EXXON Complaint - Exxon "Inconvenience" liquor sale policy - liquor sales

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Sorry, but if I am not mistaken, Exxon clerks must put a birth date into the register, taken from an "official id" before selling alcohol or tobacco products. No "judgment" calls allowed. Also, the clerk could have gotten in trouble for selling to you knowing it was for the lady (who was unable to provide id)
Good Policy, I really don't see a problem with that. Helps keep the stuff out of kids hands.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

many stores have either a 100% ID card policy
or a policy where if they feel you look under a specific age they have to ask.


As I see it she has 2 choices
1) take it as a compliment that she looked young enough to ask
2) understand that drinking responsibly means brining your ID card with you


update - ooo i didn't know that jkt.
that makes sense though.

Posted by bargod on 2010-04-20:

You seem very worked up about this, perhaps you should sit down with a can of beer and relax.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

LMAO bargod

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

Heck, I'll even buy (because I have my ID)

Posted by trp2hevn on 2010-04-20:

So if the clerk gets fired for not doing their job, are you going to support them and their family? I'm not sure about the laws in TX, but where I live, anyone buying alcohol or cigarettes has to show ID.

Posted by tnchuck100 on 2010-04-20:

Another example of society's dedication toward stomping out any form of common sense. It seems to get worse with each passing decade.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

trp i doubt it.

many people want to be the exception to the rule
even if it means that the employee will suffer for it.


tnc - what's fun is when the people trying to buy are trying to purchase after midnight in areas where it's illegal, and they get mad that the employee won't break the law for them.

Posted by trp2hevn on 2010-04-20:

Exactly Pepper!

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Totally agree Chuck. Also, Texas does not have a mandatory ID law. In fact I can't remember the last time I got ID'ed in Tejas buying beer going back to when I was 17. Back in the day in Tejas if you were old enough to walk to the counter then you were old enough to buy beer. It's sad the sissy faction has pinked up Tejas.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

From what I've been told, the texas law doesn't mandate that but....

the stores have the legal right to specify that they only accept texas ID, and the legal right to refuse a sale to anyone without an ID, etc.

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Just because the stores have the 'legal right' doesn't make it right.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

why is it not right to ask someone to show id to purchase?

as long as the store has the policy posted, then there's nothing wrong with enforcing it
even if the customer disagrees

Posted by tnchuck100 on 2010-04-20:

Exactly what I am talking about, Pepper. ANYTHING to thwart common sense at every opportunity.

The whole intent is to stop alcohol sales to minors. That got lost in the bureaucratic mud. Forget the intent - see how many people you can piss off just because you can.

In the OP's situation the clerk was simply being a pain in the butt. Common sense would have dictated the woman was of age. The man's ID would have satisfied the legal aspect.

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

I'm curious to know how many people leave their house with no id.

I think I did it once in the last 20 years.

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

AMEN and +100 CHUCK!!!

I leave my house all the time without my ID. I seldom take my wallet when I go walking or biking around the neighborhood which is pretty often.

Are we in police state now were all citizens must at all times carry proper ID in order thwart off the boogie men. Man, I never thought I'd see the day.

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

Stew, just how smart do you think that is?

Ever have to deal with an accident victim, only to find out that you have no clue who they are, because they are not carrying any ID? No?

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

I don't think it's dumb. Are you saying if I get into an accident I won't receive emergency or medical services unless the techs can locate proper ID?

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

3 things I always have on me, when I leave the house, ID, Pants, and Handgun

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

However if you plan on purchasing a regulated substance you should be responsible about it.

having a fit because someone told you "no" isn't the adult response.


again - if the store policy is posted that you are required to show ID for a purchase then you need to show id.

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

Stew --No, but it certainly is nice if you can try to contact family member(s) to find out if there are existing medical conditions, because that and knowing about any meds they are taking can make a world of difference.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

NO, so your next of kin can be notified. (sorry to interrupt)

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

Jkt, you are my kind of guy!

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

oh just toe tag me and call me john doe number four.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Pepper, I don't think being a "posted" policy would be necessary. I just don't understand the problem of showing ID for purchasing booze or tobacco products, regardless of how old you look. Ya got your wallet out to pay for it.
The exception would be me walking down the street minding my own business, and an leo just pulling up and asking for my id with no cause. I would then ask why and things would proceed from there.

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

So jkt you don't have a problem with a mandate that required a state issued id in order to buy or sell something in this case being alcohol or tobacco.

Ya know the snake handlers told me this day was coming and within my lifetime but with all that speaking in tongues I thought they were just nuts. Imagine my surprise.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

well that too jkt
i never leave without my wallet / id

in fact no one i personally know does that either, simply because if they're going out, they are going to run into situations where it'll be needed.

the only time i can imagine going out without it would be to say, take a quick walk around the block.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

as for a mandate
that is nothing new

you need an ID to pick up 'scripts
to pick up behind-the-counter meds
to drive a car
take a flight
to leave/enter the country
purchase/sell firearms

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

PepperElf, It's very new within the last fifty years.

Posted by goduke on 2010-04-20:

I can imagine that this might have smelled of a Texas gov't sting to the folks at Exxon. Someone comes in to the booze barn and wants just one can but doesn't have a license. Then someone comes in to buy it and (wink, wink) assures the folks at the counter it's for him, not the person with him who tried to buy it in the first place. Knowing how Texas loves to nail establishments for selling improperly, I can understand why they might have been a tad nervous.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

that doesn't mean it's a bad thing

unless you're proposing perhaps that we do away with any requirement for id cards?

including the list i gave?


oh yeah and you also need an id to get a ccw too

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

In TN it is a Carry Permit, does not have to be concealed.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

in texas it's CCW - for handguns that is

(& they accept CCWs from other states)

for rifles it's open carry since... it's pretty hard to conceal them.
esp since the legal limit is 16' or longer on the barrel.

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

Jkt, I believe that it's the same in VA, too.

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

I don't recall see anything in the second amendment or in the constitution as a whole that requires a state issued id in order to bear arms.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Latest information I can find, TN's permit is recognized in 34 states. Of those, 18 have formal reciprocity agreements with TN. Not too bad,

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

actually if you read what i wrote i said "sell/purchase"

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

jkt - yeah texas is one of those states.

ny however isn't.
if i'm not mistaken for the NY permit you even have to list 3 character witnesses
and those witnesses have to have valid permits


pretty much it's as Gunny once said... they try to put in as much red tape as possible to discourage you from owning a gun. he meant california mainly but it could apply for NY too

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

So you're denied your second amendment RIGHTS in 16 states and that's 'not too bad'.

I often wonder how large a brick our founding fathers would [BEEP] if they could see us today. Sad.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Stew, I am in complete agreement with you, but (and you well know my views gubment intrusion) I do believe the current laws, when enforced, serve the purpose of keeping legal weapons out of the hands of illegal people. Just makes a lot of people "feel" better. LOL!

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Indeed Jkt giving up your rights for security is always an awesome exchange.

That brick just got larger.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

actually you're not denied to carry unless you're a felon

but .... they do try to make it harder for law-abiding citizens to carry.

except in texas.
my bf got the ccw and told me about the process.

you have to pass the shooting test (he was 1 or 2 shots short of perfect), but you also have to take a test on knowing where you can and can't carry, and common sense on when you can but shouldn't

not a bad idea really

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

THREAD HIJACK!!!!LOL!
I carry a weapon 'cause a cops too heavy.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

i've thought of it.
but i don't feel like being responsible for a firearm here.

maybe when i get to wherever my bf is cos i know he'll have a collection anyway. it'd make sense to get my own license.

last 2 times i shot (for the navy) i did pretty good actually. not as good as my bf did on his ccw test but pretty good nonetheless

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Pepper, would you rather be the woman laying in an alley beaten, raped and robbed or would you rather be the woman explaining why she shot someone?

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Jkt, I don't think we're hijacking this thread because it's all relevant. The state requiring a state issued ID to purchase/carry a weapon is no different than the state compelling businesses to require a state issue ID for the purchase of goods. Same concept although sometimes indirect.

I don't know how any gun owner who claims the second amendment gives them the right to bear arms can defend the state applying non-constitutional restrictions to that right. Either you believe it gives you the right as written or you don't. There can be no middle ground because once there is, once you say yeah it's a good idea to let the state deem who is worthy of rights and who isn't then you will end up with none. History tells us that. It's just that simple.

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

What's your carry preference, Jkt?

Posted by old fart on 2010-04-20:

The second amendment was a response to Britain's effort to deny the American settlers any chance to enforce a revolt....
In this day and age it is simply an excuse for every gun heavy schmuck to own unnecessary firepower with no logical or particular target in sight...(apologies to Jktshff)...

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

OF, no particular target? I'm not looking for a "target".

Posted by DebtorBasher on 2010-04-20:

I remember reading a complaint about someone being refused the sale of beer because they had children with them.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

jkt - where did you get the impression that i'm against owning firearms?

i just don't need one where i live. seriously.
i'm in an upper-middle quiet residential area, in an apartment "complex" where people don't wander through much.

right now when i go out, it's usually to my college campus (can't carry on a SUNY campus), or church (don't need to carry in church), or the grocery store.

yes there are higher crime areas but i usually don't have a need to go into them.

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Indeed Basher. Let's restate. Exxon's policy of not selling liquor to an adult is just beyond ridiculous.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Good point Stew. But, in a society as ours, where everyone, regardless of their beliefs, has a right to be heard, some give and take is necessary. Like it no, but like a good debate, ya gotta put up with the bad as well as the good, I can't think of any other country where I want to go, much less live.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

OF, somehow I knew you would "arrive". It is my belief that he 2nd amendment was written so the Citizens would retain the right and the ability to defend themselves against a tyrannical and unjust government. It's part of the Constitution and the only link to britain proclaimed our freedom from that tyranny.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Pepper, you misunderstood, I was making a point for you to go ahead and get your permit, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Posted by old fart on 2010-04-20:

Hey HG_3.... it probably be a good idea to remove your address from this post or risk getting all kinds of kooky mail...!

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

of course you're assuming the purchaser looked like an adult.

all we know is that her age was 45 but there's no proof that she actually looked 45.

i knew a japanese woman who looked like she was under 16 when she was in her mid 20s.


and if a store wants to have a policy of 100% id card checks they are legally allowed to do it.

if you want that changed i suggest you change the laws

Posted by DebtorBasher on 2010-04-20:

Old F...that's the address for Exxon, not the OP's home address.

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Yes Jkt unless of course the state deems the person not fit because of felonious past or 'mental health' issues to not bear arms then that's okay because it's protecting us.

Our founding fathers when they shot the first shots of the revolution were criminals, insurgents and domestic terrorists. Winning the war made them Patriots. Now think about it. Under our system of law their rights to own guns in the very country they fought for and founded would be denied with great fanfare I might add. Isn't that funny.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

ahhh ok. yeah, but no. i don't need one. plus i don't have 3 character witnesses.

i mean i guess i could list the chief of police as one since i grew up 3 doors down from him (before he moved) but i haven't seen him in like 25 years.

plus i'm watching my $ and what i spend it on.
can't really afford any firearms.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Dryad, when I travel, I carry a 9mm KelTek P11 auto, cheap, reliable.
At home and around town I switch between a Glock 27 .40 with extended clip or a Baby Desert Eagle in .45 depending upon how hot it is outside and what I am wearing. Even though legal to carry open, I usually carry concealed.

gotta go pick up the grandson!

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Stew, we are in complete agreement.

Posted by old fart on 2010-04-20:

The right to keep and bear arms was the nation's response in respect to keeping a standing army or defense force, not that everyone who could, should be able to shoot anything that moved...

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

You're right PepperElf I'm assuming too much. I assume a reasonable person can tell the difference between a 60 year old man and a 19 year old girl. Well actually I'm assuming Exxon has the capability to hire reasonable people. Obviously that assumption is incorrect. My bad.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

it's not about the older man

it's about the fact he was purchasing for someone without an id

since they could not verify HER age they have no way to prove he wasn't buying for a minor

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Well PepperElf that's just ridiculous. Now the store is denying selling beer to an adult because of some suspected hidden motive? Oh give me a break.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

this is nothing new.

most stores do this, not just exxon.

if they have a policy that the person buying the alcohol doesn't have an id
they don't let someone else purchase for them.

and you don't realize this but many o those lil gas stations actually get checked by the company to verify this

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-20:

Indeed it's COMPANY policy and not Texas state law. Texas doesn't require an ID. Texas doesn't hold the store clerk responsible for selling beer to an adult who's buying it for a minor. So, yes these are all STORE policies not based upon law but based upon the store's inability to hire reasonable people who can distinguish between a 60 year old man and an 19 year old girl.

I'm glad we finally found some common ground on this one.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

but the law allows them to do this.

which means you would still have to change the law to prevent stores from asking people to show id

Posted by COOKIES! on 2010-04-20:

Cashier IDs girl that looks 19/20 since she's young, then cashier does not ID the older, 45 year old looking man behind her. Next thing the cashier hears is "You only ID'd me because I was a female/asian/____" add whatever you want. Yes, I've seen people flip out over it. Also, some people just look young, I'm 24 and I am always carded which is reasonable, and my ID scanned for legality since I look so young.

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

Heh, I got carded last year at a VA ABC store (I'm 41), and the cashier couldn't believe my age. I asked her why she could not believe it, and she told me I look so much younger. I don't know what her problem was.

Posted by TheNewSheriff on 2010-04-20:

Her problem is that she was presented with a situation in which a 41-year old adult looked like a beautiful young minor. Dryad, Dryad, Dryad. Always causing trouble of some sort.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

OF: long story short, I got my guns, you don't want any. Just don't push your beliefs thru gubment legislation to undermine my right. It is still a free country.

Posted by Dryad on 2010-04-20:

Jkt +10

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Now, me and my grandson are going shooting. See ya'll later.

Posted by Starlord on 2010-04-20:

When I worked security in Ruidoso, NM, New Mexico law required that even if you had a long white beard, you were carded when you purchased alcohol. Arizona has police explorers try to buy beer or cigarettes, with the instruction that they are not to lie about their age if asked and to have their ID. They nailed a lot of places for selling to underage purchasers. jkt, I went out of the house one day and got to WalMart before I discovered I did not have my ID, and sweated bullets until I got home. I carry a Springfield Armory XD-45 in a Blackhawk Serpa holster with a Washington Concealed Pistol License. I am disabled and use a cane, and have seen the number of times people mugged were disabled. I cannot reasonably fight or run, and the police are minutes away, when seconds count, but I got 14 reasons for muggers to leave me alone, 185 gr JHP. Stew, most of us do not want the hassle of going to court on a CCW arrest, so we get the licensing. Pity we don't live in Alaska, where anyone may carry concealed with no permit.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-04-20:

i get carded when i go to wegmans - they have a 100% id policy. Mom gets carded too and she's a senior citizen.

the mom & pop place down the street from me... they card me too. all the time. and it's not because of a specific policy, they just look at me and say... she looks young, better card her.

but hell, to a girl who's 37 having someone card me because they think i look young? um... ok that's a compliment! =)

Now the ones who TICK me off are Fed ex. They deliver alcohol but don't verify that the person receiving is is 21. Seriously. Knock, drop off the box, leave.

O_o

Posted by Starlord on 2010-04-20:

Somebody asked me why I carry a .45. I looked them right in the eye and said, "Because they don't make a .46. LOL
In Washington, the CPL is purely a revenue enhancer. Remember what Gallagher once said, "When they take it from your hance to their hance, their income is enhanced." You pay $55 and pass the FBI record check, and you have your license ($58 if you want it laminated.) No class is required, they don't even know if you know how to load your weapon. No information is asked as to if you are aware of where and when you may carry, and absolutely nothing is ascertained as to whether you know when or under what circumstances you may use lethal physical force. The last figure I saw was that 225,000 Washingtonians have Concealed Pistol Licenses. It is a small cost, as I said, especially since CCW without the license is a misdemeanor. Both of our Democratic female Senators voted 'NO' on the National Right to Carry vote, which the Democrats decided had to have a supermajority of 60 votes to pass, instead of a simple majority of 51. The bill was defeated by a vote of 58 to 42, if my math is correct. This is not an overwhelming mandate. Thank Barbara Boxer and her fairy tale about legal gun owners carrying burlap sacks of illegal weapons into California. We will revisit this topis after November, when we kick out all the incompetents, I mean incumbents. BTW, Seattle has a city ordinance that prohibits the carrying of any concealed weapon longer than six feet in length.

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-04-20:

Starlord, the requirements in TN are stricter, http://www.state.tn.us/safety/handgunmain.htm . That being said, I have carried since the late '60's

Posted by Disaster Worker on 2010-04-21:

The TABC has very strict rules about selling alcohol and showing the correct ID is one of those rules. TABC sends undercover agents in all the time to see if they can get stores and clerks to break the rules. The store stands to lose their liquor license if they don't adhere to TABC!

Posted by skelly39 on 2010-04-21:

Well, if it makes the OP or anyone else feel better, I was picking up a pack of smokes for my husband (it's my month-iversary without cigarettes today) and the guy at the register asked for my DOB even though I've purchased from him a million times before. I told him and he was kind enough to point out that I'm turning 40 soon. Gee...thanks. *&&

Posted by Stew on 2010-04-21:

Disaster Worker, Texas law does not require an ID check before selling alcohol. The TABC says as much on their website.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcement/age_verification.asp

Posted by Justice-4-All2 on 2010-04-21:

In our part of New Mexico, they go a step further. They will, AND HAVE, come outside to see if minors are in your vehicle. If present, they will not sell it to you. Although, I've only noticed this at one particular store and no others. This store and the surrounding area are habitually known for underage drinking and buying for minors.

Posted by FloridaLizardQueen on 2010-12-12:

Where I work if I ask someone for ID and they don't have it, I am legally obligated to refuse the sale. For all I know, it could be a police sting and if I sold beer or cigarettes to someone without proper ID and I get caught, that is the loss of my job and jail time.

Posted by Starlord on 2010-12-13:

In Washington, which is an Open Carry state, you can get a CPL, and your weapon must be concealed at all times. Seattle has an interesting city ordinance, in that you are prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon longer than six feet in length (Trenton Pickle Ordinance, a book of crazy laws.)

Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-12-13:

While we are on the subject,

THP Traffic Stop

Seems a Tennessee Hillbilly makes a rolling stop at a
stop sign, and gets pulled over by a local policeman. Guy hands the
cop his driver's license, insurance verification, plus his HCP.

"Okay, Mr. Smith," the cop says, "I see your HCP permit. Are you
carrying today?"

"Yes, I am."

"Well then, better tell me what you got."

Smith says, "Well, I got a .357 revolver in my inside coat pocket.
There's a 9mm semi-auto in the glove box. And, I've got a .22 magnum
derringer in my right boot."

"Okay," the cop says. "Anything else?"

"Yeah, back in the trunk, there's an AR15 and a shotgun.. That's about it."

"Mr. Smith, are you on your way to or from a gun range...?"

"Nope."

"Well then, what are you afraid of.....?"

"Not a dang thing..."

Posted by MRM on 2010-12-13:

Why dont they check for ID at the ABC liquior store? Im under 40 and never had to ask for ID there.

Posted by HG_3 on 2010-12-14:

Funny to see new comments so long after the post....
Many of the people responding failed to realize that SHE DID HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE ID...It just was EXPIRED! Still was her pic, address, signature...just wasn't VALID to drive on!!!!!

Posted by Andrea13 on 2010-12-14:

An expired license is not valid or acceptable, no matter which way you cut it.

Posted by HG_3 on 2010-12-16:

Funny...I don't believe my birth certificate "expires"...so how does my ID not still show who I am just because the state wants more money after a couple years?

Posted by FloridaLizardQueen on 2011-02-03:

@ HG_3, even if the date of birth and the person's picture check out ok on the license, it still CANNOT BE EXPIRED. We can get in trouble for that too if we accept an expired ID no matter if it is a driver's license, ID card, passport or whatever is government issued. It MUST BE current.