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Air crew forced us to violate FAA’s on-board regulations!
Posted by Jc3 on 12/22/2006
BOISE, IDAHO -- Air crew forced us to violate FAA’s on-board regulations!

12/22/06

During our recent trip back to Austin, TX, from Boise, ID, the Frontier JetExpress’ crew forced us to violate FAA’s on-board regulations, put our toddler baby in danger, and violated our right of use of a paid-for seat by forcing us to have our 2-year-old baby travel on my lap instead of on his own seat. The flight was Frontier Airlines 4272, on Mon. Dec. 18, 2006.


Since our toddler baby is over 2 years old, knowing the airlines’ requirements and the FAA’s regulations, we dutifully purchased a ticket for him for our trip to Boise, ID.
And rather than hauling around his toddler car seat with us we decided to shell out the close to $80 for CARES, the FAA-certified Child Harness Device (from www.kidsflysafe.com).

After my wife and I watched the instructional DVD and read the handy pictorial brochure (a single letter-size card folded in half, like a booklet) included with the CARES harness, we felt pretty happy with it and confidant of its function, its ease of use (it really takes less than a couple of minutes to setup), and of the safe travel it’d provide for our toddler. Then we just made sure the seat assignments we had for the 3 of us were ok to allow its use on the aircraft. We determined we were in full compliance with the usage limitations list, including not being seated in an exit row.

We completed our travel to Boise without incident, using the CARES harness on both trip segments (Austin-Denver, Denver-Boise), having our toddler securely and happily strapped in his own seat for the entire duration of both flights. We also had no problems on the last segment of our return flight, from Denver to Austin. It was truly great not having to haul around a car seat through the airports, security checkpoints, and down the narrow airplane aisles.

However, our nightmare started from the moment we got on board our return flight segment from Boise to Denver. Having been among the first to board (after a couple of people on wheelchairs), we got to our seats, 16A, 16B, and 16D (on the CRJ-700 jet, there’s no 16C seat. But there’s two seats on each side of the isle, so the remaining seat was 16E), and quickly setup the CARES. As soon as I started to set it up, the flight attendant (she was at the very rear of the aircraft, facing passengers as they boarded) told me, “You can’t use that; at least not for take-off”. To which I replied, as I completed the setup, “Oh, it’s ok, this is FAA approved”. Having verified that the harness did not affect or interfere in any way with the tray behind (it opened, closed, and locked ok), I went on to take my seat. – “I’ll have to check on that”, she said, as I proceeded to strap in our toddler. By then a few of the passengers sitting behind us were taking their seats and the flight attendant was on the phone inquiring/reporting on a “problem with a baby harness”.

A few minutes later the plane was almost full. She then headed to the front, to consult/check about the CARES, and came back to me saying “I’m sorry but you cannot use that harness”. – “Yes I can. It is FAA approved. Please read this FAA notice”, I told her as I handed her the CARES brochure, which highlights in a framed quote: “FAA APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH 14 CFR 21.305(d)”. Which is followed by “The article may be carried on board an aircraft and installed by the passenger according to amended operating rules under Title ….”.
She read it and browsed through the remainder of the brochure. – “I don’t know. I’ve never seen one of these harnesses. I’ll be back in a second”. And she headed back to the front, brochure in hand. Returning after a few minutes, she told me: “Sir, I am going to have to ask you and your toddler to move to the last row, where your toddler’s harness won’t interfere with the tray behind”. By this point I am amazed that she’s still unclear about the FAA’s usage approval and, even more, than no one at the front is clear either. So I said, “But the harness is not interfering at all”, which she checked by lowering and closing the tray back up. Plus I asked the lady sitting behind if she thought it was interfering. – “Not at all”, was her reply. Still the attendant insisted we move to the back, saying in a quite audible tone (ensuring passengers nearby would hear), “Sir, the captain has indicated he cannot start taxiing until you move to the back”. I guess she intended for me to feel pressured by implying all was ready for the plane to take off and that everybody was waiting on me. However, taking a quick glance to the back I realized that there were no seats on the right side (no seats D/E, but only A/B). Thus, moving to the back meant that our family would be separated; something neither I nor my wife wanted to do. So I said, “Please, I want to talk to the captain. I’m sorry, but the CARES is FAA approved. Plus moving back there means we’d be separated. I bought the tickets well in advance and chose these seats purposefully for us to be together”. By now I’m wondering, is the CARES approved or not? Why is it ok in the back and not here? How contradicting and confusing these people are!

She darted to the front and along come another flight attendant. He came, holding his operations manual, which was open to a pertinent section and told me “Sir, you cannot use that baby harness. So we’re asking you to please take it off and hold your baby on your lap”. Unbelievable! I was completely dumbfounded. I could not believe my ears. –“But my toddler is over 2 years old, I paid for his plane ticket, and using the CARES harness is the safest way for him to travel. Please let me speak to the captain”, I said. –“No, those harnesses aren’t allowed”, he said, as he was now browsing the CARES brochure. And the female flight attendant (the one that started off this whole thing) chimed in again, “Sorry Sir, I’ve never seen one of those. You can’t use it”. At this point, Frontier’s gate attendant, Ron*, came to join the discussion. –“It is ok. We used it a week ago on our way here without any incident; on this airline, same segment, and same aircraft. All the flight attendants were ok with it. They even served our toddler his apple juice and everything”, I told them all. But the gate agent just asked me again to comply, “Please Sir, remove the harness and hold your baby on your lap”.

By now my mind is racing, in shock with the crew’s ignorance, knowing that I was right, and trying to decide what to do. Quick thoughts were flashing: “I could stand my ground; I know I’m right. Then they’ll probably end up throwing us all out of the plane. That’ll be a huge scene, with a great deal of embarrassment. Once on the ground they’ll find out we were right, apologize, and put us on another plane. That seems like a big hassle for us, especially for the baby [who now is seating comfortably, happily browsing the plane’s safety card, and looking up once in a while to see all the people just above him]. Plus we’ll get into Austin much later, if at all, today. But after all is said and done that’ll teach them a lesson…”.

The episode having been going on for about 20 minutes, I was finding it extremely difficult to keep my composure and my leveled tone of voice. My heart is pounding like crazy. My blood pressure, through the roof. My stress level, through the roof. So is probably my sugar-level (I’m pre-diabetic). Plus my dear pregnant wife, very stressed out by now, had asked me, during the last interim we were alone to “please be nice”, with a resigned expression on her face that meant, please give in, put an end to this.

So with much reluctance I said, “We bought a ticket for our son to comply with FAA regulation. If you are not going to let him use his seat, I want you to give me a full refund for his plane ticket. I want a note from you that states so”. The gate attendant kind of wavered (about the refund part, that is) and stepped back. Then the male flight attendant stretched out his operations manual and showed me a highlighted note about baby harnesses not being allowed for take off, landing, etc. But it referred to Baby B’air’s vest in particular, which is a completely different application (used for infants only, who MUST fly on an adult lap). So I said, “That is a completely different application. Your book doesn’t say the CARES harness is not allowed. Sorry to tell you, but you are not up-to-date. This is an FAA-approved harness and the regulation is that my toddler be in his own seat”. And here came the pinnacle of this mountain of ignorance: He answered, “We are up to date. The FAA recommends it, but it is the airline’s discretion whether we allow it or not” (!). So I insisted, “You are going to refund the ticket?” At this point Ron, Frontier’s gate attendant, said, “I’ll take care of you. Please check in with Frontier’s Customer Service when you get to Denver”. And as he saw that I started to unstrap my baby, he walked off. So I packed the CARES harness, held my toddler on my lap, my wife moved to his now empty seat, everyone went their way and we started taxiing. Here we went, with 3 paid seats but only allowed to use 2. So bizarre. In fact, the nice older man seating behind my wife, who along with all the passengers around us witnessed the whole thing, kind of booed the flight attendants, seeing that they had their way with such baseless arguments. [Incidentally, our toddler had played briefly with him as we strolled around the waiting area prior to boarding].

I was so upset psychologically and drained physically from the whole episode that I ended up eating most of the snacks we packed for our toddler (saltines, graham crackers, baby carrots, etc.) during the flight. Once we landed, we decided to wait to de-plane last, so we could ask more details about our refund. As the two older couples behind us passed by, they all wished us well and good luck with our claim, sympathetic with us. As we waited immediately outside the plane, we asked the captain for a note from him of how they forced us to comply with their request, he brushed us off, saying “Sorry, it’s not up to us. Whatever we give you won’t help you much. Just check in with Frontier’s CS.”

But that’s not the end of the story. There’s more. It turns out the Customer Service Desk people couldn’t care less! By that I mean they showed not a hint of an effort or intention to make things right. I told the first guy I talked to, “Hi, I’m here to request a refund for one of my plane tickets. Did a gate attendant from Boise call you about this?”. – “No. And for that type of request you need to talk to her”, indicating another woman. Although very sympathetic and friendly, as soon as I finished asking her the same question, she handed me a business card and told me “you need to call Customer Relations. Sorry, but our hands are tied”. You’ve got to be kidding me! (I thought). What? What kind of joke is this (I was still thinking). So feeling like a completely deflated tire (really, the pitiful customer service I was getting felt like a big punch that drained any remaining air I had in me), I said, “Wow, after such serious aggravation we were just victims of, we still have to waste our time on the phone, on hold, etc”. – “Sorry. So what happened”, she said (on the plane, she meant). Then I summarized in one phrase: “they didn’t let my toddler sit on his paid-for-seat; they didn’t let me use the CARES harness on him. Plus they made me hold him on my lap, which is clearly against FAA regulation and puts him at unnecessary risk”. She was completely shocked, an expression of unbelief in her face. – “My. I don’t know what’s wrong with them. I don’t know why they did that. We all, all attendants, have gone through specific training about this new toddler harness. I’m so sorry. But give them a call”, she said pointing to the business card. “Tell them what happened. They’ll send you some forms. But you have a very strong case, so I’m sure they’ll refund you. Also send them an email to make sure they get your complaint”. That was that!

And if you think it can’t get worse, wait. It can. I called the toll-free number, repeatedly, and it was always busy! Then I tried their direct dial number (on my dime). Guess what? It rang, and rang, and rang... No answer! I mean, we’re talking about 1 P.M., on a weekday. Whatever. I decided to just post this on the web to let others beware. And I’ll post it to the FAA too. Maybe they’ll make the airline understand what the regulations are.

A distressed parent.
Jcl
* Named changed to protect privacy.
     
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Posted by Hugh_Jorgen on 2006-12-22:
For what it's worth, your flight to Boise was actually operated by Horizon Air (a subsidiary of Alaska Airlines) on behalf of Frontier. It might be worth contacting them as well, as it seems like their flight crews are the ones needing some training. Good luck.
Posted by spiderman2 on 2006-12-22:
That sounds crazy. I would not want to fly with a 2 year old on my lap!

What I'm not understanding is why didyou include this "I was so upset psychologically and drained physically from the whole episode that I ended up eating most of the snacks we packed for our toddler (saltines, graham crackers, baby carrots, etc.) during the flight" What does that matter. It kinds of makes you look silly complaining that they made you eat your kid's snacks.

I do hope you get an answer from them and at least a partial refund. Let us know.
Posted by jc3 on 2006-12-22:
To Hugh. Good point, I'll email them too. However, Frontier's gate agent was also completely involved - and in error.

To spiderman2. Regarding your question. It might sound silly, but I wanted to put it all out there, to show how affected I was (in spite of my good outward composure). And if the airline starts an inquiry, had I omitted that part, and then later try to add it, I didn't want to sound like I was adding/making things up.
Posted by familytravel on 2006-12-22:
That is awful. Flight Attendants need to be up to date with CARES! It was not right of them to deny you the right to have your toddler in the device. The flight attendants also should have been more understanding of the situation. If it was a larger aircraft, I would have asked to speak with the lead/head attendant on the plane. I would contact FAA also so you can inform them what happened. I am so sorry about the experience. I don't think I have ever flown with Frontier before, but I will certainly remember this. Merry Christmas
Posted by Shakra on 2006-12-23:
You might have a better chance of getting a reply by writing to them with all the information (keep a copy). Don't let them send you any vouchers, either. Make sure they compensate you with money. Good luck!
Posted by Bababooey on 2006-12-23:
What happened to you may have been improper, but you neglected to mention that Denver International Airport had been closed for days due to the recent snowstorm and had just resumed operations. THOUSANDS of passengers were left stranded at both Denver International Airport and airports all around the country for days, resulting in nationwide chaos! The airline was simply looking to accommodate some of those passengers traveling to Denver who had been put on standby and were waiting to travel in or out of Denver for days!

Even though I find it understandable that (under the circumstances) you were told to give up your child's seat for another passenger, you do have a right to a full cash refund from the airline for the seat which you purchased for your child. I would even say that the airline owes you additional compensation for the inconvenience which you experienced!

If I were you, I would write a letter to the CEO of the airline with a complete description of what happened to you along with a request for a full cash refund as well as additional compensation!
Posted by Anonymous on 2006-12-23:
DID YOU REPORT THEM?
Posted by yoke on 2006-12-23:
The airline had no right to make them hold the child even if he was only 2. FAA regs state any child over the age of 2 must have its own seat, which you must purchase. It should not matter that there was a storm and they were trying to get passengers on standby on the flight, that seat was never available, it was a paid seat.
Posted by jc3 on 2006-12-23:
To all recent posters. Yes, I am reporting the incident. My email to CARES' seller was forwarded to Louise Stoll, its inventor. I got a nice & understanding email from her. She's taking some action & recommended some action I should take (similar to the postings here). She also informs me that on 12/1/2006 the FAA issued an updated circular that specifically mentions the right to use CARES. Apparently it takes a huge effort to disseminate this typo of info and not all airlines catch up at the same pace. Nevertheless there was no justification for what happened to us.

To Bababooey. You've got a couple of facts plain WRONG! 1) About the snowstorm, we also watched it on TV: It all happened 2 days after we had completed travel! 2) We never gave up our toddler's seat for another passenger to use! That was not the reason it went unused throughout the entire flight.
Posted by Bababooey on 2006-12-25:

To jc3: I'm sorry if I've "got my facts wrong", but you sound like a chronic complainer and a malcontent.

With an attitude like yours, I can imagine the way that you behaved on that flight. Maybe if you would have dealt with the situation differently, you wouldn't be wasting your time and energy posting your sad story here on my3cents!

Now go get crackin' on that letter to the CEO of Frontier Airlines in order to get a refund of the cost of that ticket!
Posted by Toni I. on 2006-12-25:
Hey Bababooey: Don't be so hard on the guy! How would you like it if something like that happened to you? I hope that while passing through security on your next flight, you are picked out of the line and given a full body cavity search!

Since it is now a federal law that airline passengers must listen to the instructions and orders of flight personnel, many of these glorified waiters and waitresses are on a power trip! On the outside they're nobodies, but on a plane they're "big shots" who can push people around with impunity! Challenge their "authority", and you'll get kicked off of the plane!
Posted by jc3 on 2006-12-25:
Bababooey, you seem to be the only one with an attitude here. Your poor comprehension level will not allow you to distinguish between my setting the record straight and what you labeled as more complaining. Misinformed people like you is what brings these kinds of stories to life in the first place. Go do some reading, better yourself, culture yourself, before you might consider yourself capable of posting anything of value here or anywhere.
Posted by Bababooey on 2006-12-27:

In this post-9/11 world, if you choose to fly on a commercial passenger airline in this country, then you have to accept the fact that, right or wrong, you MUST listen to the instructions of the flight personnel!

Because of your condescending and insulting nature, I must say that you are an obnoxious jerk who should have been thrown, head first, off of that plane!

jc3, as far as I'm concerned, what happened to you couldn't have happened to a nicer person!





Posted by marcy on 2007-01-02:
We had a similar incident on JetBlue with our one year old's car seat. We had flown several legs on their airline, but on the last one, the flight attendant's behaved in a similar manner, and it was awful.

Considering that Frontier is the same line that kicked off the mother for breastfeeding her baby, I'll definitely avoid flying with them if it's an option.
Posted by jc3 on 2007-01-03:
Hello marcy. Sorry to hear about your troubles with your car seat. Yes, I agree, better try to avoid airlines with such low-ratings for customer service. So far, no word from the airline. Will keep everyone posted.
Posted by killerklown on 2007-10-29:
People SHOULD be kicked off a plane for breast feeding. Unless you do it in the bathroom, you are behaving completely inappropriately. Unless you're gonna share that tit with everyone, keep your shirt on.
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Bends-over-backwards FOR customers
Posted by Just_like_it_is on 05/01/2006
DENVER, COLORADO -- Examples of what I've seen on my numerous Frontier flights:

- offering free in-seat DirecTV for all passengers for late departures due to maintenance delays
- bringing their Ops VP, a baggage & ticketing crew, and 5 empty planes to Cancun, Mexico after Hurricane Wilma hit to retrieve their stranded customers who lived w/o power, water, and flushing toilets for a week. They brought extra magazines, Mrs. Fields cookies, and all the accouterments of home.
- you get refills on sodas
- you get friendly SMILES because they realize their livelihood depends on their travellers
- frequent flyer tix at 15k miles - and these really exist - more than just 1 per flight!
- new planes (Airbus A370 ... A380s coming)
- upper mgmt that really cares about their employees' performance & rides the planes to see their customers' and employees' in-flight experiences (I've sat next to their Flight Ops director on a DEN-PHX flight)

No, I'm not an employee, just someone who finds the whole package at Frontier very appealing, and who goes out of their way to fly them whenever possible.
     
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Posted by Sparticus on 2006-05-02:
It is nice to hear about an airline that has not sold out consumers yet. Every flight I've taken for the last year they have cut all free snacks in place of a $4-5 box snack that has a few crackers, some cheese and a cookie in it (retail value $2). Airlines should follow the lead of the set price airlines (and the only profitable airlines). This price gauging thing is getting a bit old.
Posted by Hugh_Jorgen on 2006-05-02:
FWIW, Frontier has not ordered the A380 and there is no such aircraft as an A370. They operate the A318 and A319 - all nice new aircraft with DirecTV.
Posted by Diane1962 on 2006-05-03:
I have to agree with the review on Frontier. I purchased tickets on Midwest Air in January to fly to San Francisco with my 70 year old mother. We had confirmed aisle seats across from each other but the day before we were to leave at the end of April, I discovered in a call to the airlines that we no longer had those confirmed seats and actually, we had no seats at all. The rude customer service rep just told me that the flight was very full and that I could take it up with the counter staff at the airport. I can't travel like this with my mother so, I essentially ate the cost of those tickets and repurchased on Frontier. They treated her with kid gloves and could not have been nicer. I'm very glad that we made the switch.
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Unable to get boarding pass 45 minutes prior to flight
Posted by Gothmartha on 11/09/2007
AUSTIN, TEXAS -- This is a copy of letter I am sending to Frontier CEO & VP of Customer Relations:

Hello Gentlemen.

I’m writing to you both to share my recent travel experience with Frontier Airlines. Please let me start by saying I and my family have had incredibly pleasant experiences the several times we have flown with Frontier. My husband’s family is in XX and it has been a joy to fly on your fleet. The customer services reps (the few times we have needed them) have been fantastic, the rewards program is excellent, and the flight crews are stellar. We regularly tell friends, family, colleagues, etc., about our happiness with flying with Frontier.

So, it was without hesitation that my husband and I booked our most recent flight from Austin TX to San Francisco CA with Frontier. The price was right and as I indicated above, we’ve always had nothing but positive transactions. We always start shopping early when planning a trip, so when I purchased our tickets, it was too soon to check-in online. I point this out now, because it will be important later. We also knew we would have luggage to check, so it didn’t seem to be something that would be applicable to our circumstances.

What follows is a step-by-step recounting of our outbound trip:

1) October 26, 2007 - we arrived at Austin-Bergstrom airport Frontier curb 5:35am for 6:25 am departure.
2) Husband checked in with 2 pieces of luggage at Frontier counter @ 5:40am.
3) I, parked car after waiting at curb (trapped by cab and other car for almost 5 minutes).
4) I arrived at Frontier counter to obtain boarding pass – told by counter that it was too late – 5:49am – needed to be at counter by 5:45am. Too late to print boarding pass (terminal had been “locked” by gate agent) and check luggage. At no time was my identification looked at, nor was any data entered into the counter terminal.
5) I advised my luggage had already been checked, and traveling companion Steve Nelson had already checked in and was in security line.
6) Counter agent advised that I would not be able to make it through security screen in time. At this time there were still more than 30 minutes to departure. Austin Bergstrom is not a large airport, and I’ve never had problems making it through security previously, even with long lines.
7) Counter agent advised that agent at boarding gate had closed boarding, and that flight was oversold.
8) Husband left line for security check and returned to Frontier counter to request a boarding pass for me. Request was denied.
9) Husband was still able to make it through security check points even with a CPAP in his carry on which requires a manual check by TSA. Even after all that he was able to make it to the gate and board the plane with 10 minutes left.
10) Counter agent advised me that flight was oversold and that was part of the reason they would not provide a boarding pass. By being 4 minutes late seat had been forfeited.
11) I was put on standby for 2:00 pm flight which was also oversold.
12) After checking in at 9:30am and waiting at gate, I was not able to obtain a seat on the 2 or 5 pm flight. When I inquired at the gate how stand-by passengers were prioritized the gate agent would not provide an answer, and then proceeded to lecture me about the importance of being on time for flights and that I should have checked in online to avoid this in the future. This was totally inappropriate and unexpected behavior.
13) I left the gate area, and returned to the ticket counter. There I had to purchase a ticket for the next day’s 6:25 am flight at an additional cost of $189.00. Because my luggage was already in destination, I was able to check in at that time and avoid the ticket counter the next day.
14) I was advised by counter agent (and this was later confirmed by husband) that flight I missed had 10 open seats that were the direct result of people not being able to obtain boarding passes and or make it through security checks in time.
15) Interestingly, the next day’s flight, while waiting at the gate to board the plane, I made a note of the time the same gate agent closed the flight for boarding it was 6:10 am, a full 25 minutes later than the flight boarding was closed the day before!

You may be heartened to hear that when I shared this story with others they were very surprised and disappointed that this was a Frontier flight that I was talking about. As we suspected, this is not the usual and customary behavior and experience for Frontier.

We’ve all read and heard through the media that this has been a troubled year for both the airline industry and their customers. Fuel costs, more people flying, increased security processes; they all compound and exacerbate the already stretched and stressed system. The customer experience has an average rating of failure, and Congress is looking into the passenger bill of rights.

Compared to the average US citizen, I travel quite frequently by domestic air for pleasure / holiday, sometimes up to 5 trips in a 1 year period. I have had my share of rude, unpleasant and at times downright dishonest airline behavior and treatment, and until this time, Frontier was not in that crowded and undistinguished group. I admit that I am more than a little skeptical regarding the reasoning behind this appearance of random decision regarding the times that boarding is locked, gates closed, etc. If every flight is oversold, and even 1 or 2 seats, let alone 10 as in my case are forfeited and then extorted to repurchase their ticket, I see a fantastic revenue stream there.

I’d also like to add that I and husband have individual Frontier Airline MasterCards, both with excellent credit ratings and large credit limits. Husband is so unhappy with the additional charge for the flight, and the loss of an entire day of our holiday that he contacted the customer service department for the credit cards and requested that they be closed. The customer service rep was abhorred and apologized sincerely and profusely for our unpleasant experience. She also asked to take the information regarding our experience and sent that on to her management to see if there was anything they could do to help make up for this experience. This seems to be more in line with the method of Frontier’s customer care. We agreed to wait a week to see what if anything would be the result of her effort before continuing on with our request to close the accounts.

We are requesting the return of the $189.00 charge.
     
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Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-09:
Sorry, I've got to side with the airline on this. Directly off of their website:

What time should I check in for my flight?
We don't want to see you rushed, so we recommend that you get to the airport at least two hours before your flight. With increased security, it just makes sense. We can never guarantee how long your wait will be at the airport. It depends on so many factors, including weather, time of day, day of the week, etc.

The real rehearsed answer, however, is that for domestic flights (within the U.S.) you'll need to be checked in no less than 45 minutes prior to departure. For international flights all passengers have to be checked in no less than one hour before departure.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-09:
I agree with EMT- Flights LEAVE the gate PRIOR to departure time. Departure time isn't "get there at this time and get a seat." Departure time is when the plane will be in the air.

I've only cut it close once (due to not having a car and cab being "canceled" twice for some reason) I fully expected to have to wait till the next flight.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-09:
Two hours domestic, three hours international. It has been this way since 9/11.
Posted by Principissa on 2007-11-09:
I agree with everyone here. Now that security has been tightened so much they want you there earlier. I had a flight in July at 935 A.M. I got to the airport at 5:30 A.M. and waited in the security line until almost 830 A.M. That is why they want you there so early. Had I not gotten to the airport when I did I would have missed my flight.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-09:
I guess it depends upon the Airport. I've not experienced any major delays at the security check points lately. At BMI, Reagan National and Dallas-Fort Worth it took about 15 minutes. At my home airport (OKC) I usually don't get to the airport until about 40 minutes before my flight. It takes all of about 10 minutes to get your boarding pass, go through security and make it to the gate.
Posted by Suusan B. on 2007-11-09:
Oversold flights - - Frontier MasterCard - - fuel costs - - credit rating - - number of flights per year - Congress - - passenger bill of rights - - blah, blah, blah. You cut it too close by arriving at the airport precisely 50 minutes before your flight instead of following the recommendation of two hours before departure.
Posted by killerklown on 2007-11-09:
Two hours before your flight. You ignored that direction, thus you paid the price. Next.
Posted by bargod on 2007-11-09:
What they all said. I would not dream of showing up a the airport a mere 50 minuites before a flight.
Posted by Skye on 2007-11-09:
Wow, showing up 50 minutes before a flight?? These days, you need to be at the airport at least 2-3 hours before a flight. The security check alone, can take more then an hour. We flew in August, and arrived at DIA (Denver International Airport) 3 hours before our flight was scheduled to leave.

Things have changed, and arriving 50 minutes is just not going to cut it.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-11-09:
You also have to factor in the time it takes for TSA to process and screen the luggage. The fact that you are there in time, doesn't imply that there is enough time for baggage to be handled. You were too late by a lot.
Posted by Suusan B. on 2007-11-09:
Oh - - and by the way, you might as well proceed with your threat to close your Frontier MasterCard accounts because there is no way that you deserve a refund of $189 for the ticket you had to purchase as a result of your not arriving at the airport in time. And, it appears that said Mastercard is actually issued by Juniper Bank so Frontier doesn't lose anything if you bail.
Posted by FoggyOne on 2007-11-09:
I use a small regional airport and I am at the ticket counter no less the 90 minutes ahead of my flight. You cut it close and you lost, don't blame Frontier. If you're happy with the otherwise, put your complaint on the back burner.
Posted by Sparticus on 2007-11-09:
Airlines are cracking down on this. Somewhat related, my friends arrived at the check-in machines 47 minutes before their flight. They had problems with the first machine (it went out of order) so they had to move to another check-in machine. It was now 44 minutes until their flight and the machine would not let them check luggage any more. There was a 45 minute minimum requirement. They asked for assistance, but they were told sorry you can't check bags for this flight. So they had to unpack everything and stuff it into their carry-ons and garbage bags... They then threw their luggage away and went to catch their flight since they had no time to do anything else... and the airport had done away with lockers.
Posted by Ben There on 2007-11-10:
Most airlines I know have a 45 minute cut off for domestic luggage. Your bags have to go through security behind the scenese where TSA will scan them in those big white machines. The airlines can not control how long that takes, yet you will be screaming at them if they do not arrive so they say anything after 45 minutes is not allowed to ensure that there is enough time for TSA processes. Feel free to never fly Frontier again - they have enough pax that get to the airport in time.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2007-11-10:
I always check in on line. Most airlines allow you to do that 24hrs in advance. You can drop off luggage to be checked when you arrive.
Of the airports I use, even the fastest ones, I arrive at least 1.5hrs ahead. Some I get there 3 hrs ahead (Vegas)some 1.5 hrs (Little Rock, AR)
I have to agree with the others.
Posted by rudybjr on 2009-04-25:
All this writing just defaults to, you were late!
Posted by Ryan on 2013-08-15:
I am shocked to see so many people siding with the airline. I agree fully with gothmartha. I just had a similar experience with Frontier and will never fly with them again, period. Frontier is a business. We are their paying clients. If their goal is not to meet our needs then what is their purpose? If it is entirely possible to arrive checked in and on-time at the departure gate in less than 45 minutes, then what purpose does a 45 minute check in policy serve? Perhaps I miss my flight. If that is the case, then I pay a fee and take my chances with the next one, but who is the airline to tell me they will not offer me the opportunity to redeem the product I have purchased for hundreds of dollars because they feel that I have not arrived far enough in advance? The only reason Frontier can operate with the atrocious customer service that I received and with the airline industries most prohibitive boarding standards (almost without exception, the industry standard is 30 minites if not checking bags, not 45) is because the burdensome regulations placed on air travel create a huge barrier to entry by competition. In the every day consumer marketplace, a company that despises their customers the way I feel Frontier despises me would quickly die off. It is unfortunate that acts of terror should constrain is to give up so many freedoms where air travel is concerned. It is disposable that companies like Frontier should jump at this opportunity to pin customers with so many non-negotiable fees.
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Three Different Fios Billing Employees Can't Resolve a Simple Glitch
Posted by Gardener8649 on 07/30/2013
FORT WAYNE, INDIANA -- A door to door Frontier representative offered to reduce our bill. She did by getting rid of half of the TV stations we watch! Calls to Frontier techs transferred me to billing. After a half an hour, the employee said he got it straightened out "but needed to have his supervisor" OK it. Nothing changed. Another call to another billing person, promising to resolve the problem with his supervisors OK. Nothing happened. Calls to the 1st employee's extension went unanswered. Another call, another employee who supposedly hand carried the order to a technician to fix the problem. The technician "wasn't in, but they will get the order in the morning."

I am about ready to drive to the Frontier office and ask for the head honcho who has ignored all requests for a signature so this can get resolved.
     
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PATHETIC Customer Service, Long Wait, Unreliable Service
Posted by Patitas_bonita on 07/21/2013
PRINCETON, INDIANA -- I called the 800 number on a flier advertising Frontier Internet service with Dish Network TV package. After over 2 hours on the phone, they finally had me signed up for DSL Internet service, but were unable to process my request for Dish after being put on hold and transferred many, many times.
They told me my modem would arrive in the mail in a week, and I could self install it. A week later I get a phone call from a technician who claims there is a problem with the installations in my area, and there will be a delay of a week or until the end of summer. (?)
2 weeks in, I finally receive my modem. I follow the instructions, but it will not connect. I call the customer service number (which is a harrowing wait time every time) the guy tells me he is going to send out a technician there is a problem with my lines.
As my laptop sits open after the call, I notice it advances to a new screen on its own. So I call customer service back again, and this person who answers informs me the service ticket was canceled, but he sees no reason he can't help me get it set up. A half an hour later, my Internet is up and running. So the service technician they were going to send and charge me for was unnecessary.
Not 2 days later, all of a sudden my Internet shuts off for no reason. I follow all the useless instructions, call customer service again, wait 20 minutes for a live person to answer... She informs me I will have to wait FIVE MORE DAYS for a service technician to come and repair the line that may or may not even be messed up.
I am calling as soon as I get finished typing this to sign up with another provider. This is the most horrible service experience I've ever had with any company.
     
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Abandon All Hope
Posted by Darkspawn123456789 on 07/06/2013
KEYSER, WEST VIRGINIA -- Frontier is one of those companies that know you have no allternatives and they take advantage of it. We started 3 years ago and things went downhill from day one. The internet service BARELY scratches 1.5 Mb and that's on a high note. A high note that is like a legendary once in a lifetime note. The regular speed is so low going with one of those unidentified connections you pick up is faster and they refuse to admit they even have a problem.

The service end fee is ungodly and its not worth it. If you have ANY bloody alternatives then take them. Stay away from this company.
     
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Frontier Is Terrible
Posted by Lstutts72 on 06/01/2013
Frontier is the WORST company to deal with for residential. I have worked there. Their employees are pushed to make sales, NOT customer service...its a sad sad state and I DONT blame the customers for being ticked off..
     
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Frontier really took good care of us on recent flights
Posted by Krampe.marge on 04/25/2013
DENVER, COLORADO -- We were flying from Nashville through Denver to Las Vegas in mid-April 2013. There was a blizzard forecast for the day we were flying out. Frontier noted on their website that if we were flying through Denver that day, we could change our flight w/o any fees. The agent on the phone was phenomenal. She even let us change our return date by one day also so we wouldn't lose a day of vacation. Flights out were great, ran on time, treated well. Then on the day of our return flight, it was another snowy bad weather day in Denver. Again, Frontier was phenomenal. They loaded us on the plane then the one hour delay at Denver came through and they allowed us to get off and sit in the gate area for that hour (leaving items in overhead bin). We reloaded an hour later and taxied out. Then came another one hour delay from Denver. So we sat on tarmac for close to one hour. Frontier has TV's with 25 channels on each seat back and their policy is if there's a delay you get the TV for free! So we enjoyed live TV. Then came the 2 hour delay from Denver, so they took us back to terminal gate area (didn't hold us on the plane any further) and told us to take all our belongings this time. They efficiently worked at the gate area to find other flights for those who were only changing planes in Denver. We were called up within 5 minutes and given seats on USAirways changing planes in Charlotte. No more worry about the weather in Denver!!! Also great treatment on USAir. During all this time and for the rest of our itinerary that day, Frontier kept sending me nice little email notices about the delays and about my new itinerary. When we arrived in Charlotte and I turned my phone back on, there was another reminder from Frontier about my next flight from Charlotte to Nashville with flight number and gate number. I thought that was phenomenal treatment, in this age of smart phones, to keep me posted all day. I am highly pleased with the way they took care of us and will definitely fly Frontier again if possible.
     
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Wrongfull Billing Practice
Posted by Randalllougee2000 on 03/20/2013
IDAHO -- On a calling plan that was fine until this year. Frontier started billing me late fees on my calling plan, they said they could not give me an exact monthly bill because taxes change month to month. They said the only way to correct this was to let them do their auto deduction from my bank. Well this was a flat lie. They personally changed the taxes a bit to gain a late fee.

I complained two months ago to the FCC about this practice. My phone bill is suppose to be set at a certain price every month for unlimited long distance.

Frontier knows I live in a rural area with no cell phone service. They stared this scam this year, before this my bill was set for the same amount every month.
     
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Horrible Customer Service - BEWARE
Posted by Lvthegym on 11/21/2012
DENVER, COLORADO -- To begin, this is my first experience with Frontier Airlines. About 6-weeks ago I purchased an airline ticket for my Wife and I to fly to my cousin's wedding. 7-days prior to our flight, my Grandfather suffered a heart attack. Two days later our small dog dislocated a leg while playing fetch. Unfortunately, both required 24 hour care and since I was a Groomsman in the wedding, we decided my Wife would stay behind to take care of them. I contacted Customer Service to request a refund for my Wife's ticket, given our circumstances, I didn't think this would be an issue. After speaking with two Frontier Airline's customer service reps, I was told that I would need to secure a Dr's note regarding my Grandfather. I had the Dr. complete the note and per Frontier's instructions I submitted the note to receive a refund for the ticket. I called to follow-up with Frontier to check on the status of our refund and was told that Frontier decided that our reason for cancellation was not accepted and we couldn't receive a refund. The representative first asked who's Grandfather it was, I explained since we were married, it was both of ours. She then said (and I quote), "he would need to die to receive a refund." I was speechless, I couldn't believe the insensitivity of the representative They said their is nothing they could do.

I posted my story on their Facebook page, hoping to receive some help. I received a response to my post with-in hours, asking me to email them the details. I emailed them the details with-in the day and after following up twice, I finally received a response two-weeks later stating they looked into my account and saw I flew this past weekend and therefore my Wife would have a 1-year credit, minus $100 change fee and $30 fee booking fee. Seriously?!? Why would I ever want to fly on Frontier again?

This has been a HUGE PITA during a tragic and stressful time in our lives. I would caution all to stay away from Frontier Airlines - they're horrible! I've filed a dispute with AMEX and I hope they will help this issue right.
     
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