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Car Dealers Complaint - Car Dealers to me are Car Stealers.

Review by Cathy4903 on 2008-03-20
NEW JERSEY -- Ok so here is the big update as to what made ME come to this conclusion.

I have a 2006 PT Cruiser Convertible. I am 5'10''. I was never really uncomfortable in my car until my spinal injury took place in 01/2007. I need a car w/ extra leg room in the front so I can extend my legs a bit more then they already are, because driving this car causes my pinched siatica nerve to be aggrivated more since I can't extend my legs further.

Now, that was just a little background, I know car dealers do not care about that but I need certian comfort levels and features ( like cruise control which my car doesn't have ) in order for me to be able to even drive because I am in pain when I drive anymore and I can't stand that. It's not fair to me.

So, Lately I have been looking at New G6 GT's and Used Pontiacs as well, Like G6's and 03-05 Grand Am GTs. ( I want a Pontiac, can't you tell? ) These cars give me comfort when I drive so I am not in pain and I just love them a lot. I want a Used because it's more price efficent for me. Now here's the Kicker, I've been to Many Dealers and I mean MANY. Dealers from Wayne NJ all the way down to places on RT 73 by Atlantic City. Out of everyone, only 3 dealers had actually NICE employees who didn't brush me off because I was a young female ( Don't judge a book by it's cover is a good lesson to be learned kiddies. ) Even my boyfriend just bought a sweet new truck two days ago and that dealer was amazing and did it all for him, I'd go back if they had a Pontiac. All the other dealers must think I am an idiot, but I'm not. I know a lot about Pontiacs and cars in general, even to a Dealer's Suprise and I laugh when they act Suprised that I know a bit and I hate that. Just because I am a Young Girl doesn't mean I know nothing about cars.

Sorry, back to the point. So I need a new Car and I still owe on mine, I understand the de-value and neg. equity etc etc, but reguardless how you look at it, an American car is only good used because unless you paied it off in full at the moment of purchase, if you buy new, the second you drive it off the lot, the value falls about 7,000 to 7,800. So lets say you paid (with tax and charges) 22,800 for your new car that you worked them down to and you think you got a good deal....WRONG....because drive it off the lot, park it and minue 7,800 from that price and your car is worth about 15,000. Wow you still owe 22,800!!! Sure thats not the full "to the penny" amount but it's darn near close, look it up. So I still owe on my Car, and I have 39,300 miles ( SUPPOSEDLY a car of my year should only have around 29,000 but to estimate people to drive only 10,000 miles a year or 12,000, means they must have no job, no life and get a taxi everywhere, it's unrealistic to the daily driver because most people alone drive 20 to 30 miles to work one way...Point two proven, I am good ).

Ok really back to the point. I saw a 2003 Grand am GT Coupe and it had 45,077 Miles and they wanted 8,999 for it. I know that a dealer will not give me the amount I owe for my car, ( Yes I am realistic ) but I still want atleast 9,000 for my car, not a penny lower and I am willing to have the rest dropped onto the next loan for that car. Doing so would have brought that Grand Am GT to total at 13,399 and would have broke me even as well as put me in a car I can drive for my medical condition. Nope, didn't happen because they would only give me 8,500 and revoke ALL warrenties ( The used car bumper to bumper and the lifetime powertrain ) The Carfax said the car was in a front end accident but the airbags did not deploy so the car wasn't hit that bad, but still, to give me a car w/ no warranty and I don't get the asking price I want, you must be out of your mind. I had one, I know their value and what they give and get for them, once again I am not stupid. Of course I walked out on them, let the car sit on their lot and sell it to the next person that will take whatever they give them, I am not that easily pushed over. Summer and Graduation is coming so I know I can get twice that amount for my convertible if I private sold it.

Why is it that dealers are trying, or what seems to be trying, to get a free car out of me or anyone doing a trade for that matter, they take it in at an unreasonable price and sell it for five times that amount and make their profit. I understand supply and demand, and I understand companies need to make a profit too but seriously now, why can't they be a little more fair to me or the next person or just consumer friendly. I can afford a good car but I'd rather a used car, I have the right to the choice of car I want, the dealer should be happy they got my business. But they arn't because they see one walk out as a big "Who gives a darn, we'll get four more cars sold today anyway, we do not need her money."

Also, The dealers DO NOT USE Kelley Blue Book Value for the cars traded in and sold, they use this thing called Galves ( I believe it’s spelled like that, but any dealer will show you the book they used, just look at the name ). They have Three Different Books for Different years and the such. I find it FUNNY how today I went to two dealers, both about a Pontiac Grand Am GT Coupe. The first Dealers Book said that My car was worth 8,200 for it’s year w/ 29,000 miles and that it was to have 100.00 deducted for every thousand miles it was over. The second dealer’s book said my car was worth 7,600 for it’s year w/ 29,000 miles and was to have 75.00 deducted for every thousand miles it’s over the 29,000 mile mark. Now you tell me, why the second dealer swore up and down that all dealers have the same book, but if that was the case how would I know that exact information? You tell me. I saw it, my boyfriend saw it with his own eyes and yet the second dealer called me a liar. Don’t believe it, they DO have different books, with the same name, JUST DIFFERENT VALUES! Don’t be fooled! Even over the summer my boyfriend and I went to a Chevy dealer that also had a Used Pontiac Grand Am GT Coupe and their Galves book said my car’s value was 7,500 for it’s year at 29,000 miles and was to have 100.00 deducted for every thousand miles over that limit. I think I know that the dealers are correct they do use the same NAMED book, but I think that they have different prices and values based on how much net worth that dealer is or has, or based on how much it sells.

I guess I am supposed to be in complete pain when I drive just because I can't catch a break. Sometimes I just wish for once something would work out for me, and the next good guy or girl just like me in my situation or one similar. If I had known back in April of 2006 when I bought my Convertible that in 01/2007 I was going to hurt my spine, I might not have bought this car, but oops I forgot I can't see into the future anymore because my crystal ball broke. Sorry everyone, I am being sarcastic but I know I deserve something to work out for me too and I know dealers can do anything but they decide not to all beause of profit.

I know I will be paying my car off faster if a deal doesn't come my way. I don't want my time wasted anymore, I've had enough of that. I am so tired of this car shopping, it left such a bad taste in my mouth. I hope that someone or something good will come of this and it will save someone else the trouble I have had to go through.

The best advice I can give anyone Auto shopping is to look around and study the car you want, look at who's selling what and do not jump on the first car you see. BUY USED, you will profit more out of buying used and 9 times out of 10 you'll get the one with more options.

Don’t misunderstand me, I am not trying to throw anyone under the bus, thats why I have left all Dealer and Sales Reps name out because I am not trying to start trouble, but I plan to post this on other web sites and let people who arn’t aware of these facts, become aware that they are out there.

Thanks!
Comments:8 Replies - Latest reply on 2008-03-22
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-03-20:
I don't know where to start...First of all, being in the car business myself, we have people in the door almost every day that owe more on their vehicle than it is worth (we call this "upside down"). Unfortunately, this is the really the result of aggressive new car incentives and aggressive lending (financing 120% of msrp, NADA retail, etc) tactics. I would be the first person to admit that every dealer has benefited on the sales end of this. But customers do as well...as they are able to purchase vehicles with little or no downpayment, trade before paying the car off, get into something newer, etc. Thats what many customers want...we, as dealers are doing what we are being asked to. I realize that some dealers take this to the extreme. But, the question I ask myself in these types of situations is, if I don't do want the customer wants, someone else will. So sometimes you have to look at what you are "overfinancing" and the overall "deal." I always attempt to look at the situation and how it may play out in 3 years when the customer wants to trade...in other words, if I feel that I could possibly jepardize our reputation by selling an undesirable new or used vehicle, overfinance it, and pray that they don't come back--I'd rather not sell it in some cases. I hate to tell you this, but a 2006 PT Cruiser Convertible with 39000 miles and no cruise control is simply not a desirable used vehicle. If I'm trading something like this--I'm going to make sure I trade it right--because it is going to take the "right" buyer at the "right" price to sell it. We are not talking about a "cherry" low mileage well-equipped used vehicle--the type of vehicle you own is simply hard to retail. Customers forget sometimes that we are taking a chance WHENEVER we are accepting a trade on a deal--I hear it all the time, "Oh you'll sell this trade" or "You'll make 3,000 selling my car"--sometimes this is true--sometimes we wholesale it 6 months later at a $2000 loss (and, of course, do not contact the previous owner asking for reimbursement). This is after you get worked down to nothing on the vehicle you are selling. This always amuses me how some customers are the "experts" on their trade--yet after showing them what other comparable vehicles are doing at auctions, Kelly Blue Book pricing, etc--"Their" car is still worth more--and we will "easily" sell it and make "thousands." As I said, sometimes this is true--but sometimes this simply doesn't happen. I'll be honest, I have got caught up in the "emotion" of selling the vehicle before and unfortunately "believed" the customer--only to see this "great" trade sit on the lot for 6 months, not be shown, and sell it at a loss. Dealerships are not "non profit" organizations...I just think sometimes that customers seem to forget this.

I don't agree with the runaround you get at some dealers. I don't like the "shop and get your best deal and we will beat it" sales pitch. I don't like the "order taker" salespeople that are employed across the US at some dealerships--but my point is, its at some dealers. And in any retail business you have the good and the bad. Its just sad that some consumers consider this to be standard practice at every automotive dealership. They are sadly mistaken.

Women buyers, whether young, older, middle-aged, etc are extremely important buyers. More often than not, it is the woman who is the decision maker. Most dealerships realize this--a few still operate under the "come back with your husband" philosphy, but again, this is the minority.

And finally, you simply have to understand that people like myself are paid to make the right decisions...and I am not going to jepardize the company by "burying the dealership" in the trade just to make people like you happy. I have to make the right decision. We are not trying to "get a free car" as you stated. We are simply trying to satisfy you while also make a sound business decision.

I'm sorry that you have some health issues and I am happy to hear that you like Pontiacs. But this doesn't change the fact that you owe a lot of money on a "limited market" vehicle with double the average miles with no equipment.
Posted by Cathy4903 on 2008-03-21:
Reguardless though it does not make it ok for anyone working at a dealer to make the choice for me, if that were the case I wouldn't be there. I know there are thousands of people who are in a situation like mine or something more severe, who knows, but it seems that if sales reps have to make a "business wise" choice, aparently nine times out of ten, it seems like more and more people get pushed out the door. What do they know about me? I could have a 7,000 check in my pocket that I do not want to put on my current car, but would rather invest into a new car more suited for my needs. It's crazy even how people are doing 72 month loans, who ever heard of that? I personally do 48 months and no more, it's worth it to me.

I am sure that your an amazing employee for wherever you might work, but put yourself in my shoes. I know my car is a special market, and I know about the upside down sales and the neg. equity, and that most banks will not do loans over the MSRP, trust me I do not doubt you, I see that side of your point very well. I just can not see some of the ways things are done by making the choice for the buyer. Most might not come in knowing as much as I do, and I do the research alot like anyone else would. But still, I stand behind my points and my findings especially the ones about that Book Dealers use to define value, it happened to me on 3/20/08 with those dealers.

I would like to say I am sorry, I did not try to offend you or anyone who works for Auto Dealers but sometimes, the Employees should see from the Customer's side and not judge by the dollar amount. I myself work in sales too, and I have gone above and beyond for the customer's satisfaction and not only does that look better for who I am and my comapny, but I get a lot of people saying that this person I previously helped told all these new people to come see me, and trust me my job in sales/customer service is not anything easy by any means, usualy no sales job is, but it's the point I am getting across.

Again, sorry if it offended you and this is also for any future readers as well because it was only ment to inform, but still I stand by my words.

Thank you for your reply.
Posted by Anonymous on 2008-03-21:
Cathy, I have to admit that I was getting ready to blast you especially after reading the title to your post. Then i realized that you may not understand, which is ok. The problem you have is you owe a sh@#$t load of money on the car you are driving and you cannot understand why you cannot trade out of it. What has not happened it seems is that the dealers have tried to be cordial to you and not explained the problem correctly to you there by creating a misrepresentation in your mind. I am sure you are a nice girl with outstanding credit, the problem actually exist in the loan to value. I understand that you are OK with transferring the negative equity to a new loan, the problem lies with the lender. The lender is not OK with over allowing some 7K on top of a new auto loan. I work with dealers everyday and I can tell you if we took your car to 7 different dealers for appraisal you will get 7 different estimates. Basically we all try to determine a cars value, but at best it is a guess. Your car will be worth more in different markets and less in others, you can never truly trust "book value". There is not a good answer to your problem, You are going to need alot of cash to get you out of your trade and sometimes dealers are afraid to tell you that even though you may be very understanding and accepting.
Posted by mitchjr on 2008-03-21:
Kelly Blue Book does not buy cars ,A cars value is what someone will pay for it,a dealer will not lose money thats not what they are in business for ,some cars are more valuble in different areas and different times of the year ,look at the value od a truck in Dallas and New york City
Posted by Cathy4903 on 2008-03-21:
DealerDirect...I am understanding and thank you for not bashing me because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me for voicing my own opinion. Thank you for your input and I am aware of the cash I need plus the credit etc etc. I am just going to figure somthing out and I am looking at used and certian cars in my price range so that w/ the neg. equity that it will balance me out...sounds funny, but It's already all in my head lol. Thanks though for your opinion, I enjoy it from everyone, sorry if I offended you.
Posted by Cathy4903 on 2008-03-21:
MitchJr, your correct because if you go to San Diego Cali, I see ONLY pt cruiser convertibles.
Posted by Aerocave on 2008-03-22:
Cathy:
You did not offend me. I have been in sales/sales management for nearly 15 years...therefore, it takes a lot to offend me. I can understand from the consumer point of view that your situation is frustrating--and then to top it off, you felt the customer service was lacking as well. Good luck to you!
Posted by Cathy4903 on 2008-03-22:
Yes, I decided to not buy right now and pay off my car w/in the next 1.5yrs then private sell, it's the only way :)

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