M and T Bank Complaint - Heartless Company - Overdraft Fees

Posted by justthefaxx on 2009-12-08:

Overdraft fees are your own fault. It doesn't matter if its hours or minutes before your direct deposit. You made a transaction hoping the direct deposit would cover it. The banks are not on your side and will post the debits before your deposit goes in. $1000 in two months? You need some education in banking.

Posted by clutzycook on 2009-12-08:

Wow, a grand in OD fees in just two months. Assuming $35 each, that's more than 28 overdrafts in two months. HOW?!

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

sometimes it's better to hold off on spending until you know for sure the money is there.

now my bank is pretty up to date with the online statement
not sure about others tho

but never ever rely on an atm statement of course

Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-12-09:

SISTER, you will find there is a dedicated crew here that even when the poster is admitting his mistake and is complaining about how the bank has capitalized on that mistake to the financial detriment of the poster. They will overlook the actual complaint and throw the poster under the bus and praise the bank.

Posted by MaggieMcT on 2009-12-09:

OP, you really can avoid these fees. But you have to keep a register, and you have to write checks/make debits only AFTER the money to cover them is in your account.
That's not "praising the banks," that's just the truth.

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

some of us feel it's a sorry state when we expect others to clean up after our mistakes

and then refuse to change anything in how we live to prevent those "mistakes" from happening again.

Posted by clutzycook on 2009-12-09:

MYTWIST, I am in hard times, but I'll be darned if I'm going to spend money I don't have and then come on here and complain that the bank punished me for it.

Posted by bearkatkitten on 2009-12-09:

"What unkind comments, I hope you never fall on hard times and hope to be treated fairly."

I live paycheck to paycheck, but I know how to balance my checkbook so I don't give the bank my money. I live on a strict budget until things can turn around... if they ever do.
There's ways to avoid overdraft fees. It's not hard. If consumers are getting multiple overdraft fees, blaming the bank isn't going to make them go away. They can either learn how to use a check register or use Quicken or whatever to keep track of their account better. Or switch banks and hope and pray that it indeed *was* the bank that was causing them all that grief. And, if it keeps happening again... chalk it up to it's not the bank, it's "me" that has to make the change and learn how to balance a checkbook and not rely solely on what it tells me online.
Anytime I've ever "stood up for the bank"; as people like to say... it's to tell the consumer how deposits work. How their debit card works and how to use a check book. That's not defending a bank, that's informing a consumer how to avoid overdraft fees. If the person is unwilling to heed some advice from someone who used to be just like that 'til I took the steps necessary to avoid overdraft fees and giving a bank money, so be it.

Posted by clutzycook on 2009-12-09:

don't worry, bearkat. Things will turn around. It's just going to take a bit of time.

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

bkk it's "unkind" because people hate it when they hear the truth....

Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-12-09:

Of all the comments posted for this review SISTER is the ONLY one who seemed to grasp the basis for the complaint. It amazes me how blind so many of you are as to how unfair the banks are being toward their customers.

It's not the overdraft fee that is the problem. It's the COMPOUNDING OF THE PROBLEM the banks are doing just because they can.

Don't argue this point. You can't see it so you cannot comment with any justification for this despicable behavior on the part of the banks.

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

so.... letting people overdraft as much as they want without consequences is "fair"? then?

that it's "unfair" to tell someone to manage their finances?


i've said it before and i'll say it again
people won't be happy until the banks just give money away for free

Posted by goduke on 2009-12-09:

Banks just need to quit covering overdrafts and return the checks/decline the charge. Period. Problem solved.

Posted by bearkatkitten on 2009-12-09:

Yes, they do, goduke.
Of course, they'll be the 50 million complaints of people griping because their check bounced or their transaction was declined... but there won't be the complaints of overdraft fees anymore. :-)

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

so either way banks will be blamed

Posted by KenPopcorn on 2009-12-09:

They are going to begin declining the debits next year, but you always were and will continue to be charged for a returned check. In that instance, OD protection is your friend.

Just wait, this time next year the screaming complaint will be "the bank declined my debit card and I had my whole week's groceries on the belt, and it is only 2 days before my direct deposit! They are cold and heartless to treat a good customer this way and we should start a class action suit"

And Chuck will chime in that banks are evil, the poster is totally right, and don't listen to the collabrative of bank defenders who post here.

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

ken - or that they will say that and blame the bank for being embarrassed at the checkout

Posted by memoryx57 on 2009-12-09:

The problem is NOT and NEVER has been an overdraft. The issue is TURNING 1 overdaft into 4...I personally have NEVER seen 1 complaint on this site where someone is griping about getting an overdraft that was legitimate. It's the way banks turn 1 "oops" into 12...JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN !! That my friends is the issue and NOT getting an overdraft..

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

actually what normally happens is that...

say you have 5 transactions going through. everything is within spending limits until #5 which is a check and made out for an amount that will make you OD.

but #5 is the biggest one so ... it goes through first.
keep in mind there is no law preventing this unless your state has one.


the quick and dirty solution to this is to not use checks, use money orders.

that way you know the money order will not bounce

yes they cost to use but... it's a small insurance policy if check writing is screiwng you over in this

Posted by KenPopcorn on 2009-12-09:

Mem, this very post complains about getting an overdraft that hit before the direct deposit. How can that be the bank's fault?

The simple truth is that not everyone should have a checking account. It just doesn't work for everybody. If this poster was using cash and money orders, they'd have an extra two grand to spend this Christmas. Less convenient? You bet! But in this example, convenience costs two thousand dollars.

Posted by KenPopcorn on 2009-12-09:

I think Pepper read my mind.

Posted by bearkatkitten on 2009-12-09:

Many of the complaints on overdraft fees I've seen stem from just relying what it tells you online.
They log in. Look at their available balance and spend. And then get upset when all these things post and they have 5 overdrafts.
They don't take in account that the checks they've written aren't going to show up as pending. Nor the things they've purchased with their debit card by using it as a credit card (they don't punch their pin code in); also don't always show up online as pending. So, they may have checks posting that night plus these debit card/credit card purchases... so everything else they do that day is going to bounce when that money gets collected from merchants.

Hopefully, when all these new laws go into effect about OD's being limited and for how much they go in the negatives... maybe, just maybe things might change. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

This complaint is about the same thing. Seems things went through before the direct deposit. If they're just solely relying on what it tells them online, then they aren't taking other things into factor. If purchases hit the account before the direct deposit, direct deposits usually post that morning, not the night before... when things post. That direct deposit isn't going to cover things that post that night.
It's like people trying to play the "float" game with their money. You can't do that anymore.

Posted by old fart on 2009-12-09:

If you can go on line to check your balance it's equally simple to balance your checkbook daily, nay, hourly if you wish...stop spending money you don't have in hand!

Posted by Stew on 2009-12-09:

Best answer and insight award goes to memoryx57,tnchuck100 and MYTWISTEDSISTER.

As far as what will happen when the new regulations kick in is just pure speculation and predicting how Chuck will respond is just rude.

Posted by JR in Orlando on 2009-12-09:

I amazes me that people who can pay $1,000 in overdraft fees, somehow can't set aside that money before then as a cushion in their account.

The banks have to adopt a uniform plan to handle deposit order. The choices seem to be: date of occurrence, largest to smallest, smallest to largest. If they do not have a uniform plan, cries of discrimination and unfairness would arise. Under whatever plan is used, some people will be hurt more than others. The largest to smallest plan makes sense in that the largest debit/check is usually most important. It has a rationale basis.

Imagine the squeal that will go up if an alternate plan results in someone's credit card payment being denied (causing their interest rates to go up) because their starbucks coffee debits came out first.

Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-12-09:

"The largest to smallest plan makes sense in that the largest debit/check is usually most important."

This argument holds no water whatsoever. They are paying them all anyway.

Posted by Nohandle on 2009-12-09:

Let's toss something else into the equation here. I personally keep a check register, do not do online banking so as a result don't rely on a balance I might see there. Just because someone keeps a check register does not necessarily reflect the true available balance in his account. I PERSONALLY have not had a problem but then the banking institution I primarily deal with doesn't hold a deposit for however long suits his fancy.

We've had too many complaints from members with overdraft fees. I've yet to come up with ONE particular bank quilty. Pick and choose. We've had complaints about all I can think of. Preying on the poor as some reviews have suggested? I think most will prey on every depositer if given the opportunity.

And, I also don't use a debit card. I believe many just don't understand how they work.

Posted by KenPopcorn on 2009-12-09:

NH, *most* don't have a clue how they work. If I had to pick on the banks for something, it would be that they don't educate the customer before they hand them the card. Starting next year, all checks will be considered 'local' checks, so normal checks almost completely go away. Still, if you don't have a very good track of your available balance, you ought to just pay cash.

Posted by PepperElf on 2009-12-09:

well obviously your check register will fail if you don't actually put in every transaction.

my mother does. if it goes into or comes out of her account, it's put in the register. (this includes using the debit card, or taking money directly out at the bank or an atm)


now personally my bank is pretty accurate on the web page with one exception - checks. they can't put a "pending" mark for a check that's been mailed off cos they don't have access to my mail or my brain to know a check has been sent off.

then again i've said here and at pfb that these days i don't use my account unless i verify ahead of time that there's money there. and i'v been keeping a close eye on what i spend to know if there's anything pending

Posted by bearkatkitten on 2009-12-09:

"I believe many just don't understand how they work."

No, they don't nohandle.
And that's where issues lie.

"I think most will prey on every depositer if given the opportunity."

Yes, it's not just the poor. Banks don't discriminate. If you have a bank account with any bank, they'll take your money whether you're rich or poor.

And yes, even the most anal retentive person that keeps their account in line with a register can have an overdraft. But, the point in record keeping is to keep that a minimum.
Things happen, a mis calculation in math or something. But, the fact that the responsibility isn't lying solely on a bank to keep someone in check of their finances... that's not their job... that's the person who opened an account's job.
The only thing I can say would be a bank's job is to educate someone on how a bank account works before sending them on their way. How debit card purchases work and the like.

Posted by Stew on 2009-12-09:

I still don't see what any of this accounting 101 has to do with banks being able to charge over 10,000% interest on short term loans they call overdraft protection. Overdraft protection is nothing more than a very expensive line of credit. Heck many states outlawed payday loans because they were charging 300% + interest yet banks are allowed to charge 10,000% + interest just because they convinced the gov & fed that it was convenience fee. I just don't get how people can approve of banks charging people 10,000% + interest.

Posted by Nohandle on 2009-12-09:

Stew, you'll never hear me approve of the interest charged on overdraft protection nor any term someone wishes to call it. We all scream about the interest charged but does anyone take into account the interest paid on investments with a bank? Nil to none. 4% 15 months ago is now down to 2% if reinvested for the same period of time. I'm past being fed up with it all.

Posted by bearkatkitten on 2009-12-09:

I've never approved of overdraft fees. I just simply say there's ways to avoid them. I've been using the check register movement long before online banking and overdraft fees became an issue. It's worked for me then, it works for me now. And a many people who use the check register, it seems to work for them too. Or, like my bf, he uses Quicken. Some businesses use Quicken... whatever they can do to keep track of their finances. It seems to work for them... especially when it comes to banking with big name or local banks.

Posted by Stew on 2009-12-09:

AMEN Nohandle. I've resorted to bonus checking accounts that pay 3.5% for the first 25K. Now of course you have to have one direct deposit and like 12 ATM transactions per month which is another reason I buy all my vending machine diet cokes with a debit card. As it stands now I have to make 36 non-pin debit card transactions a month. It's a jungle out there.

Posted by Stew on 2009-12-09:

BKK, Hey I agree people should keep track of their finances. I've used quicken for decades. I can account for every penny I've spent/earned since 1989. Keeping good accounting records not only helps you if you're living close to the edge but it's also a great tool to get you out of that payday to payday life style. I've had but one financial goal for the last 20 years and that was to increase my networth every quarter. Sans a couple of rogue quarters I've been able to accomplish that goal. I would not have been able to do that had it not been for precise record keeping and also financial learning beat into my head by my family. Those people just worship money.

Posted by LadyScot on 2009-12-12:

Twisteds, it doesn't matter WHY you spent more than you have. You are in effect stealing and the banks used to prosecute for it. I am so sick of the people who overspend and get the punishment yet blame the bank and everyone else for their habits. I am not going to be charitable to people like that.

I also live paycheck to paycheck and right now is a tough time for us financially. We didn't know if we were going to be able to keep our house. Out heating unit is out and we are using small heaters to keep warm. It is still about 55-60 in my house. We wear 2 layers and do the best we can.

What I do not do is swipe my debit card or write checks for money I do not have. No matter how bad it is, I am not a thief nor a crybaby. I also do not blame others for my mistakes. GROW UP and take responsibility.

Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-12-12:

TWISTED has made an excellent real-life scenario that must happen to thousands of people every day. The banks are unfairly profiteering from these conditions. As usual LadyScot and others do not comprehend the inequity being visited on the account holders. Using labels such as "thief" and "crybaby" goes even further to point out your failure to understand.

Posted by LadyScot on 2009-12-12:

Chuck, as usual you label me and the others who do NOT steal from our banks then cry when we have to pay the money back with interest as being unable to understand anything. Blame the big bad bank if that is what it takes to get you through the day.

The rest of us grownups who are responsible and don't need a handout can continue paying our own way.

Posted by tnchuck100 on 2009-12-12:

I "label" you this way because it is accurate. I did not say you could not understand ANYTHING. It's just that by the statements you make it is clear that you don't understand the what the complaint is really about.

Posted by MaggieMcT on 2009-12-12:

Speaking only for myself -- I DO understand that many of the complaints are about the way the banks reorder the debits, resulting in more overdraft fees. BUT -- I will continue to point out that these fees can be avoided by not overdrawing in the first place. A lot of posters give the impression that they think they have a right to overdraw their accounts. They don't.

Posted by Kennyseven on 2010-03-24:

Lets be real here.Banks know exactly what they are doing. They make money on the unfortunate or lets say unlucky people. They have studied spending habits of populations. Its true that 85 percent of people never overdraft and about 15 percent do on a regularly basis. Say like 7 overs a year. well that 15 percent of people pay approximately 68 percent of all service fees which equals billions of dollars. They say that letting you overdraft is a convenience for you....HORSECRAP ....they say that reposting your bills or debts from highest to lowest is in your best interest....HORSECRAP...they know how to make money and do it in a way that is just plain old tom foolery. Remember not everybody is perfect...and they take advantage of this fact! What happened to honest Banking!

Posted by Tyger Eye on 2012-07-10:

My grandson did some work for me, and I paid him with a check. I didn't have the cash on hand. I don't know what other banks are doing, but my M and T charged the boy $10 out of that check. It's outrageous.