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An Un-Named Dealership - Forgery Informative - Forged Retail Sale Installment Contract

Review by sandlizzard on 2008-02-23
COASTAL SOUTH CAROLINA, SOUTH CAROLINA -- My wife purchased an automobile in her name only on November 23rd, 2007 from a dealership in South Carolina. A week later she was advised that they needed another contract signed because they had switched financing sources. SHE signed another sales contract. We attempted for 6 weeks to find out who had the contract. On Jan 19th, 2008 my wife received a statement in the mail from the financing company. In conversing about the payment I found out I was on the contract. I HAVE NOT SIGNED ANY CONTRACT IN REFERENCE TO THIS. I obtained a copy of the retail sale installment contract from the dealer on Jan. 26th, 2008 and saw that my signature and my wife's signature had been forged. I have filed an affidavit of forgery with Citi Financial Auto. I also filed a complaint with Atty. Gen.'s office of South Carolina.. I also mailed a copy of the complaint I filed with the A.G.'s office to the auto dealership's owner. I spoke with the financing company Friday and they acknowledge that both signatures are forged but will not do anything unless I file criminal charges against the company.

Also yesterday I received a call from the owner of the car dealership and he wants to meet with me on this coming Tuesday.
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CUTTING TO THE CHASE...FAST FORWARD 2 MONTHS

Today is April 29th, 2008. This fiasco was finalized by a trip to Moncks Corner, S.C. yesterday and accepting a check from the owner of the company for $7,000 after signing a "NO SUE" form. Let me say that the owner of the company is very sorry that this situation occured not only for his financial loss but he appears to hate it happened to us. My only dislike of his dealings in the way he handled the situation once he was made aware of it was requiring us to drive 390 miles round trip to resolve this. But I think I would have drove to China to get this over with. My B/P is now 20 points I bet.

My advice to all who read this: If you detect something not right with your dealings at an auto dealership is to be persistant in your dealings. Contact the dealership and owner first. If no settlement or one not to your likeing write your Atty. General, Better Business Bureau and of course MY3CENTS. Contact your local law enforcement also. While I was waiting for the owner of the company to contact us I already had written the Atty. Gen. and the finance company. DO NOT WAIT ON THE DEALERSHIP TO MAKE OFFERS. If you contact all the above ad make the dealer/owner aware of all you have contacted it whill/should put pressure on the dealer/ownerto settle.
Comments:54 Replies - Latest reply on 2013-02-19
Posted by *Brenda* on 2008-02-23:
I think you should file criminal charges! I know car salesman are usually slimy but this takes the cake!
Posted by Fedup-Timeout on 2008-02-23:
I don't trust any of them. A few years ago, I lost my job and after being unemployed for a couple of months, applied for and was hired as a car sales person. I left the first dealership after about a month because of the lies, dirt, and deceit I witnessed there, was hired at another dealership and it was even worse than the first. Not only did I witness the dirt against customers, but I also saw the dirty tricks and unsavory tactics that took place among salespersons, managers, and the people in finance. It's a very dirty business.
Posted by madconsumer on 2008-02-24:
sounds like your wife should not have been making these deals. where are the copies of the contracts she signed? had she failed to get them in the first place, then she needs to be trained and not allowed to sign legal documents.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-24:
BRENDA: The Atty. Gen. will not actively pursue a case if it is litigation. I'm going to wait on filing charges for a few days to see what the reaction of the owner of the company is. He has just known about it since last friday. Thanks for your post.

FEDUP: I have a nephew in the business. He tells me horror stories. It's time for the dealers to pay for their unscrupulious actions. Thanks for your imput and good luck.

Madconsumer: We have copies of all contracts she signed (2). We also have copy of a third contract that WE did not sign. No problm with the two she signed. It's the forged contract that neither of signed or saw until Jan 26th. that is the issue. Thanks for posting
Posted by jktshff1 on 2008-02-24:
sand, good post. I would still file charges to get the ball rolling and letting them know you are serious. A police report stating the facts could be very helpful when meeting the owner.
good luck and keep us posted.
Posted by Principissa on 2008-02-24:
I agree with jk. Get a police report. The more proof you have on your side, the easier it will be for you to win this case. I've heard of dishonest sales people, but this, this is horrible and the person(s) responsible deserve to be punished for this.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-24:
JK & PRINCIPISSA: Thanks for your post and insight. Your post are the kind I am hopeing to garner. I told my wife on the way to church this AM that someone should go to jail for this or any forgery like this. It shows total disrespect for someone willing to trust a business to do right. I am greatly inclined to file charges this week if the owner does not "make right" the wrong that has occured. I will talk to the atty that is advising me in the morning and tell him let's go ahead and file. I don't know how this will effect the Atty. General investigation but criminal charges should get someone's attention. I will advise all as to what transpires on a daily basis. DOES ANYONE THINK I SHOULD ACTUALLY DRIVE 150 MILES TO MEET THE OWNER ON HIS TURF?
Posted by Anonymous on 2008-02-24:
I am really glad you reposted this. First off the advice to delete your previous post was invalid. The only problem with your previous post would be if the facts were incorrect from "your" point of view. Anyway, I doubt in this case anyone ever goes to jail for forgery, you are gonna have to prove exactly who at the dealership actually signed the contract. If the person has even the slightest intellect they are gonna deny it and force the states prosecutor to prove who signed it. Second, you have to have actually been harmed by said action. You stated earlier that you would have signed the contract if you were needed. The only harm I can imagine is that the forged contract is not the exact same terms as the original (whole different story if it is). As wrong as this situation is, criminally the case really doesn't have much traction (ie no suspect, no criminal intent). This is a case of laziness, plain and simple. Now there is a difference between criminal and civil though. You have a civil case. Every dealership is insured, licensed and bonded, if you file civil charges the dealership will refer the case to their bond company (which is actually an insurance company). The insurance company will appoint their attorneys to review the case and advise. My best guess will be that they will recommend a minor settlement that you will find offensive. You already stated that you have a number in your head and will probably deny the offer (bad idea, I'll explain later). You will proceed to court in which you will win, the judge will order a judgement in your behalf plus maybe some punitive damages of which your attorney will promptly collect 1/3 of. Now getting to court will be half the battle because the insurance company will postpone the case several times and drag it out as long as possible. Of course if the judges order is not to the acceptance of the insurance company, they are gonna appeal it over and over again until either they run out of appeals or you settle for a smaller amount. The entire process could realisticly last for 10 - 12 years.

That's pretty much how the process is gonna work if you did not sign ANY papers at the dealership, which I doubt. The reason why I doubt this is beacuse they had enough information about you to include you on the finance contract. They would have needed your SS#, date of birth, income info etc. If you signed a limited power of attorney or an errors and ommissions statement your whole case is in the toilet (your attorney can tell you why). Again this entire scenario changes if the forged contract terms are different from the original!!!

The reason why I earlier refered to not accepting the settlement as a "bad idea" is because I remember in your earlier post about the stress that this whole ordeal is putting on you and your wife and your ages. Is it really worth potentially years of litigation and stress. I don't know, only you can answer that. I now understand that the owner is willing to meet with you on Tuesday, personally I would hold off any further escalation of this matter until the meeting takes place. If you push to hard it may "handcuff" the owners ability to correct this situation to your satisfaction and force any further communication (and possible resolution) to be forwarded through the dealerships attorneys. If it gets pushed to that stage refer to paragragh # 1. I always believe it is best to work out any differences WITHOUT lawyers involved, it just seems you can get resolution faster. Good Luck
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-24:
DEALER: I'm glad you found me.Thanks for the input. It is late tonight so I will address just the first part of your post. I know it must be found out who forged the signatures. On the retail sale installment contract a person witnessed the forged signatures. If it is determined that the signatures are actually forgeries that means the witness to the signatures LIED when she stated those are our signatures. She would be the first person to be lead off in hand-cuffs if she did not supply information as to who forced her to witness the forged signatures. I suspect the person that signed as a witness is the person who forged our signatures because her writing is similar to our forged signatures. One other point tonight. I only signed the application to seek credit. I WAS TURNED DOWN AS A PARTICIPANT when my wife was told she qualified for financing on her own. My signing a credit application does not legally obligate me for the loan.......... More tomorrow. Have a good night.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-25:
DEALERDIRCT: Let me state for the umpteenth time. I only signed the APPLICATION for credit. If I had been told I was needed for this transaction I would have signed more.You state you suspect I signed something because they had enough info to add me to the contract. They had my name, address, SS #, DL # and my income, etc. on the credit application. Signing a credit application does in no way commit me to owe money on any contract. A limited power of attorney does not give the auto dealership the right to ADD my name BY FORGERY to an obligation and FORGE my wife's name to a contract. If that were the case they could "SELL" and "OBLIGATE" me a $50,000. auto loan when I did not even look at the car.. My willingness to have signed the contract at the beginning does not give them the right to FORGE my signature to a contract because perhaps a financing source requested it. I suspect the dealership found out they could get a better deal with another fiance company and forged our signatures to a contract.

I do not think the dealership will want to go to court. Imagine the negative publicity from a FORGERY LAWSUIT. The area is not that large...and it is a new dealership in the area.

In spite of all our angles we look at this it still boils down to FORGED SIGNATURES on a RETAIL SALES INSTALLMENT CONTRACT. NOTHING, NOTHING allows a car dealership to commit FRAUD by forging names on a retail sale installment contract. Laziness, distance, my willingness to sign previously, error.........None of the above is justification.
DEALERDIRCT: KEEP THE THOUGHTS COMING.



Posted by Anonymous on 2008-02-25:
No one said it was right, I simply explained what the process will involve.
Posted by econobiker on 2008-02-25:
My opinion: The contract should be voided due to the forgery. Your wife should have gotten a copies of the contracts she signed at the time of signing them. See my response to what to do at the end of this posting.

Your problem: On the basis of what you wrote (car purchase Nov.'07 then her signing another contract) it sounds like she (and you) got a "spot delivery" of the car prior to the actual financing going through. This is one of the stupidest things to do- you should have had your financing lined up prior to even looking at buying a car. Dealers who do "spot delivery" are usually more shady than others.

My thinking is that the dealer finance guy thought your wife would qualify for one source and she didn't , then got another lined up and had her sign another contract and then when that didn't work out- realized they were on the hook for the car. They then forged both of your signatures on the paper work. This forged financing probably has pretty bad loan terms too along with a bunch of extras added on...

Go to your local bank and see what type of terms you can get.

As for the dealer owner I would tell him to discount the car sales price 50% and provide legitimate financing for same or you will prosecute the case. And YOU and your WIFE make sure you get the final sales price in writing along with copies of all of the paperwork.
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-02-26:
Sandlizzard: I'm back!
I am happy you re-posted this complaint as well...This time your post and the event "timeline" make sense. And I am very happy to see the dealer wants to meet with you. But I have to say, whether you signed an application for credit only or whatever--DealerDirect is absolutely right. If the dealer makes you some type of "acceptable offer"--take it. This type of situation typically does drag out for years--for what? To prove a point? To receive punitive damanges? To maybe get your deal reversed in the end? (After paying lawyer fees) Maybe in the previous post I was not clear on what I was trying to tell you--but this was my point!

I helped out a customer who in May of 2005 purchased a car from a another dealer where it was obvious the dealer had frauduanatly added a mystery trade to her deal to help obtain financing. This was completely obvious, as it was on the MV-4 Registration form--there was no denying what happened-she just did not see it. There was nothing really to prove...she didn't need to prove who signed what...In other words, this situation was as clear as day. Yet 5 months ago, after phone calls, meetings, and all the other legal "crap" she received a settlement from the dealer for $1200 (this was almost 2 years later). She was happy because if I had not pointed this out to her in the first place, she would never have known. I was disappointed because I felt she deserved more...and I wanted to take this dealer down because I knew they would do it again.

This type of situation will probably be more involved...and if you take the "down with all dealer's" and "I'm proving my point to get what I deserve" attitudes and not listen to people who know what they are talking about--you may be the one disappointed...and the stress may be worse than what it is now.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-26:
AEROCAVE: I wrote a 3 page comment last night but it did not go thru. The Att. Generals' office called me yesterday and told me they are referring my complaint to SLED ( State Law Enforcement Division) because it is a criminal action and they will work with me as far as prosecution. I canceled my meeting with the owner of the dealership scheduled today but I am going to reach him this morning via phone. Since he was not aware of the situation I do owe him at least a chance to resolve this. DEALERDIRECT has given me "food for thought" coming from his perspective. AND you have also. I appreciate all the comments to me. It has really helped me keep my sanity so far. ( my wife would argue otherwise :>) ) You're correct about the attitude. I feel like I should carry on for all who have been deceived by dealerships but....Perhaps later. Let me straighten this out first. I will post more as it unfolds. Thanks for all comments.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-26:
TO ALL PARTICIPANTS: NEWSFLASH !!!!! I just got off the phone with the owner of the auto dealership we are speaking of. He stated he had in his possession an affidavit from the car salesman that traveled 150 miles to get my wife's signature that she definitely signed the contract in front of him. I ask him if my signature was on it. He said it was not. Then I explained to him that the finacing company was collecting on a contract with my wife's and my signature on it . He told me my contract was sold to XXXXX finance company. I told him that was not the company sending me statements. He said to give him 24 hours and he would get back to me. He told me he would at the least pay the car off and take it back. I reminded him what I wanted as per my letter to the Atty Gens office and somewhere between what he said and my stipulations there was a meeting point. He agreed. He said he would consider it. I'm glad I gave him the opportunity to take care of this. Hopefully more GOOD news within 24 hours.
TO ALL WHO POSTED ADVICE.A BIG THANKS.....YA'LL HELP ME GET TO WHERE THIS IS RIGHT NOW.
Posted by Anonymous on 2008-02-26:
and the plot thickens................
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-26:
TO DEALER & AEROCAVE:Perhaps a movie here? LOL....Are you in the auto sales business, legal profession or just educated and have a degree in "Life".

I just re-read econobiker's post....MY RESPONSE: Good suggestion..Gee.....I got a lot of help.

Another question for all: Can you get a SPECIFIC item at a GENERAL store?

Posted by Anonymous on 2008-02-26:
I'll take the liberty and answer for myself and aerocave. Aerocave is a dealer principal upfront and center. To get to me you have to dig deeper, I don't deal with the general public.
Posted by econobiker on 2008-02-27:
Sandlizard,
It seems like the dealer salesman is the idiot(criminal?) here as no car sales guy will a: drive 150 miles for a contract signature and no dealership owner will b. offer to pay a car off to take it back unless he sees himself going to jail. Sure the owner has an affidavit from the sales guy- for the wrong financing- that is what the sales guy is tap dancing to since he (and possibly the dealership) is on the hook for the criminal forgery now...

I want to see you succeed with this. Stick to your guns- it looks like you have them cold busted. I still say have owner discount the car price 50% and get some other legit bank financing for that amount. And don't go back for service to them either...

And you hadn't even gone to the press about this yet. Might want to mention that to the dealer owner too...
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-27:
ECONOBIKER: My contact at the Atty. General's office called today and advised me she had faxed the paperwork to the sheriff's dept in the county the car dealership is in. She gave me the number and a name to call. I called the Capt. of investigators and gave him a few details. He stated the Atty Gen.s office is benind this case 100% and felt we had a good case. We agreed for me and wifey to come down next week and file papers and see a judge. I explained that the owner and I had talked and he said let the owner contact me and see if this can be worked out. I called the owner's office and left him a message that the time restraint I mentioned yesterday was pushing me. I told him I expect to talk to him tomorrow. Hopefully he is not as big of a scumbag as some of his employees. The discounted car price is acceptable to me PLUS the letter of apology.
More Manana.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-02-29:
UPDATE: I have been busy preparing my case for court since the owner did not call me within 48 hours. BUT.........Alas, he called me this afternoon... Wants to meet next Tues (3/6) at 2 PM. I agreed. I assume he checked with the financing source to find out which contract they were useing for collection and he saw that the contract they are useing is a forgery.(He does not have a copy of the forged contract on the premises of the auto dealership that my wife signed the papers) Well. he probably got one from the financing company.I DO WISH TO CONTNUE RECEIVING INPUT FROM YOU GUYS. I WILL POST TOMORROW MY PLAN AND LET YOU FOLKS TAKE IT APART FOR ME.
Direct, Econo, Aero, Brenda, Fedup,Mad, Jkt....Are ya'll still with me?
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-01:
MY PLAN: The owner obviously has determined that he has a forgery by an employee/employees on his hands. This is an assumption because of his phone call and request to meet with us to resolve this matter. According to the ATTY GENERALS' office I have a criminal case and they have forwarded it to the criminal investigation division of the county police dept. in which the dealership is in. The mininum we feel we should accept is an apology from the dealership for providing " NOT UP TO PAR SERVICE" in this deal.Then we feel that the dealership should present my wife with a paid in full title to the car. And for me a financial reward for the way I have been treated plus the addition of my name by forgery to a contract that I had nothing to do with. It is in the lower 5 figure amount...nothing that will break a guy that owns five auto dealerships and his insurance company should be well tickled with.

If there is not an agreement I have prepared a media blitz with the information I have accumulated in this matter. It will become a national cause to stop these fraud/forgery practices of automobile dealers. Included in this list are the congressional and senatorial representatives of the state this occurred in plus the print media and tv stations in his dealership areas, and the dealer associations on the local and national levels. I welcome suggestions to be added to this list.

THIS AUTO DEALERSHIP HAS COMMITTED FRAUD AND FORGERY. IT PIZZES ME TO THINK THAT THEY HAD SO LITTLE DISREGARD FOR MY WIFE AS TO CREATE A NASTY, SCUMY, SLEAZY, SLIMEY,UNPROFESSIONAL, CRIMINAL, INTENTIONALLY FRADULANT ACT. Any questions?



Posted by Anonymous on 2008-03-01:
ROFLMAO. Yeah, good luck with that
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-01:
DEALERDIRECT: Man I got to start somewhere.........and end up somewhere. It is much easier to slide down the wall than to pull myself up from the floor.... Know what I mean?
For all I know the dealer/owner could be reading these post. Hey, I'm not the turnip I look like. I'm also ROF.
I am not afraid to file charges against this dealer/owner. I do not think he will want me writing the chairman, cfo and the VP in charge of customer affairs of the car manufactor and sending the same packet that the A.G received from me and agreed there is a crime that has been comitted. I also have on my list the congressmen and senators, the S.C.Automobile dealers assoc., The national Assoc of Auto dealers, M3C.com, Myspace.com ALL media an
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-01:
CONTINUED: All media (tv, paper, etc) in the 5 retail areas he does business in. I have already contacted a TV station in the area of his home dealership and a reporter is very interested. I told him I must wait until charges are filed and then I will be able to release his name.NOW,ANSWER THIS: WOULD A CAR DEALERSHIP WANT A MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF NEGATIVE PUBLICITY?

WORST CASE: I FIGURE THE DEALER WILL PAY THE FINANCING COMPANY OFF AND COME GET THE CAR. I'M OUT BUCKS BUT MY SATISFACTION WILL BE THE DEALER GETTING ALL THE PUBLICITY. I WILL NOT HAVE A CAR PAYMENT BECAUSE THERE IS NOT A VALID CONTRACT. Dealer, I'm a mix between a bulldog and a hound. I sniff out the vermin and put my teeth into it.I hope you understand this is not just about money. It the damage I see done to my wife ( perhaps you will not understand that) and the blatant disregard he had for me by forging MY name to a fraudulant contract..Grrrrrrrrrrrr! :>)
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-03-02:
I would be careful with all the "threats." I have had customers use the "TV station" and "Congressman" card in the deck before at our store, and honestly, the customer is the one who looks like the fool. I really think your "crusade" is going to end up empty--in fact your "worst case" is probably accurate. I really think your "offer" to the dealer is ridiculous. A free and clear title plus monetary damanges? Come on lizzard, are you for real? If what they did is accurate, it was wrong. I have never doubted you on that. I do not like that there are dealers in my business out there that still do this...But to me, forgery has different levels. And yes, they are all wrong...but my point is you have a car you like. You have a car you want. You have a car for the payment you want. Yes, maybe there was forgery...but really, at the end of the day...SO WHAT?
You are simply trying to take advantage of the situation--because in my opinion--you have way too much time on your hands.
Go be a crusader for a worthy cause...there is a lot of need out there...
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-02:
AEROCAVE: Ouch!. Do dealers know that people will bend over and take it in the rear so they continue to do these things? That's the message I'm receiving from your opinion.So we go down to the dealership, he offers us 3
payments and all is well. The perp. of this fraud and forgery is poised to attack his next victim. YOUR STATMENT: "Yes, maybe there was forgery...but really, at the end of the day...SO WHAT".This sounds like a condoning of the action. I can't shake it off like that.Normal action to you...unacceptable to me. This case will be tried in 3 courts.........1)God's court in the long run. 2) Criminal court. 3) The peoples court. We are willing to accept the worst case senario just to punish this autodealership....Finally.....YOUR STATMENT: I would be careful with all the "threats." .... The statment I made is not a threat. It is a statment of actual actions I will take. Worded correctly I doubt I will look like a foolish person. I'm not mad at you ...just disagree. I do thank you for your imput.
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-03-02:
I did not say that forgery is acceptable. I am not condoning it. It is not just "another day at the dealership" for most dealers--including the one I am a part of. As it has been since you began with this post, it is impossible to give you any advice, as you do not want to listen. Your mind is made up in terms of "what you are owed" and how you were "wronged." You are free to pursue this any way you like...I just feel that you are blowing this entire situation way "out of the park" and suspect it has more to do with "whats in it for you" then your "crusade" against unethical dealers and "the next victim." Sorry, you lost my respect with your "...take it in the rear" comment.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-02:
AEROCAVE & ALL: A survey: What do all of you think I should accept as compensation for this crime comitted by the autodealership? Thanks in advance for your participation.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-02:
AEROCAVE: I have spend a couple hours researching the complaints in the AUTO DEALERSHIP section of M3C and I found several post by you. Interesting it is that you are always pro-auto dealership. Your opinion is always slanted in favor of the dealership. The most damaging evidence is your statment to me and I quote "Yes, maybe there was forgery...but really, at the end of the day...SO WHAT? " So what if the customer has had a bad experience. So what if the dealer committed fraud. So what if the dealer committed forgery. So what if it is a very degrading to have my name used against my permission. So what??? That statment is definitely PRO-AUTO DEALERSHIP. I am supposed to accept a pittance and move on. Let the dealership move on to their next victim. I'm sure you have had experience in these type dealings. That's why the "NO HARM DONE" at the end of the day comes from. NO, AEROCAVE, It does not work that way in my world. Please keep your PRO-DEALER opinions to yourself. I do not respect them so do not waste the skin on your fingers posting them. I do have plenty of time on my hands.I retired at 58. I get sick seeing the way companies are run now. Customer service is a thing of the past. Honesty in dealings is a thing of the past. Especially in the auto dealership world.I hope I can stop this.....for the future victims of auto dealerships...You can understand that , can you? As for your reaction to this? Get over it and move on. So what?
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-02:
AEROCAVE: I have spend a couple hours researching the complaints in the AUTO DEALERSHIP section of M3C and I found several post by you. Interesting it is that you are always pro-auto dealership. Your opinion is always slanted in favor of the dealership. The most damaging evidence is your statment to me and I quote "Yes, maybe there was forgery...but really, at the end of the day...SO WHAT? " So what if the customer has had a bad experience. So what if the dealer committed fraud. So what if the dealer committed forgery. So what if it is a very degrading to have my name used against my permission. So what??? That statment is definitely PRO-AUTO DEALERSHIP. I am supposed to accept a pittance and move on. Let the dealership move on to their next victim. I'm sure you have had experience in these type dealings. That's why the "NO HARM DONE" at the end of the day comes from. NO, AEROCAVE, It does not work that way in my world. Please keep your PRO-DEALER opinions to yourself. I do not respect them so do not waste the skin on your fingers posting them. I do have plenty of time on my hands.I retired at 58. I get sick seeing the way companies are run now. Customer service is a thing of the past. Honesty in dealings is a thing of the past. Especially in the auto dealership world.I hope I can stop this.....for the future victims of auto dealerships...You can understand that , can you? As for your reaction to this? Get over it and move on. So what?
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-03-03:
Sandlizzard: You have totally missed my point again and again. I do not need your sermon on customer satisfaction. I take that very seriously--as does the dealership family I am a part of (88 years in business). I'll watch for you on Dateline or 20/20...as I am done posting here. You'll never understand.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-03:
AEROCAVE; Please restate your point and what I should do.
Posted by MRM on 2008-03-03:
I think Aerocave had enough of this thread.
Posted by Hugh_Jorgen on 2008-03-03:
It sounds like since you don't agree with him you are going to tune out Aerocave's answer. But he has a valid point about this happening frequently at car dealerships. Someone forgets to sign one of the eighteen forms necessary to buy a car - when it's discovered, someone just signs a name to it to expedite the process.

Now admittedly, what they did to you was way beyond a simple overlooked document, they created a signature where there wasn't one before - but you did admit that you would have signed these documents if asked. That's a key point in your particular story.

Now beyond the issue of what is right or wrong, in order for you to collect any significant damages, you are going to have to show some serious infraction by the dealer and some losses by you. Now if he had forged your signature as a co-signer on four other people's cars, that's one thing - but forging your name on a document that you admit you would have signed anyway, really didn't put you in a worse position than you would have been in.

At the end of the day what will happen is this - the dealer will blame some low-level employee in their business office (whether they did it or not) and more than likely they will fire this person. If the media gets involved, he will explain how shocked he was to learn of this, but with the firing of this rogue employee they are certain that the problem is solved. And john Q Public will forget about it just as quickly.

I wish you luck in getting this resolved, but I don't think you hit the lottery here. You will most likely get your deal undone, but then you get to start the process all over again.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-03:
HUGH JORGEN: Nice perspective. Maybe it all boils down to this: We do not want to do business with any company that committs fraud and forgery. They do not deserve to make a profit off of me or my wife. It was not a simple matter of signing a missed form. My expression of consent to sign the forms should have lead to seeking me out to sign the document. Where I come from there are penalities to pay for FRAUD and FORGERY. It seemed to me thaT AEROCAVE was endorsing the forgery action by the statement: ........but really at the end of the day...So what?
WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD SETTLE FOR?
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-03:
HUGH JORGEN: YOUR STATMENT: Now beyond the issue of what is right or wrong, in order for you to collect any significant damages, you are going to have to show some serious infraction by the dealer and some losses by you.

I FOUND A SERIOUS INFRACTION: FRAUD AND FORGERY BY THE DEALERSHIP.
MY WIFE AND I DO HAVE SOME SERIOUS LOSSES ALSO. ( imo)
Posted by Hugh_Jorgen on 2008-03-03:
Since we don't agree as to the damages you suffered, you can dismiss my opinion as quickly as you dismissed Aerocave's - it matters not to me. I'm just throwing out My3Cents.


Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-03:
No one on this blog is in the situation my wife and I are in and have suffered sleepless nights, high blood pressure, stress, arguments over what to do, aggravation, etc. I have not been convinced to let the dealership go. My wife wants OUT....I want DAMAGES. The thinking I'm picking up is that it is a common practice for car dealerships to commit forgery to different levels. So I must accept it, re-sign papers and move on. Where's the JUSTICE in that? Is this blog full of auto dealership employees? I thank all for their opposing opinions. I am just disagreeing with the post I don't believe in. That, folks, is the american way..... IT IS TIME FOR THIS TO END. I WILL POST THURS. NIGHT OR FRIDAY WHAT THE RESULT OF THE MEETING WITH THE OWNER WAS. Good day to all.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-03:
I AM NOT ME---->I just finished reading my reactions to the many post on this thread and I see a person I don't know. The situation my wife and I are in has created another person out of me. I am not normally belligerent, condensing and arrogant. I see all of the above in my responses. Normally I would not use the phrase about "bending over" in my words. To all: I'M SORRY. :>(
Posted by Anonymous on 2008-03-03:
Sandlizzard: WOW, I am impressed, that took alot. First a little background, Dealerdirect is an automotive service company of which one of the things we do is dealer compliance issues. Basically what you can and cannot do along with how to handle situations such as yours. For several reason, mainly I don't feel like typing out the entire situation I invite you to call me at (410) 529 6800 on Tuesday and I will try to help
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-03-04:
Thank you sandlizzard. I do hope you get your situation worked out.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-07:
SOME FACTS AND INFO ON MEETING WITH OWNER YESTERDAY (3/06/08): Had to listen to his rags to riches success story; how lucky we were to get financing; how AMERICAN SUZUKI gave him an auto dealer franchise; Then he told us he had affidavit from salesman that we both signed contract>>>after telling us he had affidavit for wife's signature.....just minutes before..BOTTOM LINE; He is full of himself and more. He also wanted to discuss merits of our case. I cut him off and told him that would be done in court: NOW TO THE OFFERS: His offers #1: Citifinancial auto would finance the car either in my wife's name, my name or both names however we wanted. #2 Citifinancial would finance car and he pay our expenses for coming to the meeting. #3: He would buy back the car in full. QUESTION HERE. Why would he offer to refinance the car? Could it be Citifinacial does not have a valid contract? Hmmmmmm. THERE WERE NO MONETARY REWARDS AT ALL IN HIS OFFERS.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

OUR OFFERS: My wife ask for the car paid in full. His reaction: That could takes years in litigation with his insurance company..............My wife said: Let me make you an offer you can do without litigation. $10,0000 check to us. He said he has $5,000.00 deductible. He wants 72 hours to discuss with officers of company and his insurance company. We left on that. NOTE........We went by the local police department before meeting with owner. The detective stated we had a slam dunk case (will not go into details tonight) He also said our offers we were going to make to him was actually being overly nice. The arm of the Atty Gens office had offered him all the help he needs in proscution of this case.
A PERSONAL NOTE: I visited my Dr. Wednesday morning. Diagnosis: Stress, fatigue and dehydration. No, I did not do this in case of trial....but it will help. B/P was way high. My energy level was way down and skin color was pallowed. . I welocme all comments but I will not answer all like I used to so quickly. Dr's. orders: let this go unless absolutely necessary. I got to.
DEALERDIRECT: I OWE YA REALLY BIG ONE. THE PATH YOU CARVED THRU THE WOODS LET US OUT THE OTHER END. YOU DA MAN!!!
PS: I am still pursuing another avenue to add pressure to this matter. More in the comng days.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-12:
Negotations still going on. I think we are close to settlement. As soon as we have reached a compromise I will post ending. Thanks to all.......I am at peace.
Posted by Anonymous on 2008-03-14:
Sandlizzard: keep in mind that your post keeps getting moved farther down the line. You can double click on a members nic to reach their blog to leave messages if you like. Unfortunatley most people who could benefit from your post are not going to look this far, try reposting to put it back at the top
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-14:
Hey, Dealer: Please explain "You can double click on a members nic"...... I filed charges yesterday (Thurs 3/13) in South Carolina. The investigator is to call the owner today and tell him what the penalty for forgery is. He is going to tell him there is a strong case against his dealership for fraud/forgery. The hold-up with the dealer is that he is "negotating with his insurance company". He has been given 7 days before yesterday to do that. He continues to ask for more time.THEY AIN'T MORE TIME!!! I also wrote the finance company and ask for my title back with no lein and wrote a letter to the Atty Gen. of Texas explaining the company is attempting to collect on a bogus contract. Close....very close..
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-14:
3:30 PM ET. I was at an Uncles funeral and when I got home there was a recorded message from the owner in the stating an offer was in the mail that I should receive by Monday. So.............Lets hope it is satisfactory. I called the police dept. and the investigator had not called him yet. More next week.......Have a nice week end
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-14:
NOTE TO ALL: When I receive the offer from the owner of the auto dealership be it tomorrow or Monday I will repost a NEW review of this situation identifying the company and location. I feel that when the dealer made me an offer it was an admission of guilt on his part that the dealership committed fraud/forgery.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-19:
To All: I received a letter from the owner of the auto dealership offering us $7,000.00 cash to drop any further action in this matter. My wife sez take it. What do ya'll think I'm gonna do? I'm going to the beach tomorrow for Easter sunrise service Sunday morning on the beach. It don't get no better than that.
Posted by sandlizzard on 2008-03-20:
MORE: The owner of the auto dealership wants us to sign another contract with the financial institution. UMMMMMMMMM...Ya think they have a forged retail sale installment contract?
Posted by Anonymous on 2008-03-20:
Unbelievable! Congradulations! Hooray! Job well done! don't know what else to say. Take the settlement, we discussed this before. Sandy, you really should repost this again for everyone to see. Good Luck
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-03-23:
I would take the cash...Read the contract carefully, sign it and drive away! I am surprised this got where it did this quick...I am very happy for you. Hopefully the snakes that were behind this were fired. This may be the dealer's wake up call.
Posted by econobiker on 2008-03-24:
Congrats!!! I echo what Aerocave says. Definitely read the contract carefully, make sure all the financing amounts are correct, nothing has been padded into the contract, etc...


And jokingly stated after all of what you and your spouse have been through- "Don't pay for the paint sealer or fabric protection."
Posted by barbara on 2013-02-19:
what if the dealership tells you who forged your name how do you handle that!

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