very good review Little D. (VH)
“collectors should be able to use the technology because they are trying to recover a payment obligation from the call recipient, Andersen explained.” It is funny how these kinds of things are simply (Black & white) when it comes to what a company wants, yet the people don’t want it and they are considered dead beats that don’t pay there bills. But no one even considers what the situation really is and who the crook really is.
If this continues at the rate it is going soon the collection agencies will be as powerful and as illegal as the IRS, which is nothing more then a collection agency.
If this mess continues we are all going to be led to the fields and put to work as slaves, I tell you it will get out of control.
But this is a very good review Little D. (VH)
Posted by superbowl on 2007-11-27:
DB, you know my story about being called by NCO for the wrong person. so I think there needs to be a law to penalize collection agenices that harass people by calling the wrong number. I told NCO they had the wrong number and thats when they really turned up the heat until I reported them to every government agency I could find.
So if an agency calls the wrong person or number using an auto dialer it can only make the probelm worse? Should we have to burn up our minutes on our cell phone because an agency refuses to stop calling even after being told to do so? I have only had one dealing with an agency and it was NCO so maybe I just had to deal with the worst there is out there? (VH info though)
So if an agency calls the wrong person or number using an auto dialer it can only make the probelm worse? Should we have to burn up our minutes on our cell phone because an agency refuses to stop calling even after being told to do so? I have only had one dealing with an agency and it was NCO so maybe I just had to deal with the worst there is out there? (VH info though)
Posted by Nohandle on 2007-11-27:
DB, I certainly appreciate your advice. Would you believe I've never set up voice mail or anything else on the cellphone? I'm serious. If someone wants to call me it's at the office or home. Anyway, this bat bill collector for James called one day and I answered. I informed her nicely to begin with what had transpired earlier. Apparently she didn't believe me and got somewhat nastly. Well, that's all it took. I gave it to her with both barrels. Well, she rung me out and placed me on the clothes line and then screamed if I didn't want to talk to her to just not answer the phone and then hung up. It was worth it for the laughs then and even now. Others might not appreciate it but I still think it's funny.
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
Super you said, "so I think there needs to be a law to penalize collection agenices that harass people by calling the wrong number"....There ARE laws against it...and for the three years I've been on here, I have been making people aware of that over and over. It doesn't matter if it is a dialer or a manual call...once they are told it is a wrong number, the collector is SUPPOSED to ask the person if they know of the person they are looking for (sometimes it's a relative with the same name). If they don't, they are supposed to remove the number...but there are times, and I've seen this alot...where a collector will have positive contact with the debtor on a Monday, the person ID's themself as the debtor, TALKS to the collector. Then when that person is called the next week, all of a sudden they say it's the wrong number (because they now know you're a bill collector). THOSE are the times most collectors will leave the number on the account. There are mistakes made with lazy skip tracers who do not verify a number as a valid number, but will put the number in the system just because it's the same last name. They do this to pad their number of finds...and this was something that really irrated me as a skip tracer, as a collector and as a quality supervisor.
Posted by Lidman on 2007-11-27:
The worker becomes all the poorer the more wealth he produces, the more his production increases in power and range. The worker becomes an ever cheaper commodity the more commodities he creates. With the increasing value of the world of things proceeds in direct proportion to the devaluation of the world of men. Labour produces not only commodities; it produces itself and the worker as a commodity -- and does so in the proportion in which it produces commodities generally.
Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts (1844)
Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts (1844)
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
Well NoHandle...that is one collector that will get her company sued.
Posted by superbowl on 2007-11-27:
DB, I was not aware that the law was that specific about an agency calling after being told they called the wrong number, really. If it ever I get one of these calls again what law would I tell them they are breaking?
Posted by Principissa on 2007-11-27:
I know this is going to sound silly but I am confused. If I get a call from Jane Doe at X collection agency on my cell phone for someone I don't know, I am charged for those minutes. Now I know that you say to tell them that this person no longer has the number, and also suggested to leave that message on voice mail. But what if they do not stop? My phone bill will get charged for each minute used to explain to people that the person doesn't have the number. Why should people like me have to pay because a collection agency does not believe that I am not who they are looking for?
Posted by Stew.old on 2007-11-27:
superbowl - If you don't have something constructive to add to the dialog then it's best just to 'lurk' and not waste space in the comment section with your fake befuddlement.
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
Super...the reason for it, is because once a collector is told they have the wrong number...it is then considered harassement with each call after. Harassment is considered a High Risk violation...they have high risk and low risk. Tell them they are in violation of harassment under the FDCPA.
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
Princi...if they continue AFTER they've been notified it is the wrong number, that is when you can sue them. $1,000.00 per violation...would more than pay for those minutes.
Posted by DebtorBasher on 2007-11-27:
Stew! Stop following me...you're like gum stuck to my shoe and I can't get rid of it! Unless you voted me helpful, then I'm willing to be stuck with you.
Posted by superbowl on 2007-11-27:
Stew, try to be civil and act like a mature contributing member of M3C's for a change OK? We all know it will be tough for you but give it a try.
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