NEW YORK, NEW YORK -- I ordered on December 1st 2013, 4 Hoodies for my sisters and mom for Christmas. I had a Fedex tracking number and was able to see where my package was. But during 2 weeks I had the same exact status saying that the expected time of delivery was N/A. I called Abercrombie to have some more information. I also called Fedex just to make sure. They guarantee I will have it before I leave to my parents' house on the 24th.
I thought it was strange that they would take 22 days to ship a small order like mine. I usually use Fedex and it takes 2 or 3 days tops! I decided to chat online with a representative and after telling me that I will have it soon, he finally told me that my package was lost for 10 days and that they couldn't send me another one because they sold out 3 of the 4 items I have ordered. Nobody ever informed me by email.
The team they have there is the most incompetent and they are not helpful at all. I asked for a complete refund and to cancel my order. I waited for an email confirmation. I received it but when I clicked the link it didn't correspond to my order. I had to call again and again to make sure I will get my money back. Worst experience ever. If I have an advise to give you, NEVER ORDER ONLINE! If you need to shop there, just go to the store. This was the first and last time I ordered online, and after this experience, also the last time I will ever enter an Abercrombie store.
I am an employee of A&F and a lot of these complaints are unwarranted. People are claiming to "know" our policies and trying to make us seem bad for adhering to our policies. One person wrote a review how a store refused to remove the security sensor because the customer didn't have a receipt. That IS our policy. They stated that there should have been an exception made because it was only one $50 polo and it was obvious it hadn't been stolen. That is not obvious.
Many people steal single items, even as cheap as $6.90. Also, it would be blatant discrimination to remove sensors for one customer because they seem to be okay, and choose to not remove another customer's sensor because the person looks suspicious. A policy is a policy no matter what and exceptions are not made for people who "look" okay.
So for a company that has already gotten in a lot of trouble for discrimination should not be expected to turn around chose to adhere to or reject policies based on what the customer looks like. The same goes for when people claim they are a "good" customer and spent over $300 last time (oh wow). You are not given special privileges. There are no "good" or "bad" customers based on how much you spend. Our policies are the same for everyone.
Secondly, it was mentioned as a "known" fact we have an electronic system that tracks every item sold. This is not true. Even if we did, it wouldn't help. Which is why there is no such thing. Let's say you have a particular red t-shirt in a size small. Every single red t-shirt of that style in size small is going to have the same SKU number. Each item does not have a different identification number so that would not even help.
Another person mentioned how a cologne was left out of the bag and we should pay to ship it to them. Mistakes happen. Even at a grocery store, someone can leave your lunch meat out of the bag but they're not going to send it to your home. We don't have any means of shipping anything out. We can ship our merchandise out to other stores and receive shipment, but only at certain times. There is no way we can send anything out, unless an associate wants to make a trip to the post office while not punched in and pay however much it costs to send someone a cologne. No one is going to want to do that and they can't be blamed for that. Mistakes happen.
Oh and someone else mentioned the associates cannot hear the customers over the music. This isn't true... We can hear everything, and that is why we talk to you and respond to what you're saying with perfect ease. Another person mentioned how they yelled at an associate and the associate should have just taken it since the customer had the right to be upset. Maybe they did have a right to be upset but that gives no one the excuse to yell at someone else.
I have been in that position before and it is not okay to yell at someone and call them names. Maybe they are having a bad day and are less than friendly, so be the bigger person and ignore it. How would you like your son or daughter to be attacked by a random stranger while working at their job? Everyone has their days, and trust me, yelling does not get you what you want - it gets everyone to think you are crazy. Being treated poorly by strangers every day gets old and tiring and frustrating. Next time you are angry, remember you are one of many angry people in the world and we as associates do not want to be the brunt of it.
We cannot look up credit card numbers or do over the phone orders, for security reasons. Most of the associates who work there are 17-20 and not interested in having a real job. Would you really trust them with your credit card information? As for damaged merchandise, worn or not, if it is a manufacturer's defect such as broken zipper or ripped along the seam, the manager should return it no matter what.
Honestly it does depend on the manager and some are just not nice people, but if you reason with them it may help. If you have the receipt and it is obviously a defect it should be exchanged as long as we have the merchandise still in stores. If it's a very old item, we really can't do anything about it unless you still have the receipt. The customer is NOT always right. In fact, they usually are not and should quit trying to act like they know everything. It's a store that sells clothing. Quit getting so worked up about everything.
NEW ALBANY, OHIO -- Gilly Hicks is the fifth brand offered from Abercrombie. I'm huge Abercrombie fan, not in the sense that I wear it all of the time, or I'm one of those Abercrombie freaks; I just like the way their clothes look and fit. Anti-Abercrombie person or not, you do need to admit that they make high quality clothes.
I recently ventured to the Gilly Hicks online store to purchase some clothes for my wife. I live in Japan, so a majority of my shopping is done via online shopping. I have been shopping online for years, problem-free, until I placed my first Gilly Hicks order. I ordered 15 items from Gilly Hicks, but I received a “cancellation e-mail” the very next day.
I immediately called, waiting around 40 minutes for someone to answer using my Skype. I have no problem with waiting on the phone and the woman who answered the phone who gave me no name or ID number was extremely polite. She couldn't help me, but directed me to the “research and resolutions” department. You can't call these guys though! I had to write them an e-mail stating that I believed that my cancellation was in error and also asking why it was cancelled.
My e-mail was returned within 24 hours and it said “If you believe that all of your information is correct, feel free to order again.” Quick and to the point, right!? No explanation, but that's okay! I did believe that my info was correct, so I ordered again and KABOOM - cancelled. I e-mailed them again asking for the specific problem. In my head, there should be no problem. I order from multiple shops every month problem-free, so what's wrong Gilly Hicks?
They again returned my e-mail within 24 hours and it said “After reviewing your account, you have been cleared to make purchases. Sorry for any inconveniences.” Okay, so I guess that I passed the test and I am in the Gilly Hicks club. I wasn't really sure why I needed an account review, but thanks anyway. I placed the same order for the third time and guess what? Cancelled, baby! Is this the Gilly Hicks initiation? I e-mailed them an e-mail asking why I was cleared and then cancelled with their “you have been cleared” e-mail attached.
Within 24 hours I get an e-mail from Abercrombie! This customer service representative even signed his name at the bottom. Abercrombie let me know that they can't ship “SALE” items overseas and that I can also have a good day. I'm glad that they let me know about this… but what if I didn't order a sales item in the first place. Are their 5 for $25 undies considered a sale? Wow, am I confused. I guess no Gilly Hicks for my wife in Japan.
Regardless of all of this, I will still buy from Abercrombie and its offspring. Great customer service. Everyone was born without a name and they even send you an e-mail after cancelling your order three times in a row to advertise their new floral summer shirts, which they will never send to you. All sarcasm aside, I do like Abercrombie and this is the first situation that I have had with them in 11 years. They are just so huge now; people come out of everywhere to slam them. It's hard to get that big and avoid the haters.
GREENVILLE, SOUTH CAROLINA -- My daughter in law purchased my son four shirts for Christmas a short time ago on 12/16. My daughter in law is eight months pregnant and due in January. Please keep this in mind as I continue with the complaint. My son saw the shirts and didn't like them and said they wouldn't fit. The tags were still on the shirts and the original receipt along with the gift boxes were still in the original bag.
My daughter in law went to the store in the mall in Greenville, SC on 12/21 and tried to return the items, of which she paid cash for the transaction. The "manager" told her the shirts smelled like "smoke" and that she couldn't return the shirts. My daughter in law is eight months pregnant and doesn't smoke, obviously. She left the store in tears, because she was out $110. She waits tables and goes to college and barely gets by, and yet can't return $110 worth of merchandise with the original tags and receipt. She left the store upset and crying over this, and again is eight months pregnant.
My son then went down to the store and tried to return the items, because my daughter in law was so upset and the manager still would not take them back for the same reason, even though my daughter in law is eight months pregnant and doesn't smoke. Again, my daughter in law is out $110 cash.
I personally smelled the shirts and they do NOT smell like smoke, but instead like cologne that the store uses and sells inside. I can't possibly imagine why the store would say the shirts smell like smoke. My daughter in law did everything per the return policy, and yet they still refused the merchandise.
I called the store and "tried" to speak to the manager and she said they could refuse a refund for any reason; that it even says this on the back of the receipt. She still refused to refund the cash my daughter in law spent in the store. I then asked her to have her district manager call me about it, and she told me that she would "try" to give her the message, but with the holiday doubted that she would get back in touch with me. I still haven't heard anything.
The shirts do NOT smell like smoke, but are drenched in the cologne from the store. My daughter in law had the original receipt and the tags WERE attached to the clothes, and they still refused her refund. We will NEVER shop A&F or Hollister ever again, because of their return policy. Their customer service is horrible, and they look for any excuse to deny your refund. We are going to try to sell the brand new shirts online somehow, and try to recoup some of the money we have lost on this.
Thanks A&F for stressing out my eight month pregnant daughter in law, and for making her cry over all of this, and for diminishing her Christmas holiday. As I said, she's a waitress and going to college so every penny counts. Hope it was worth your fat bottom line this year!
DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA -- I do not usually complain of poor shopping experiences, but today's experience at your store in NC was out of the ordinary. My daughter and I were looking at a red Alice shirt, which was hanging solo amongst a group of Alice shirts in other colors. I assumed it was the last shirt in that color and took it down for my daughter to try on. Two sales associates were standing nearby, chatting, and though they saw me take the shirt down, said nothing.
We waited for a fitting room to open. There were only four and all were occupied. Eventually we decided to come back later. I stood in line at the cash register and when my turn came, asked the sales associate to hold the shirt until we could come back in an hour. She had no problem with this and took the shirt.
An hour or so later we returned. The store was emptier and we proceeded directly to the register. A different sales associate, who we will refer to as **, was behind the register. I asked her about the shirt. She responded impatiently that "We don't hold items". I repeated that a sales associate had taken the shirt to hold. She looked below the register and immediately found the shirt. She then mumbled something about it being damaged and without further explanation disappeared through what I took to be the stockroom door.
I was surprised that the previous sales associate would have taken a damaged item to hold, especially if there was a policy against holds, and I was taken aback by **'s brusque manner and by her disappearing without any further communication.
** then returned from the stockroom and announced that she couldn't sell me the shirt because it was a damaged display item. I asked why the store would have a shirt out that it couldn't sell. She said that the shirt was only for display. I told her that I had worked in retail for years and that it was ridiculous to have a shirt out without any stock to back it up. She responded "Why are you yelling at me? Don't take your anger out on me!" I did not feel I had been yelling at her. I was frustrated and had been trying to be heard over the loud music. I told her as much.
She said "I'll let you speak to a manager." I said okay. She said "You don't have to be like that. What is your problem?" I said "Just get your manager." She continued to berate me about taking my anger out on her. In frustration I finally told her "Grow up and get your manager."
The manager who came out was calm, cool and collected as one would expect a manager to be. As I attempted to speak with him, ** stood next to us. I looked at her and said "I would like to have a private conversation," at which point the manager sent her away.
The manager explained to me that the store could not sell the shirt to me because it was for display purposes, and that chemicals had been sprayed on the garment that made it unsellable. This at least made some sense, but what doesn't make sense is that I should have to take 30 to 45 minutes out of my day, only to find out what the first sales associates should have been able to tell me immediately, and then be berated for expressing my frustration to someone who did not seem in the least concerned about my satisfaction as a customer.
Of all the places we shopped today, Abercrombie was far and away the least courteous and least helpful, not to mention simply rude. This sort of experience is not easily forgotten. I expect to be telling friends and family about it for quite some time. My daughter had lived and breathed Abercrombie and had had her heart set on that particular shirt. After witnessing what happened today, she no longer has any interest in Abercrombie products.
In future, you may want to mark your display items more clearly and advise your sales associates to watch out for people taking them down. Be sure everyone is clear as to whether your policy is or is not to allow items to be held. If it is not, clearly advertise that fact. Finally, you should advise your associates, particularly **, in basic customer courtesy. Even if I had been angry towards her, there was no call for such a confrontational response. The store manager set a good example of how to interact with a customer. Unfortunately, his staff did not.
SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA -- Last night (August 23rd) at around 9pm we were in the Valley Fair Branch of Abercrombie & Fitch in San Jose California # 10402 buying some school clothes for my daughter. IN our collection we had a pair of jeans, pair of shorts and a tank top.
I arrived at counter with items mentioned above. I laid them on high counter and the girl at counter took clothing items and laid them on lower counter. She then gave me the amount which I knew was not enough money. So I asked her if she rang in all the items. She rolled her eyes at me and said YEA. At this time I noted that the shorts were not on the back counter where the security tags are removed and still next to register. I then stated those shorts - she picked them up in huff and rang them up giving me new total with an attitude.
My 16 year old daughter was with me and I asked her to go to Hollister as I did not need her picking up attitude from a rude employee and asked for manager. She did not get manager and proceeded to take my credit card telling me machine in front did not work. She ran the card no less than 20 times back and forth, back and forth. I asked her if she wanted me to try the one on my side and she handed card back and it rang through and worked which was really the worst thing that could have happened as now she was REALLY angry. She proceeded to bag my items and "shift" manager was there by this time and I asked her if this behavior was OK with her?
I then noticed when she handed me the bag on to the HIGH counter that the shorts were still on counter. I asked for shorts and the girl did something unbelievable. She did not, as most staff is instructed, bring the bag back down and finish packing order. Instead she grabbed the shorts as if they were dirty laundry and JAMMED them into bag that was sitting on counter in front of shift manager. I looked at shift manager who was unprepared and did not even know what to say. On the way out she said "Sometimes people have a bad day"???
After discussing it with my husband I will be returning all items today and sharing my experience. In this economy customer service is key, and your company is not supplying this basic ingredient. I called store and was told I was speaking with store manager who said he had heard some of the story and that the shift manager did not tell him that the shorts were crammed into bag while it was in front of my face. I asked him to ask shift manager of this. He said it was my word against hers and if it had happened "the way" I described he was sorry about that but I was after all rude.
Yes after all was said and done and my bought items were crammed in a wad into a bag I was upset - who would not be. I was as upset that the shift manager allowed the girl to laugh about matter and tell her she would take care of me... Last shopping experience at your store and next stop is YELP and other like places so people can see your company is not interested in treating customers fairly. I am a business owner and if any of my employees spoke or treated a client that way, there would be serious retraining or reconsideration on whether that person fit the mold for my company!
WHITEPLAINS, NEW YORK -- As a concerned resident of (Yonkers, NY), I am writing about a problem of racial profiling. That occurred on December 11, 2010 at 6pm. While I was leaving your store Abercrombie & Fitch, at the Westchester mall store # 10527 one of your security officers stopped my husband & myself based solely on according to your store manager was suspicious activity.
First off he said it was store policy before anyone leaves the store. Funny thing, as he attempted to GRAB the bag from my husband's hand he asked did we have a receipt for the items we had. I asked him what the hell did he think was in my hand? All awhile a customer was walking right out the store; he did not ASK THAT CUSTOMER TO STOP!! BUT IT'S STORE POLICY??!!?? We had other bags as it is Christmas and that was not our first store. He then asked to see what was inside our other bag - as reluctant as my husband was he opened that bag as well.
Meanwhile a scene was being formed outside the store you not UNDERSTAND the embarrassment we went through? We then left dumfounded as to what happened. We went back to Abercrombie & Fitch and watched on the opposite side of the mall. NOT ONE CUSTOMER was stopped WHEN THEY LEFT THE STORE. As frustrated I became I went back to speak to the guard to ask him if it's STORE POLICY WHY DIDN'T HE STOP ANYONE ELSE. Again your store manager stated that we beeped when we left the store... I said "You are joking right?" I asked how is that possible when there are no alarm sensors at the doors.
At that moment she changed her story again and told me that one of the employees suspected suspicious activity. I said could it have been when we were waiting online for 20 minutes SPENDING $175.00 because there was only one cashier as busy as that store was? She smirked & laughed and said "LIKE I SAID ONE OF THE EMPLOYEES SUSPECTED SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY."
At this point again another scene. I then asked her for the district manager's name & information. She refused to give me the information. I said fine so I asked did the security guard work his identification and did he work for Abercrombie & Fitch or the mall? She said that "we worked for the mall." I again left because there was no answers or cooperation and truly pointless.
Since she told me the guard worked for the mall I thought let me go make a report on the guard. Again she made me like a complete idiot after waiting for a security supervisor for the mall - we came to find out that he didn't work for the mall. He worked for Abercrombie & Fitch through a different company.
The mall supervisor security guard told me to go into the other Abercrombie & Fitch and get the information I needed because clearly I couldn't get it from the original store. As aggravated as I was the store manager at that store clearly seen I was so upset & frustrated that she asked was there anything she could have done...
I told her as appreciated as I was for her offering to help there was nothing she can do. I also told her that if my daughter didn't want the coat that I bought her I would have returned it immediately without hesitation. But just know I WOULD NEVER SPEND ANOTHER PENNY IN THAT STORE EVER. After telling my daughter what happen she urged me to return the coat... Please forward my thanks again over to her.
This violated our civil rights. For unreasonable search and seizure There can't be an explanation that can justify why they both did Without probable cause. Needless to say neither one of that had a reason. This was based on hearsay, which was unfounded information - not even an apology was given! I urge you to take action now to address this problem. And unfortunately this is not THE LAST of this. I WILL be seeking legal actions!
SANTA CLARA, CALIFORNIA -- I was shopping with my younger sister in the Valley Fair Mall on Monday July 5, 2010. We were shopping for jeans for her and had gone into several stores to try on jeans including their sister store 'Hollister'. My mother and youngest sister were in the Abercrombie (store for kids) next door while we went into the Abercrombie and Fitch.
We had found some jeans for my sister to try on and set them aside while we went to get our mom so we could show her the jeans. My youngest sister was in the fitting room trying on some shirts and we all went into the fitting room with her to wait (since there were no chairs). My mom made a purchase of three tops for our youngest sister and we went back to Abercrombie and Fitch to try on the jeans for my other sister. My sister and I waited in the long line to try the one pair of jeans on.
When it was finally our turn we proceeded to go into the room and the girl who was running the fitting rooms told us only one person could enter the room. I had been going into the fitting rooms all day with my sister to help her try clothes on (as sometimes she gets confused about what is going on) including Hollister (sister store). I politely asked the girl if I could please just sit in the room with her while she tried on the pants. She told me that I couldn't.
At first I thought it may be a loss prevention policy, but my sister nor I had any bags, purses, or coats that we could conceal merchandise in and we were only taking in one item. I told her it would probably be OK with the manager. At that point the girl went to call him.
In the time that she was gone I was able to help my sister with trying on her pants on and we were already leaving the fitting room by the time the manager came. He asked "Do you want to talk to me?" I said that I was just wondering why they had such a policy in effect and it was ridiculous. He said "that's just our policy" and I continually asked him why, and he kept saying "because it is" with no clear reasoning.
I pointed out that a customer may have a disability and need assistance when trying on clothes. He said in that case they would make an exception, but it needs to be stated. I told him that not everyone wants to clearly state their disability, and in some cases (especially teens) it may be quite embarrassing to have to explain to a stranger why they would need help. The entire time he was speaking to me with his hands folded across his chest and in a very condescending tone.
When I asked for his district managers name and phone number he said he could not give that information to me. I am a retail manager myself and work for a very reputable company that believes the customer comes first. I was appalled by his actions and lack of compassion for the situation. I do not believe that it was a company policy (since he had no explanation, and we did the same thing in both of their sister stores that same day).
By the time we left the store my younger sister was in tears and said she never wanted to go back to that store again. She felt embarrassed and felt the manager was not sympathetic to her needs. This store or staff was very unfriendly, and clearly do not care about their customers or the potential lawsuits that could come out of a situation like this one. I have emailed the company and have yet to get a response. Please do not shop there if you feel you have been treated this way by any of their employees. This needs to stop and the only way will be if customers stop shopping in these stores. They will be forced to change their ways to maintain business.
LANGHORNE, PENNSYLVANIA -- My husband, son, and I visited the A&F store in Langhorne, PA today (Oxford Valley Mall). My son had received some A&F gift cards for his recent birthday, and was excited about shopping for some new clothes. We spent just about all of his gift card money - spending in excess of $300 - at the store today, for purchases including a sweatshirt, several long and short-sleeved shirts, and a $40 bottle of Colden cologne. When we arrived home and my son went through the shopping bag, we discovered that the cologne had not been placed in the bag with his other items.
After looking up the telephone number on the web (the sales receipt has a store location number, but no telephone number??), my husband called the store to tell them about the error. We did not want to have to make the trip back to the mall because of an error on the sales associate's part, and my husband asked the person to whom he was speaking if they would please (and yes, he used that word) ship us the cologne... which they did. In fact, find at the counter, and admitted should have been placed in our bag.
The person on the telephone said that they "are not able to send anything out of the store". When my husband asked to speak with a store manager, the person to whom he was speaking said that 'she' is the store manager. My husband then asked for the name and contact info for a regional manager. The A&F person told us that they cannot give that telephone number to customers, and directed us to go to the website to put in a complaint.
We did locate a phone number on the web that was described as an A&F customer service number, but when my husband called that number, he was told that there is no longer a telephone option for A&F customer service. Again, he was instructed to use the "customer service" option on A&F's website.
All we want is to speak with an actual living, breathing person, in "real time", who has some authority. We don't think that asking A&F to ship the cologne to us (and foot the bill for the shipping) is asking too much, considering that the error made was on the part of the store personnel. We have been polite and respectful, and we are well-educated (to respond to a couple of the comments on this site made by A&F employees that denigrate A&F customers, painting a majority of A&F customers as rude and self-entitled)... but we do think that good customer service is not too much to ask for.
I don't want to send an email out into the black hole of cyber-space, particularly since I suspect that - based on many comments here - I'll never receive anything but a canned response. Besides, I just checked the A&F website, and there is NO specific link to a customer service portal. The closest I could find was a link to "contact us", with only 500 characters permitted and only a small handful of "subjects"... that DON'T EVEN INCLUDE CUSTOMER SERVICE! (Sorry to yell - I just find that unbelievable!!)
I understand that A&F may have needed to trim some costs in today's economy, but perhaps trimming them from the customer service arena was not the best idea. I guess we'll wind up having to schlep back to the mall. I hope they don't give us a hard time when we go to pick up our cologne that we've been assured is "behind the counter." We have our receipt, but who knows? Given the prices that they charge for the clothes there, and the way their customer service policies seem to be (de-) evolving (this site has been an eye-opener), I'm not sure how quickly we'll be returning to A&F.
NEW ALBANY, OHIO -- I purchased a dress and some other items from Abercrombie Kids' website. After returning to the website to verify the dress color that I had ordered, I noticed that the dress went on sale. I immediately checked my receipt for the confirmed price, and toll-free customer service number (there isn't one). The company prefers that all correspondence go through e-mail. So, I e-mailed that I would like a price adjustment for the dress (plus two other items that had been purchased at full price and also had been marked down) that had been ordered and not even left the warehouse.
The correspondence I received back was "Since you've already had the opportunity to take advantage of our clearance section [there were 4 other sale items in my order] and purchase your merchandise at a marked down price, we're unable to provide any further discounts. As stated on our website, 'we only offer price adjustments for merchandise purchased at the original price." The item in question is: 289004360 purchased for $59.50. All full-priced items end in. 50 and all sale items end in. 90. I assumed that this was an oversight on ** part, and wrote back that the items in question were purchased at the full price.
There was no response. I attempted to further my e-mail correspondence to get my point clearly across, but they did not respond. Thus, I contacted the Customer Service Department via telephone. This is when I was told that because the dress was no longer available on-line that they were under no obligation to give me a price adjustment for anything in order ** (again, there were two other items on this order number still available on the website that had since been reduced).
**, the telephone representative would not let me speak to her supervisor to resolve this issue. The Customer Service Representative was not interested in investigating when I had originally e-mailed Abercrombie, nor was she interested in righting an injustice (which at this point I was assuming was an honest mistake). I had to call back and get another representative to give me the adjustment to the other two items (items to which I was entitled an adjustment -- and I still haven't received my items).
I am now accusing Abercrombie & Fitch of Bait and Switch. The customer service representatives (whether out of lack of training and faulty corporate communication -- or purposeful negligence) delayed any appropriate action on my original request until the item became unavailable and foreclosed on their policy of a fair 14 day policy/or if it is still available on the website price adjustment policy.
In all good faith attempts at communication (e-mail and telephone correspondence) the customer service representative inaction not only ignored my rights (the dress was available on the website through my first 3 e-mail attempts at communication), the corporation purposely designed the customer service system so that the contact information that would resolve the customer service issues in a timely manner isn't the most available information. Further, they prolong e-mail correspondence so that items become unavailable, and hence ineligible for a price adjustment stated in their corporate policy. This is a classic bait and switch tactic and illegal.