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Virgin Atlantic Airways Complaint - Robbed of $600 by Virgin Atlantic
Complaint
Robbed of $600 by Virgin Atlantic
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This the tale of how Virgin Atlantic decided to make an extra $600 off of us when its staff knew we had no other option. Don't risk your trip on this airline. This can easily happen to you.
We were returning to the U.S. after a four-day visit to London. We were delayed leaving because I had been feeling ill that day. We arrived rushing as best we could, and were even held up by Virgin staff trying to sell a seat upgrade.
By the time we arrived at the baggage check-in, it was 3:05 P.M. and our flight was leaving at 4 P.M. The agent took a few moments to review our documents, then asked someone else whether we could still put our bags on the flight. That person said no. Given that there were other passengers who were already at the check-in desk when we arrived who still were loading their bags, I know it was merely a Virgin policy to not allow us to load the bags and not any other restriction from the airport.
What was the next and only option? They charged us almost $600 more to take seats on a flight four hours later that was 70% empty. It sent an unmistakable signal: Virgin enjoys sticking it to customers who had some bad fortune.
Again, don't risk a flight on this airline. It's like the worst of the credit card companies or other shysters in the market - the second they can find a reason and know you have no alternative, they'll unjustly suck as much money out of you as they can.
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This the tale of how Virgin Atlantic decided to make an extra $600 off of us when its staff knew we had no other option. Don't risk your trip on this airline. This can easily happen to you.
We were returning to the U.S. after a four-day visit to London. We were delayed leaving because I had been feeling ill that day. We arrived rushing as best we could, and were even held up by Virgin staff trying to sell a seat upgrade.
By the time we arrived at the baggage check-in, it was 3:05 P.M. and our flight was leaving at 4 P.M. The agent took a few moments to review our documents, then asked someone else whether we could still put our bags on the flight. That person said no. Given that there were other passengers who were already at the check-in desk when we arrived who still were loading their bags, I know it was merely a Virgin policy to not allow us to load the bags and not any other restriction from the airport.
What was the next and only option? They charged us almost $600 more to take seats on a flight four hours later that was 70% empty. It sent an unmistakable signal: Virgin enjoys sticking it to customers who had some bad fortune.
Again, don't risk a flight on this airline. It's like the worst of the credit card companies or other shysters in the market - the second they can find a reason and know you have no alternative, they'll unjustly suck as much money out of you as they can.
Comments:
Posted by Ben There on 2010-09-25:
Airports themselves do not have restrictions on when bags can be checked before a flight, but bags headed to certain destinations like the USA must endure extra security screening so they must be checked in earlier. The likelihood of your bag being sent for the additional screening and then making it out to the plane are very slim 45-50 minutes before departure - at that point the flight is already boarding, and bags have to be matched to passengers for international flights to the USA. The choices are kicking you off the flight to fly later with your bags, or delaying 300 other people if your bags are not processed quickly.
It would have been great customer service if Virgin would have waived the change fees of your ticket, but some might say if they did that for you, they would have to do it for everyone. If there were no penalties for showing up late for a flight, probably many more people would risk it. Seriously, who wants to get to an airport 3 hours before a flight if you can do it 50 minutes before a flight.
It would have been great customer service if Virgin would have waived the change fees of your ticket, but some might say if they did that for you, they would have to do it for everyone. If there were no penalties for showing up late for a flight, probably many more people would risk it. Seriously, who wants to get to an airport 3 hours before a flight if you can do it 50 minutes before a flight.
Posted by rockfishing on 2010-09-25:
I've always have shown up on time and have never had a problem. I'm sure everyone would love to show up late with no penalty.
Posted by James_236 on 2010-09-25:
It seems you were only late by 5 minutes, and if it was you the agent was trying to sell an upgrade and that made you late, you have a cause of action against Virgin to recover the charges. Write them a letter setting out your intended claim and then it is open to you to file an action in small claims court in your State. To make it more interesting claim not only a reimbursement of your $600 but also damages for the four hours delay. I would ask the Judge for a minimum of $500 per person for the delay. You don't need a lawyer for a small claims court case.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-09-25:
rock ... exactly. i have usually gotten to the airport 2-3 hours early.. once i got to the airport before it was open even... tho the lobby was open at least so i could wait inside.
Posted by Ben There on 2010-09-25:
Can you sue a British company about an instance that happened in London in a US Small Claims court? Besides, all the airline has to say is that it takes a couple seconds to ask if you want an upgrade (I have heard it many times)... Its also well known and documented that you are supposed to check in early for flights to the USA. If the judge finds against the OP, couldn't he or she be responsible for Virgins costs?
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-09-25:
Knowingly making someone sit at the airport for four hours when they are ill, is pretty insensitive. Then adding $600 on top of that--whew. I'll bet the luggage would have easily gotten on the flight in less than 1/2 an hour, especially since they were also just putting other peoples luggage on the belt. I have been amazed at how some of my transferred luggage has made connection flights.
Alternatively, the airline could have offered to send the luggage on the next flight (since it was nearly empty) and let the passengers leave on their scheduled flight. The passengers could then pick it up at the airport or the airline could have had it delivered for a fee. No harm, no foul.
Sometimes rules can and are broken depending on the agent. I think they could have used a little more compassion in this instance. Everything is not always black and white. I've even been on flights where they hold the doors open for someone arriving late. Rules are broken every day for extenuating circumstances. I guess it just depends on the airline and the agents/supervisors working at the time.
Alternatively, the airline could have offered to send the luggage on the next flight (since it was nearly empty) and let the passengers leave on their scheduled flight. The passengers could then pick it up at the airport or the airline could have had it delivered for a fee. No harm, no foul.
Sometimes rules can and are broken depending on the agent. I think they could have used a little more compassion in this instance. Everything is not always black and white. I've even been on flights where they hold the doors open for someone arriving late. Rules are broken every day for extenuating circumstances. I guess it just depends on the airline and the agents/supervisors working at the time.
Posted by Ben There on 2010-09-25:
singsing, actually bags have to travel with the passenger on international flights - sure sometimes bags get lost and this does not happen, but it is illegal for an airline to intentionally separate bags and passengers when the flight is from or to the USA. Rules can and are broken, but much less often when the US Department of Homeland Security is the enforcer...
Also, just because other peoples bags were going on the belt does not mean they were for this flight... Virgin is hubbed at Heathrow, so other peoples bags could have been going to other cities.
Also, just because other peoples bags were going on the belt does not mean they were for this flight... Virgin is hubbed at Heathrow, so other peoples bags could have been going to other cities.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-09-25:
My bags have come without me (because they were not put on the flight), so I guess that's what I was thinking, Ben. I took the OP to mean the other's were boarding their flight too, but, it is possible they were boarding flights to other destinations, as you said.
Using an example. I know that the aircraft doors are supposed to close within a certain amount of time before a flight (15-20 minutes--not sure), but I have seen them left open way beyond that to let latecomers on, so I know they don't always follow Homeland Security rules. This has happened in the US and internationally. I think they still need to use common sense sometimes too, and I've seen the rules broken many times for different circumstances. I think illness would be a good example.
Using an example. I know that the aircraft doors are supposed to close within a certain amount of time before a flight (15-20 minutes--not sure), but I have seen them left open way beyond that to let latecomers on, so I know they don't always follow Homeland Security rules. This has happened in the US and internationally. I think they still need to use common sense sometimes too, and I've seen the rules broken many times for different circumstances. I think illness would be a good example.
Posted by Helpful on 2010-09-26:
It's unfortunate that they couldn't or wouldn't accommodate you. I'd like to hear their side of the story though.
Posted by James_236 on 2010-09-26:
Article 33 of the Montreal Convention provides a number of alternative jurisdictions where the passenger may bring his claim and one is the place of destination, so he can surely file in small claims court in his State. Virgin is a British company but if they want to fly in and out of the United States they have to be subject to the juridsiction of US courts even for matters that take place in London if the passenger complains that those matters caused him to be delayed on a flight into the US. A losing Plaintiff in small claims may be required to pay a nominal sum for court costs to a successful defendant, but this is not for the Attorney's fees. It is a very small sum, perhaps under $100. Some jurisdictions don't allow Attorneys and those that do, do not reimburse your Attorneys fees if successful. The OP seems to think that the agent who tried to sell the upgrade kept them back so this is all he has to tell the court. The airline cannot counter with it only takes a few seconds unless they brought to the court the actual agent who tried to sell the upgrade who could give evidence that it took only a few seconds in this case. It cannot be worth the while for Virgin to fly and put up lawyers and witnesses for a small claims case and Virgin will hardly defend this case. On the day of the case the OP will simply set out in his own words what happened and the Judge will make a decision. Although Virgin is not one of main offenders, it is time passengers begin bringing airlines to justice.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-09-26:
james, someone will correct me, but I believe 2hrs ahead is recommended for international flights.
Posted by James_236 on 2010-09-26:
Someone may correct me too, but I think the 2 hours is the "recommended" arrival time at the airport, but the cutoff for check-in of bags is one hour, but the OP's story is that the agent looked at their documents then asked someone else if their bags could still get on the flight, bearing out that they were just minutes out of time and even the agent thought they might have made it.
Posted by Ben There on 2010-09-26:
There are plenty of time where I did not feel like getting to the airport at the proper time because I was really tired, had a broken arm, hungover, getting lucky, busy with work, not feeling well, upset because I was at a funeral, eating Christmas dinner with family, etc... There are also times when I paid money to change my flight because I knew I was not going to make the flight or I was sick and didn't want to share germs with other passengers.
However, if I got to an airport right at the cut off time and missed the minimum check in time I would never try to blame someone who was just doing his or her job of upselling a seat, or whatever few seconds diversion I might encounter... The reason I am late for the flight is all on me because I didn't allow enough time to get to the airport.
There is always the chance that something will go wrong the tube or taxi might be delayed, you forget something and have to turn around, you wake up late, but that is life, NOT A COURT CASE! I wish more people would accept responsibility for their own actions instead of suing.
However, if I got to an airport right at the cut off time and missed the minimum check in time I would never try to blame someone who was just doing his or her job of upselling a seat, or whatever few seconds diversion I might encounter... The reason I am late for the flight is all on me because I didn't allow enough time to get to the airport.
There is always the chance that something will go wrong the tube or taxi might be delayed, you forget something and have to turn around, you wake up late, but that is life, NOT A COURT CASE! I wish more people would accept responsibility for their own actions instead of suing.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-09-26:
Ben There, I liked your list of reasons (1st paragraph). I had to laugh. It is true. I've had many of the same scenarios and have also changed my flights at cost just because I didn't feel like going yet--for whatever reason.
I still feel sympathetic to anyone who is traveling and ill and it would have been nice if things had been worked out differently by the employees since it was a close call. The $600 and 4 hour wait was the icing on the cake.
I still feel sympathetic to anyone who is traveling and ill and it would have been nice if things had been worked out differently by the employees since it was a close call. The $600 and 4 hour wait was the icing on the cake.
Posted by Ben There on 2010-09-26:
Yeah, I feel sorry too, but I can see both sides of the story. Risk a delay and penalize the 300 people who checked in on time, or deny boarding and penalize the person who was late.
Because Heathrow is so busy and is slot controlled, if you take a delay waiting for baggage it might mean an hour of extra taxiing if you lose your spot in line for take off. I had this happen to me in Newark - some bags were loaded, but the corresponding passengers never got on the plane. It took 30 minutes to find the bags in the hold, but we were hours late taking off because we got in the back of the line during Europe rush hour.
Because Heathrow is so busy and is slot controlled, if you take a delay waiting for baggage it might mean an hour of extra taxiing if you lose your spot in line for take off. I had this happen to me in Newark - some bags were loaded, but the corresponding passengers never got on the plane. It took 30 minutes to find the bags in the hold, but we were hours late taking off because we got in the back of the line during Europe rush hour.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-09-26:
the case one would have to prove is whether or not the 5 minutes - if it was even that long - caused this to happen.
but in order to prove that you'd also have to prove that the upsale would have caused this to happen if if the OP had been at the airport earlier.
or rather.. isn't it always the case? when you're running late everyone in front of you seems to move too slowly. or something happens that makes you even later? is it the fault of the people ahead of you?
yes going anywhere while sick feels bad, but sometimes you have to do it. and yes i've traveled while sick.. once i pretty much traveled oh... just a few hours after getting out of the hospital. people were nice to me at least. .. i left the hospital tags on until i got home.
but in order to prove that you'd also have to prove that the upsale would have caused this to happen if if the OP had been at the airport earlier.
or rather.. isn't it always the case? when you're running late everyone in front of you seems to move too slowly. or something happens that makes you even later? is it the fault of the people ahead of you?
yes going anywhere while sick feels bad, but sometimes you have to do it. and yes i've traveled while sick.. once i pretty much traveled oh... just a few hours after getting out of the hospital. people were nice to me at least. .. i left the hospital tags on until i got home.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-09-26:
Ben, that does sound like a hellish place to fly out of. Haven't been there in years.
When I fly out of Singapore, the airport is so organized that I've started arriving 1 1/2 hours before flight time. I still have an hour or more after check-in. I wish all airports ran so smoothly.
When I fly out of Singapore, the airport is so organized that I've started arriving 1 1/2 hours before flight time. I still have an hour or more after check-in. I wish all airports ran so smoothly.
Posted by Ben There on 2010-09-26:
Singapore has a great airport, swimming pool and all. Newark and Heathrow are the anti-Changi.
I also like the new Bangkok airport. For a city that is so chaotic, the airport experience is really nice.
I also like the new Bangkok airport. For a city that is so chaotic, the airport experience is really nice.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-09-26:
Hong Kong's airport is pretty nice too. Haven't flown into Bangkok yet, but at least I know the airport will be decent :) My son hates JFK, Laguardia and Newark too.
I've never seen the swimming pool at Changi--where is it? I'm usually in a daze when I get there--either coming in after all those hours on a plane or getting there at the crack of dawn when I'm half asleep. No time for sight seeing, lol.
I've never seen the swimming pool at Changi--where is it? I'm usually in a daze when I get there--either coming in after all those hours on a plane or getting there at the crack of dawn when I'm half asleep. No time for sight seeing, lol.
Posted by Ben There on 2010-09-26:
The pool is in Terminal 1. There is a fee to use it unless you are staying at that airport hotel. Hong Kong is nice - the Cathay Pacific Lounges are amazing.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-09-26:
Oh, okay, Ben. Interesting and I'll be checking that pool out--while I'm waiting for my flight in a couple of weeks. Have only been to Japan Airlines lounge in HK. It was nice too.
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