Nationwide Corporation Complaint - Nationwide is not on the consumer's side - Totaled our auto and their valuation much too low for replacement.

Posted by Skye on 2010-10-11:

Insurance companies also base how they price totaled/loss cars by fair market value. I know how you feel.

Posted by spiderman2 on 2010-10-11:

I know you are looking at other 2000 Honda Accords as comparable, but do they have 381,000 miles on them? That is a lot of miles (go Honda!!!) and I'm guessing that is where the problem is coming in. The average car is driven 10,000 miles per year and yours is averaging almost 35,000 per year. The mileage being that high has to affect the value. Unfortunately, insurance companies don't look at the value to you, they deal in cold, hard numbers.
Good luck to you.

Posted by trmn8r on 2010-10-11:

OK, I took the bait. The KBB numbers I got with this mileage for private resale were $4340 in Excellent condition and $3890 in Good Condition. That is a 2000 4dr EX V6 loaded. Seems to me these are in the ballpark of the insurance co numbers, give or take.

Posted by bluediamond98 on 2010-10-11:

The $4500 seems quite reasonable for a vehicle with that much mileage on it. I know it is worth more to you because you put so much into it but I don't think you will be getting much more. In the dealer prices you mentioned, you left out the mileage and it is a key factor in determining the amount your vehicle is worth. I hope you get as much as you can. Good luck!

Posted by cricko on 2010-10-11:

The insurance company has the obligation of indemnification. In other words put the party that was at no fault back in the shape they were in before the accident. Why should the innocent person in the wreck take a loss?
To trmn8r: I'm looking at suggested retail. When you find a one owner vehicle like ours in excellent shape, let me know about it.
To spiderman2: $2000 because of high mileage? C'mon man. High mileage on highway is nothing if taken care of. That car had an oil change every 3K and it didn't burn a drop. Still had power it had the day we bought it.
Apparently they can get better deals on cars than anyone else, let them find an acceptable replacement.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-11:

If they offered you $4,500 and it will only cost $4,200 to fix, why don't they just fix it?

Posted by trmn8r on 2010-10-11:

cricko >> Yes, mileage makes all the difference. Go run it your self. At 10,000 miles, it is worth over $4000 MORE than a car with 381,000 miles.

Are you a dealer? If not, suggested retail doesn't make sense. Suggested retail includes premiums (aka dealer profit) that have nothing to do with the value of the car.

Posted by trmn8r on 2010-10-11:

Venice, an insurance company will total a car once the damage gets past something like 75-80% of the book value. I don't know why.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-11:

But wouldn't it make sense for the insurance company to just fix the car? I didn't know a company would pay out more than the cost of repairs. Or why doesn't the OP just take the $4,500 and have the car fixed himself?

Posted by cricko on 2010-10-12:

To Venice09: Once they total a vehicle you have to get a salvage title and get a $15k bond for the repairs. A big pain.
To trmn8r: Retail makes sense if I am trying to replace my vehicle where $4500 will not replace it. Run it all you want to, why should we be the losers in an accident that was not our fault? You must work for an ins. co.

Posted by bluediamond98 on 2010-10-12:

Ahhh - therein lies the problem... They do not provide replacement value. I know it doesn't seem fair. It ISN'T fair actually but it is just the way the industry works. They recompense you for the value of what was lost. Period.

Back in the 80s someone totaled my sis' '74 Chevette. It was old but it was all she had to get to work and school and it ran beautifully. She got about $1200. What could she buy with that? Not a thing. But that was the value of the vehicle and they consider it having made you "whole".

Posted by cricko on 2010-10-12:

To incrediblelee: So I guess whatever the ins. co. says is fair, is fair? I hope it doesn't but if it should happen to you bet you'll see my point of view. The value is what is lost is what is in dispute.
Still haven't answered the question, why should you lose if not your fault? I know cookies crumble.
I fail to see how you can disagree with indemnification.
Here's a link you might find enlightening. http://www.certifiedautoappraisers.com/cccarticle.html

Posted by saj80 on 2010-10-12:

cricko, you need to understand that almost everyone agrees that the process isn't fair, and many of us have been in this situation. If you can't find something in the price range the insurance company is offering, I believe you have the right to sue the other driver for the difference.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-12:

Exactly, saj. I'm sure we have all had this happen in our lives at least once. It's one of the risks of driving. If something happens, even if you're insured and not at fault, chances are it will cost you something. I doubt that anyone ever gets what they think their vehicle is worth.

Posted by cricko on 2010-10-13:

Well most of you sound like you just accept being screwed over. I don't. Appreciate the sympathy and encouragement.

Posted by bluediamond98 on 2010-10-13:

No need to be insulting cricko. I think everyone gave you their sincere advice.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-13:

Be sure to come back and let us know how you made out, cricko.

Posted by cricko on 2010-10-13:

To incrediblelee: Where's the insult ? I'm sorry, didn't mean to where ever it is.
I’ve just got to ask this question: When is the government going to stand up for the people against the insurance companies operating that use one company, CCC, to value automobile total losses ?
An analogy: Imagine for a second that the Olympic gymnastic events are being judged by one person who is getting paid to judge the events by one country. Do you think that the country who writes the check would have an unfair advantage ? Let me answer that question; certainly!
Now we know the Olympics doesn’t work this way. Judges score the athletes, high score and low score are thrown out, then the others are averaged together to get the score.
Now why can’t appraisals work that way ?
Of course there is a system of appeals.
I could get a lawyer, if I could find one that would be willing to take the case. Most of them don’t want to fool with such small potatoes. Apparently the lawyer would be entitled to one third of any settlement that was obtained, so this is simple arithmetic (provided one can work with fractions) for an insurance company.
They offer the “fair” market value according to their appraiser (CCC), which is approximately two thirds of the real market value, which most people being in a bind will feel forced to accept. Even if you get a lawyer and win in court, the insurance company will only be paying out to you the amount they should have paid you in the first place. So it’s no big deal to them because insurance companies have lawyers already.
Will the governments do anything to correct this ? I don’t know, the insurance industry lobby is pretty strong.
Should government do something to correct this ? You know the answer to that one.
The people can make the insurance companies be fair through our politicians and the voting booth. Ask those running how they feel about this. They will probably tell you anything right now.
Or before you buy a policy, ask your agent how they determine fair market value, then get them to show it to you in the policy. The insurance company will only do what the law makes them do, after all, they’re in business. I don’t want them to be out of business. I just want them to be “fair”.

Posted by lakisha j on 2010-10-13:

If the car is deemed to be totaled the insurance company has you over a barrel. A totaled car has no trade in value and will require a "salvage title".
The insurance will lowball the client so you have to fight with them to get what you think you deserve for a replacement. I learned the hard way by taking the first offer.
That being said 381,000 miles is a lot.

Good luck.

Posted by bluediamond98 on 2010-10-13:

Well most of you sound like you just accept being screwed over.

That part. Wee bit insulting.

But it's cool. I think you are just out of sorts about the situation.

Posted by Slimjim on 2010-10-13:

I see Venice said it, and maybe someone else, but they did up the offer above the price to repair the car. It therefore, is not totaled and would not be considered salvage. To me, I see them willing to cover the full cost to repair the vehicle, which is what they are suppose to do. Fix the car, and they'll pay for it. What am I missing?

Posted by lakisha j on 2010-10-13:

I could have sworn that I read "totalled" earlier. Guess I was wrong.
Does that make me out of sorts Incred?

Posted by bluediamond98 on 2010-10-13:

Lakisha? I agree with you. Don't really know what you are asking.

Posted by bluediamond98 on 2010-10-13:

Oh wait - I was quoting the OP. I wasn't saying that myself. I probably should have used quotes...lol

Posted by lakisha j on 2010-10-13:

Gotcha, Incred.
That's what I get for not thoroughly reading the thread.

Posted by cricko on 2010-10-13:

To Slimjim: To answer your question, go back to cricko 1st thread 10/12 and trmn8r 3rd thread 10/11.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-13:

Cricko says he needs a salvage title and Slim says he doesn't. Who's right? I have no idea. But since the insurance company is offering more than it will cost to fix the car, I would do whatever it takes to get it fixed. Then you will be whole again.

Posted by Skye on 2010-10-13:

It says the car was totaled in the very first paragraph. I'm not really sure what the op wants. Does he want the car repaired or does he want money for another car? I know he feels he should get money for what he put into the car, but that's not how it works. It stinks, but that's the way it is. The day before my car was stolen, I had bought new tires, winterized it, the whole works for about $1400.00, and the insurance would not take that into consideration when they paid out on my car. I also had a cream puff car, always garaged, less then 15,000 miles and the car was 8 years old. I bought it brand new, and of course we all know cars depreciate, they never appreciate.

But that's life. It's only a car.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-13:

I realize that, Skye, but then they offered the OP more than what it would cost to repair the car. That doesn't make sense to me. If the car can't be repaired for whatever reason, then no amount of money would cover the cost. So I'm assuming the car is repairable.

Posted by lakisha j on 2010-10-13:

Thank you Skye I thought I saw that earlier.
I am right.

Posted by Skye on 2010-10-13:

You know what Venice, I'm not sure what is going, but if the insurance is willing to give him the amount it will cost to repair, which is way more then the car is worth, he's one lucky guy. I felt the insurance should of also paid me more, but they explained the pay out break down, which also included in it, fair market value, so I actually did ok, according to my brother anyway.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-13:

We've had a few totaled cars, and we never got enough money from the insurance to replace them. No one ever does. The OP is on a mission to fight city hall, and if he has the time and energy to follow through, I wish him the best. But keep in mind that the car in question has almost 400,000 miles!

Posted by Skye on 2010-10-13:

I understand how the op feels, he's the victim here, so he wants everything back the way it was. I also wish him the best of luck.

Posted by cricko on 2010-10-14:

Let me see if I can help you. Nationwide wants to give me $4496 for our car and we give them the title. If we keep the car and have it fixed they are going to pay $3648. Their estimate to fix it was $4200 that doesn't mean we could get it fixed for that. They are not going to fix it period. They declared it totaled. Their estimate doesn't take into account any hidden damage that might be found once you get into making repairs. If we get chose to have it fixed a salvage title is what we would have and that requires a bond in our state.
Skye: The car is worth more to us than it is to you. Try replacing it. One owner car in excellent shape with same options, new tires, brakes, alignment, and timing belt. You can't do it for $4496, period. I've already stated the valuations from the other sources. The valuations Nationwide uses are bogus, period.

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-14:

Cricko, your car has almost 400,000 miles on it. That had to have played a major role in the decision. Did Nationwide take into consideration the new tires, etc.? Maybe that's why they raised the offer. That happened to my daughter when her car was totaled. The insurance company added an extra amount to the settlement because the car had new tires, among other things. But she still couldn't replace it for the amount of the settlement. When my car was totaled, it was worth much more to me than the insurance company was ever going to pay out. It had almost 200,000 miles but was in excellent condition. I was the only owner, and it was well maintained. I was heartbroken. Those things are meaningless to insurance companies.

Posted by PepperElf on 2010-10-14:

some advice for costs... if you chose to give them the car for the "totaled price" don't give them the brand new tires.

my parents were in a van that was totaled and also had brand new tires. they went to a junk yard and picked up some crap tires and changed them out. i believe they saved the good tires for the next vehicle (they were close enough to fit)

Posted by Venice09 on 2010-10-14:

That's good advice, Pepper. In my daughter's case, the car was towed to a local garage. We only had access long enough for her to get her belongings. It all happened very quickly. We really didn't have a chance to do anything. But the insurance company did allow for the new tires. Then they deducted $500 because there was a dent in the roof that was not caused by the accident. There is no winning.