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NorthWest Airlines; downgraded from business class
Posted by Srtfreebee on 02/24/2004
This was a round trip, business class fare, from the US to Singapore and back.

In arriving at Singapore airport for my return flight to the US I am informed by security (before talking to NWA) that I do not have a seat on the flight to Tokyo, nor on the one from Tokyo back to the US.

Held at the security check-point while security go to check with NWA, they come back and inform me that my reservation has been cancelled since I had not made my flight on January 15, which was not the case. I actually arrived in Singapore around 0130 that day, so something was not "right" in the NWA system. Security followed me through to the NWA counter, and I found out that my seat 2C had been given to someone else. I was offered a coach seat on the 6 hour flight to Tokyo.

Back in the US, I started calling NWA, and nobody could explain how I had been "dropped". Never heard mention of me not making my flight to Singapore from anyone. I had a less than pleasant discussion with the refunds department. The person I reached immediately came across as unfriendly, and with an "Attitude". I do not accept being talked down to, especially when being in the role of a customer, so made for a very unpleasant conversation. I complained about this (too) to their Customer Relations department; for which they apologized and compensated me with frequent flier miles.

I have now received a $100 refund from NWA for having been downgraded from business to coach class on the 6-hour long leg of a $5,000+ round trip ticket. This seems like a very good proposition for NWA, - less so for me. While the pricing "is more complicated than this", and I did not bother to check days of the week etc:

A round trip business class fare Singapore - Tokyo: $1,562
A round trip coach class fare Singapore - Tokyo: $572,89
The difference is $990; or $495 each way. I received $100.

This would be a lucrative way to operate; every so often shift people with existing business class tickets to the "back", compensate them by a minimal amount, for then to bring someone else in to buy the seat that the original customer (now in coach) already had bought...

I would like to think this was "a fluke", but I personally would not be surprised if this is based on risk-cost-benefit analysis. Will the passenger that was downgraded be upset enough to not come back or is he sufficiently hooked on frequent flyer miles?
This refund was a transaction that should have been automatic - and should have come out in my favor rather than NWA's. NWA have had their chances, and I am not pursuing this any further with them directly.

Will be interested to hear if this has happened to others.

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Posted by themayor23 on 2004-05-15:
Must be something missing. To be involuntarily downgraded to coach from WBC, there has got to be an explanation. A refund is due this passenger if he purchased a business class seat. Was the upgrade purchased or exchanged for FF miles? I would suggest the writer post this information on www.flyertalk.com in the Northwest forum. I believe lots of attention would be given to this incident, since NWA monitors the traffic on that bulletin board.
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1-2-3-Free Tickets - FRAUD ALERT
Posted by KMeintsma on 02/24/2005
MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA -- IN the fall of 2004, NWA offered high revenue frequent fliers an incentive to purchase full priced round trip tickets. The offer, entitled, 1-2-3-Free, promised to award a free domestic round trip ticket to all who purchased four full price tickets during the promotion period. Rules were provided, with a tag line that should have tipped us all off to the pending FRAUD about to be committed by our monster monopoly local airline; the term said "other restrictions may apply". Once the award tickets were earned, those who earned them learned that the tickets are NOT TRANSFERABLE so parents may not use the tickets to take children on flights with them despite the historical transferablity of other frequent flyer awards. This rule was not in effect when Northwest enticed their important frequent flyer base to purchase full priced tickets to earn the awards - a clear case of BAIT AND SWITCH! In addition - the percentage of flight segments with available seats makes the use of these free tickets nearly impossible. Northwest clearly had no intention of redeeming the free travel vouchers and will not respond to consumer complaints about this fraudulent program designed to entice customers into paying higher prices with the promise of award travel. Is anyone out there an attorney? this may be a very easy to prove and win class action suit. NWA clearly mislead the high revenue business travelers it counts on to pay its bills. Comments welcome!
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Posted by Mkfirefly on 12/16/2012
JAMESTOWN ND, NORTH DAKOTA -- Women beware and men too! Northwest Tire in Jamestown ND will put unnecessary parts on your auto, overcharge you and don't fix the problem. Instead, when you take the auto back, they will tell you that you had 2 problems at same time and will try to get another $700.00 out of you. This is what happened to me.

I didn't have any problems with my car until I had my oil changed at their shop. I took my car in for a small oil leak and almost $700.00 later they never even got close to fixing the problem. Instead, they told me it was another problem and wanted another $700.00. I knew this was BS, so I took my car to another auto shop. They tightened a bolt and said when they changed the oil they didn't tighten the bolt and cleaned oil off and I have had on leaks since!!!!! Guess who changed oil on the car, Northwest Tire !!!!
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Northwest Kansas Technical College NWKTC (SCAM)
Posted by Mushung on 10/20/2012
GOODLAND, KANSAS -- First off its very hard to get in touch with anyone at this school. I finally did get a hold of Reina [snip] and she told me how great this school was so I decided to sign up, per our conversation I needed a Mac Book, iPad, and books which she said they supplied. I waited 2 weeks for my stuff to come. I decided to call and after numerous messages and emails for over a week I finally got in touch with her. She then told me financial aid won't pay for that, you have to and I should have been prepared. M,ind you she told me she was sending this out and started my classes. I never heard anything on my financial aid so I decided to call because I'm failing my 3 classes that she started me in. A month of non stop emails and phone calls and not one return call or email from this school. I had to talk to people higher up and they finally made Reina [snip] get a hold of me. She was upset when she talked to me like I'm the biggest hassle. She told me she would find out about my financial aid, and back to not being able to get a hold of anyone at the school. I want to switch colleges as I told her but they have my financial aid held up so I can't transfer schools. My loans are going into default because of this school. They basically took my money and left me hanging. Nobody will help me I wish I could sue this school for everything they have put me through. They are ruining my education and they see nothing wrong with anything they are doing. There is way more they did to me but there's only so much I can type. Test this school for yourself and you will see what I mean. I've been in a bad mood for months.

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Posted by Alain on 2012-10-21:
Since Northwest Kansas Technical College is a public institution, it is overseen by the Kansas Board of Regents and problems such as you are facing should be reported to them via http://www.kansasregents.org or by notifying their office (1000 SW Jackson Street, Ste. 520, Topeka, KS 66612-1368) at [785] 296-3421. Be sure and write down/keep any documentation about what you were told, who you have dealt with, and any other specific information about this situation so you can explain to them exactly what has happened to you.
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Poor Quality, Poor Service
Posted by Morrene2000 on 07/02/2012
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON -- Northwest Shower Door installed a frameless glass shower enclosure in our home. The glass door was very bowed. They sent out the same installer to fix the problem. His solution was to insert two additional rubber gaskets between one hinge and the glass. When this was done, the door appeared less bowed but was still not straight. Furthermore, the hinge with the extra gaskets now looks wrong - the spacing is different from the other hinge and there is a visibly thick black edge of material showing at the edges of the hinge.

When we told Northwest Shower Door that we weren't happy with their solution, the owner of the business came to our house. He told me that if they had the manufacturer re-temper the glass it might get scratched in transit; if they made a new door, there was a good chance it wouldn't come out any better the second time. Instead of taking responsibility for fixing the problem, he just kept asking what we wanted him to do. I said we wanted him to fix things in a way we were satisfied with. I left the room for a minute, and when I returned he had left without settling anything.

I emailed the owner (Mr. [snip]) expressing surprise that he left in the middle of our conversation. I asked whether he intended to do anything further to address the issues we had raised, but he never responded. Later, in response to an inquiry from our credit card company, he wrote "she told him he should solve the problem. Which he did, and then he left after the conversation." That is not what happened.

Northwest Shower Door installed a faulty product and did not solve the problem in an acceptable manner. Mr.[snip] exacerbated the situation by his rudeness, then offered an inaccurate account of what transpired.
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Posted by trmn8r on 2012-07-02:
The owner made two excuses instead of coming up with a plan that might leave you satified.

I would opt for either of the solutions he suggested, and tell him you will be satisfied when you have a door that is square and not bowed. What a chowderhead.

This company in *not* BBB accredited. That may work to your advantage in filing a complaint - a non accredited company has not paid off the BBB for a fake A+ rating, a practice that is truly despicable.

From the looks of Northwest Shower Door's website, you might assume they will stay and perform favors for you in the dark of night - yet they appear to have totally failed to attempt to satisfy you. FAIL.
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Northwest Is the Very Worst
Posted by Ww48 on 05/29/2012
This isn't quite recent but bear with me. A few years back I went cross-country on Northwest and this was the first time I've ever flew. Halfway across the flight, I asked for some coffee. The flight attendant glared at me and look at me like I was Garbage! (I never did get any coffee) then I was struggling with my luggage told me to get my act together! Is this the proffessional service they are supposed to show their customers!? I tried calling their so-called customer service was put on hold for over an hour then hung up on!! The only way to get even is to tell people NEVER FLY NORTHWEST!!! I HOPE THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!!
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Posted by Ben There on 2012-05-29:
The Northwest Airlines brand has been gone for over 2 years as they merged with Delta in early 2010. No one will every fly with Northwest Airlines again.
Posted by trmn8r on 2012-05-29:
The Northwest name was retired permanently in January of 2010.

Maybe you ran into some employees who were miserable because they were going to lose their jobs, or something else.
Posted by ww48 on 2012-05-29:
If Northwest is out of business, the why are their ads still on the web pages?
Posted by ww48 on 2012-05-29:
With all due respect, if they were miserable because they were losing their jobs or something else, does that give them the right to treat people like garbage!? If it's true I wonder why the airline went out of business? Being rude to people does'nt help your businss.
Posted by Ben There on 2012-05-29:
Most of their employees did not lose their jobs... they just work for Delta. All the old NW planes, airports, and routes are still there, just with a Delta logo on them now.

As for Northwest ads for webpages, I have not seen any in a long time.
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Cats on flight
Posted by Grannyjo on 02/26/2010
77 W WACKER DR, CHICAGO, IL 60601, MINNESOTA -- I have not flown Northwest airles for some time and I had the unfortunate experience flying back from Virginia Beach, VA to Chicago, IL. On this flight was a very quiet, well behaved little terrior dog and two (I think) very noisy cats that meowed all during the two hour and twenty-six minute flight. My daughter (an adult) asked for ear plugs and the airline steward said he had none. I asked him if, when traveling with pets, the animals were to be given a sedative to help them adjust to the flight and he said he didn't know (or did not care). These cats were two rows behind us and this was definitely the flight from HELL. Those cats were very disruptive to the flight. After we arrived in Chicago, other passengers were complaining about the cats also. One man sitting next to me said he had traveled with his dog in the past and YES, they are to be given a sedative to relax and quiet down the animals. How can an airline allow one passenget to bring these cats on the flight and disrupt the whole flight for the other passengers. I will certainly try to not to travel this airline in the future. Very inconsiderate to the needs of others.
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Posted by klobbersaurus685 on 2010-02-26:
The cats could have been a service pet. There are people who suffer from severe anxiety who use the animails to help them calm down.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
OP, I always travel with several sets of earplugs. I recommend that you pick some up next time you are at the store.

They have been keeping me sane for years.

Posted by Hugh_Jorgen on 2010-02-26:
Well, since Northwest Airlines quit existing about a month ago, you won't ever have to worry about flying them again.

But don't be surprised when you have the same problem on another airline. There is no requirement that animals have to be sedated for travel and just like traveling with small children, it's up to the passenger to keep them well behaved.

What did you realistically expect them to do? Divert the flight and kick them off? Euthanize the cats? Lock them in the lavatory?
Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-02-26:
The ADA does not recognize "comfort animals" as service animals except for a narrow channel of psychiatric problem ie ptsd. Service pet or not, if being taken out in public, they should be trained well enough to behave and keep quite.
Posted by klobbersaurus685 on 2010-02-26:
Comfort Animals are not always professionally trained such as seeing eye dogs or the like. A comfort animal can simply be someones cat that they have had for years. With proper documentation there is never a problem flying or bringing the animal places.
I am speaking as a person who flys with my father inlaw who has a cat that travels with him. All we need is the documents from his Dr. citing that it is needed. Easy.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-02-26:
Klobber, respectfully, you are missing the point of behavior. ANY animal taken out in the public, should be properly trained to behave, it doesn't have to be professionally done. If you are going to keep an animal, it is your responsibility to take care of it.
My dog (hearing assist) behaves and listens better than most children I know and a quite a few of the adults. I usually don't carry him with me everywhere simply because of his size (@150 lbs).
Posted by Ben There on 2010-02-26:
Just like drunks, kids and babies, an airline has no idea how an animal is going to react in the air.

Also, Northwest (now Delta) did not fly from Virginia Beach/Norfolk to Chicago - their hub is Detroit. This two hour and twenty-six minute flight was either on United who does fly that route nonstop, or you flew to Detroit.
Posted by bargod on 2010-02-26:
Did they not have headsets? so you could listen to some music or something. It's unfortunate what you went through but, Ive been on flights with crying babies or noisy children. Should they be sedated too? Next time pack an ipod.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
Pets don't belong in the cabin, plain and simple. If you can't take a vacation without your little boo-boo kitty, then crate them properly and put them in the hold. Just because you are lucky enough to own the most precious little snookums in the world, doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to be subjected to them.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
Fly Southwest. They don't allow animals to fly
Posted by saj80 on 2010-02-26:
Ken, best answer!
Posted by bargod on 2010-02-26:
Excactly, Ken. Also what about the people with alergies? If they don't allow peanuts on board the they shouldn't allow pets.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-02-26:
personally a meowing cat wouldn't bother me much. if it did then i'd use my headsets to drown it out.

but that's because after living on a navy ship there's a lot of noise you learn to tolerate.
like sleeping when they're practically landing jets in your face (berthing is right below the flight deck on my last ship)

and cats... well hell a cat doesn't know any better.
that too would allow me to ignore the sounds it makes.

hell i'd have taken a screaming cat over the neighbors at my old apartment complex any day. they were noisy and knew better. they just didn't care
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
The pilot actually has the final say on whether or not a pet will fly (unless it is a service animal). If a passenger speaks up and says they have allergies, the pilot will most likely not allow the pet to fly. When a passenger books their pet, it is never a guarantee that the animal will actually fly. And most airlines limit the amount of pets that will fly on each aircraft. For US Airways, I think it was 3 pets in coach, 1 in first class
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
You got where you supposed to go, didn't you? Charter your own flight if you can't deal with your fellow American's.
Posted by bargod on 2010-02-26:
The cats ears were probably bothering it, they should have just givin it some gum.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
I agree with Ken. Pets don't belong in the cabin.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-02-26:
or some ear drops perhaps. that could have been a kindness to the animal at least
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
Don't they put cats pets in the cargo area?
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-02-26:
they can, but it has to be pressurized cargo. it also cannot fall outside of a specific range of temperatures during the flight since the animals are outside for a period of time.

i ran into that issue when i sent my cat home (i was going on deployment). The temperature was too hot on most of the days. I finally got kitty out when they realized the airport that was reporting the "too hot" temp wasn't going to be that hot until after my cat had left that airport.

so the safest place for them really is in the cabin where you're usually guaranteed better temperatures and the animal won't be sitting on the tarmac for any period of time.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
My have times changed.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
I love my cats like they are my children, heck, they ARE my children. When I went to London and Paris in 2005, they stayed with Grandpa and had a wonderful time. People have to have better sense than to subject an animal they claim to love to traveling like that. Animals aren't cargo, and they aren't people. It's not fun for the animal, no matter how you try to humanize them.
Posted by CrazyRedHead on 2010-02-26:
I would rather put up with a meowing cat than a bunch of unruly children.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
Very well said Sherdy.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-02-26:
They should be in the hold too, CRH
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-02-26:
lol same here CRH.

with one exception... at the old apartment the crying baby was not an annoyance cos it was simply a baby. the other noisy apartments full of people who knew better however... yeah
Posted by merope on 2010-02-27:
Kenpopcorn--I wish the same went for kids.
Posted by drugdoc121 on 2010-03-15:
Sometimes animals fly not because "snookums" as one person sarcastically said need to go on vacation, but their owners are moving cross country. I have done twice and while I sedated and put my cats AND dog in the hold, I do not suppose to know that being in the hold is suitable for ALL animals. I try not to judge and show some tolerance. I bet it wasn't a pleasant trip for the owners either.
Posted by azspots on 2010-04-01:
Southwest just recently started allowing animals.
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Spend your hard earned money on an airline that actually deserves your business
Posted by Yo40 on 01/20/2010
I thought I got a great deal on my flight from LAX to ICN (South Korea) on Northwest, a part of Delta Airlines. Little did I know, the service quality was going to be so horrible. If you're in economy, forget about asking for anything beyond what they give you. More than half the flight attendants were rude and don't realize that the money we pay for our plane tickets helps pay their salaries. They should reconsider their profession in customer service.. they're doing a bad job representing Northwest/Delta. We were on flight 302 from Tokyo to LAX.. there was an older Japanese female flight attendant with bleached blond hair with more attitude than I've seen in all flight attendants put together.. although she was friendly towards and joking around with the males on the staff. The worst one of them all was a young Asian male with long spiky hair. The only pleasant flight attendant was a nice, elderly American gentleman who had trouble hearing.
We pressed the FA button to ask for some water b/c we were sitting next to an aisle sitter who had fallen asleep and we didn't want to disturb him by getting up and asking for water, the rude Japanese flight attendant came and gave us water with some attitude on the side. While my bf was waiting for the bathroom, he saw the water pitcher on the cart and poured some into his cup. The young Asian male FA immediately stopped him and told him that was only for business class passengers and that we needed to ask for water. Maybe if asking for something was met with a little less attitude, we would want to talk to the FA's. When did water become for business class passengers only? With all the recent and upcoming layoffs, I'm thinking Northwest/Delta needs to reconsider employing people who make their company look bad. I know we will never fly Northwest/Delta again, and we will make sure we tell others about our recent, horrible experiences.

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Posted by waterbury01 on 2010-01-20:
Yo40, welcome to the wonderful world of DELTA. I would write to the customer care desk at Delta with the names and actions of these people. They probably won't get fired but they may get reprimanded, which may change their attitudes on future flights.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-20:
Sorry waterbury...NW f/a's have had attitude problems long before DL came around. NWA international flights are a high seniority cabin crew, normally. Other than an interpreter, most of the f/a's are just putting in their time waiting to retire. Now the NRT/ICN and really all interport flights within Asia are generally Asian based (usually the country you're flying to) f/a's and the service is top notch.

Sorry for your bad experience but use of names is not necessary, in fact, not allowed here. Hopefully it'll be snipped.
Posted by shameonyou on 2010-01-20:
The first part of your review just makes you sound like a demanding passenger with unreasonable expectations. The money that you pay Delta that pays the attendants' salary comes back to pay your salary when they frequent where you work, or pay taxes if you're a public servant. Saying something like that is going to ensure your letter is filed in the recycle bin after the reader finishes the first paragraph.

That being said, being given attitude over water is unacceptable. There are a lot of websites that give advice on how to write an effective complaint letter. I'd suggest you peruse those before sending anything in.
Posted by waterbury01 on 2010-01-20:
See that is what I was basising my experience with NW on. Flew from NRT to MNL using NW all the time and never had a problem.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-01-20:
ignoring all of the comments about them being "rude" without clarification, it seems to boil down to the fact that the man you were traveling with helped himself to their cart

Personally you might not see any issue with this but I do.
Passengers should NOT be helping themselves to the cart - especially to the water pitcher

1) They don't know where his hands have been and there are sanitation rules for handing food
2) He could have also slipped in some poison

granted i'm sure he didn't slip in poison but in this day and age you really have to think about what you do on an airline because something as "innocent" as taking the water pitcher on the cart could end up being the next plot.

but yes like the rest of the coach passengers you don't have free reign over the cart
this is nothing new
Posted by shameonyou on 2010-01-20:
Pepper, I must respectfully disagree. If it's a health or security risk, then the FA should have replied with something along those lines - not that the water was for business class passengers.

It's not like he was helping himself to the premium snacks or meals. I doubt business class has special water, especially if that water is in a pitcher and not a bottle.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-20:
All drinking water on flights comes from a bottle. The potable water (water fromt the tap) is used only for rinsing and washing hands. I wouldn't drink that if you paid me.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-01-20:
he still shouldn't be helping himself to the cart. i have NEVER seen ANY passenger just help himself to the cart for anything.
perhaps that's something to keep in mind

and just because it's not something the flight attendant mentioned it's still something to consider

plus, they filled up the water in order to make rounds for business class - most likely they want to have enough that they don't need to take multiple trips.

but if the coach people just start helping themselves to anything they want, that won't happen
Posted by shameonyou on 2010-01-20:
Judge - I didn't know that. I was wondering if it really came from the tap. That explains the attitude. Maybe he was helping himself to the Evian when he was destined for the Aquafina.

Pepper - I'm not saying he wasn't being rude or inconsiderate by just going up to the cart. I still think that the flight attendant did a piss-poor job if all he said is that the water was for business class. Whatever his concerns were, he could have respectfully communicated them without making a coach passenger feel less than. They didn't pay as much, but they did pay something, and now Delta has lost a customer because they were offended. I'm not trying to be argumentative though. Like I said, the overall tone of the post reads like a self-centered person with unreasonable demands.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-01-20:
what else are they suppose to tell the passenger "keep your hands off the cart"?
i somehow suspect that no matter what was said the passenger would have been offended

that passenger paid the same amount as every other passenger in coach
that price tag doesn't include the right to just grab whatever you want from the cart.

as i said before, all the other coach passengers don't have trouble with that. why is he suddenly special?

and yes the tap water is undrinkable on the plane. in the bathroom the signs do specify this
Posted by shameonyou on 2010-01-20:
Pepper = I have no desire to argue. I think we agree that the OP would have been offended no matter how the FA phrased himself. The fact is neither one of us know exactly what happened, and my assertion that the FA could have been more tactful is just like your belief he did his job properly: opinion. I guess I'm giving more credence to the recounting of the situation than you are, and again, given the very first paragraph, I understand your skepticism.
Posted by PepperElf on 2010-01-20:
very true. the statement of everyone being rude is very vague, so there's no way to tell what they were really like
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-20:
Lots of references to race... Unclear to me what race or appearance has to do with it but to correct your presumption on one point. "Ma" is a common Chinese surname not Japanese.
In the era of buy on board and cash purchased alcohol no flight attendant wants anyone touching their cart. The cart and contents are the f/a's responsibility.
A typical coach passenger contributes little to the bottom line on a NRT bound flight... about 80% comes from cargo in the belly and the passengers with the cool amenity kits. Thanks to low cost carriers, Y class air travel has been dragged down to a cheap commodity.
On water: individual bottled stuff up front, bulk in a party cup in the back.

Posted by Anonymous on 2010-01-20:
If I saw a passenger touch things on cart off of which I was to be served, I would have been angry. I think it was very presumptuous of him to do so and I'm glad the attendant said something about it. About "the money we pay for our plane tickets pays their salaries" type of comments: Unless the OP is signing the paycheck, the attendant doesn't personally work for him. Yes, ticket sales play into that, but that mentality reeks with the "you work for me so I can say and do what I want" crap, aka, sense of entitlement. What ever happened to, "May I please have some water?" and then waiting to be served? I just shake my head.
Posted by Yo40 on 2010-01-21:
I like this website b/c it allows you to see things from another person's perspective. Yes, I agree when you say that his hands may have been dirty; therefore, there are health code violations against guests helping themselves. I totally understand this and am very glad that it's in place; however, that wasn't the message that was conveyed to us. Had that been the case, we would have apologized and never done it again. There's a way to communicate things to guests/customers and people who know how should be in the customer service industry.
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Stolen Camera
Posted by Phalkyn on 12/24/2009
I am entering this review since it was my property stolen, though another person on the flight.

I had loaned my roomate my camera for her trip to Louisiana to see her family for Christmas. She had packed everything in one backpack so she could carry it on and it would be safe. Apparently not. At the gate, they took the backpack from her, telling her the plane was too small, she -had- to check the bag. Lo and behold, on arrival to Baton Rouge, the bag is missing.

Two days later, when the bag is found and returned to her, everything is in it, except for my Kodak C1013.

The camera was a gift from Christmas the year before, and I am unable to get a receipt for it. Without proof of ownership, I doubt I will get any reimbursement for the theft, though we are attempting filing anyways.

Heads up, Northwest = thieves.
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Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-24:
Well, this one can't be blamed on the TSA agents. Unfortunately you are correct, without proof they will not reimburse you.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-24:
Was she a really good, trustworthy friend? Really.

Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-24:
See, that's the annoying part. Someone KNEW better than to check expensive items, was forced to do so, then the item POOFED. How exactly is that the Op or the travelers fault? they TRIED to do everything right.
Posted by Ben There on 2009-12-24:
I recommend to all to fly with a briefcase or purse-sized bag. I have a small laptop bag that can fit my keys, computer, iPod, meds and camera. It fits under the seat in front of me and in the tiny overheads on regional jets so I never have to gate check it.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-24:
Strictly the airline doesn't owe you anything. Your roomate owes you the return of the camera which was lost while in her care. She can make a claim against the airline. If she packed everything in the backpack was it over the limit for carry-ons? Anyway, if her carry on was within the spec and she was still made to gate check it because of the small aircraft, that's the airline's problem. The airline having taken her carry on from her has to pay her for it. Let them explain why it took them two days for her carry on to reach her. That's enough opportunity for their baggage handlers to open it and take out the camera. She gate checked it because she had to, and now she can claim up to $3,300 for the bag. I'm sure the value of the camera falls under that. She doesn't have to provide a receipt. The airline can't demand to see a receipt for everything, especially gifts. That's a ploy airlines use to refuse claims. No one has receipts for everything they own. Yet if I destroy or take your property, I can't escape because you don't have a receipt. The proof is your word and your friend's word, also the person who gave you the gift. That person must know the value.

If the airline doesn't compensate you, your friend can take it to small claims court. You can get info on the Maine court website. Once you can convince a small claims Judge, the airline has to compensate you up to the $3,300 limit. Ask your friend to try hard and remember if she didn't also have some valuable items in the bag such as expensive perfumes that also went missing. I'm not suggesting she makes up things, just try to remember!
Posted by Ben There on 2009-12-24:
Northwest Airlink (like all regional carriers) does not allow the same carry on sizes as Northwest Airlines - this information is spelled out on its website. Unlike gate checking a bag on a mainline aircraft, bags gate checked on regional flights are returned on the jetbridge instead of sent to the carousel.

Northwest will cover your values up to $3300, but this does not include electronics: http://www.nwa.com/travel/luggage/delayed.html#liability
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-24:
Ben There, the airline took it from passenger. She did not check it voluntarily. They are responsible for everything in the bag. If it was supposed to be returned to the jetbridge and it was not, all the more reason to think it was a baggage handler who deliberately secreted it somewhere until he could remove the camera and then returned it to the passenger. If Northwest wants to hire thieves to work as baggage handlers, then they must compensate the passenger.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-24:
To the OP, here is something I thought of in making a small claims court claim., but you have to check to see if your small claims court allows what is called the Third Party procedure (in some jurisdictions called the Ancillary Defendant procedure). You file a claim against your room mate claiming loss of the camera. She will name Northwest as a Third Party (or Ancillary Defendant) to your claim. You will give evidence that you lent this hardly used camera that you got as a gift that was worth $2,000 or whatever value you think reasonable. In court your roommate Defendant will admit that you lent her the camera and that it was in almost brand new in mint condition, and she had it in her carry on bag that was within spec. She will say that she packed this camera along with clothes and valuables, expecting to be able to keep it with her. When she checked in she showed the agent the carry on and asked if she would be allowed the carry it on board, and the agent said, "Sure no problem". Then as she was about to enter the aircraft, a burly mean looking Northwest agent demanded that she hand over the carry on. She protested, "But I have some valuables in here. At least let me get them out" The agent said roughly, "No time for that Miss. Your bag is safe with us, and he grabbed the bag out of her hand."

This is a good point in her evidence to start crying.

Then when she got off the aircraft, she asked for her bag and waited and waited. The agents told her they had no more bags to bring to the jetbridge, so she should look for it at the carousel in baggage claim. At the carousel she waited until all the bags had come off the aircraft from that flight, but hers wasn't there. She went to the agents and reported the loss. She told the agents, "What am I going to do? My friend's expensive camera was in the bag"

This is a good point again to let the Judge see her crying.

Then one of the agents told her, "Sorry about this, but we have had many incidents of theft here. Some of these baggage handlers were caught red handed, but the airline keeps them on." [By the way, that does not infringe the rule against hearsay. That's original evidence of what she was told by Northwest's representatives at the time]

She got her bag two days later minus the camera.

Northwest is not going to send anyone to defend the case. Their insurers will issue the check to you.

Best of luck and Merry Christmas.
Posted by goduke on 2009-12-25:
Make a video about it and put it on You Tube. Worked for the guy with the guitar.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2009-12-25:
+10 goduke
Posted by Ben There on 2009-12-25:
Wow James236, you sure know how to "work" a small claims court. You are suggesting that she "remember" other "expensive" items that were in the bag to add to the claim. You are also coaching her to lie... The OP never mentioned that the friend or any of the gate agents said any of these things, yet you suggest to say all these things in court: http://www.my3cents.com/showComment.cgi?cid=577404 . You also think she should cry for the judge - I guess small claims court judges really are stupid.

It is stories like this that make so many people not bother with small claims courts... Too many fraudsters, scammers, liers combined with judges that are moved by crying girls instead of laws and contract. Just look at all the Court TV shows - a showcase for ignorant and trashy people that could not make it on Jerry Springer. Sure it is easy money to sue a big company that probably won't show up and make up stories since they won't be there, but many don't think that is ethical. It makes you no better than the individual that stole the OPs camera.
Posted by Ben There on 2009-12-25:
Also, the airline did not take the bag from her... she brought a bag that was to big to be carry on. How is that the airlines fault? Just because you assume something will fit, or your bag has fits on another plane before does not mean that it is true for every plane.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-25:
James326, its one thing to violate the spirit of law but to advocate embellishing/lying in court....classy.

Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-25:
Ben There and VF-213, I do not advocate anyone lying to a court. My description of what will happen in Court is an example of how the evidence should go. I was not there and do not know who said what. But the passenger knows, and I trust she will truthfully set out her case if she does decide to take it to court if the airline doesn't pay for the camera. In my first post when I suggested that she tries to remember, I said that she should not make up things but try to remember. I have had the experience in listening to someone give an account of what happened, and they leave out details that are helpful to their side and then when prompted to remember, they do remember and sometimes what they remember is of assistance to them. Ben There I am not seeing where the bag was too big (according to the specs the airline gives). It may have been too big to fit, that is another thing. If the airline did provide carry on specs for that specific flight and hers was too big, then the electronics will not be covered. I don't know how you can tell from the review that this particular carry on was too big. If the aircraft for a particular flight is small, with small spaces for carry ons the onus is on the airline to bring that to the attention of the passenger. BTW no Judge is stupid.

Judges are among the smartest and most perceptive persons you can find.

About lying, I can tell you that airlines are the ones who train their CSRs to lie to avoid paying complaining passengers. Yes, I said "train". And I got that from someone on the inside of a Consumer Relations department of a major airline.

I have nothing against airlines. They provide us with reasonable service at very low fares compared with 20-30 years ago when you consider the relative costs of living then and now. But I am making the point here that when passengers like this OPs friend are denied justice from airlines whose agents talk about this policy and that policy the answer is to take them to small claims. You the passenger have the upperhand in small claims. You file in your home state and they are put to sending witnesses and lawyers across the country and it's just not worth it for them, especially when they are likely to lose anyway.

The reason why people don't go to small claims court has nothing to do with not fraud and scammers. The reasons are:
(1) They think the airlines have "big" lawyers
(2) They don't know about court
(3) They can't afford to take the day off from work to attend court.

But small claims judges often "shush" lawyers who try to use their knowledge of the law to get the upperhand against the lay litigant, to ensure a level playing field. It is a forum for the simple man of average intelligence to state his case. The procedure is very easy, and clerks at the small claims court gladly assist in filling out forms. It often costs nothing. You pay about $50 to file the case and then if you win the Judge adds that to the damages the defendant has to pay. You don't have to pay lawyers, whereas the big companies often pay lawyers. Furthermore they try to avoid the bad publicity.

So all this "Sorry Sir" and "Sorry Ma'am" crying passengers get from call centers in India changes when it reaches Court where the airline finds itself on its knees before a "stupid" Judge.

I don't know how I am like the thief who stole the camera. He tried to enrich himself with someone else's property. I am trying to guide the OP to get justice from an airline if they refuse to compensate her.

I say if the airline want to hire thieves, so be it. The job interview for a baggage handler must go like this.

Human Resources Manager: So you want to be a baggage handler
Applicant: Yes, I would love that job
HR Manager: Why is that?
Applicant: I would like to be able to hide a bag or two for a few days as the bags come off the aircraft, and when I get the chance, open it and see if I like anything
HR Manager: What experience have you had?
Applicant: Well I've worked for Slippery Sam until we got caught and spent some time in jail for burglary
HR Manager: Well you are just what we need. Can you start tomorrow?
Applicant: Sure
HR Manager: Just don't get caught. I'll get some of our seasoned baggage handlers to give you some tips.
Posted by Ben There on 2009-12-25:
Northwest Airlink planes have different carry on sizes than Northwest Airlines. This is spelled out on the website, and the codeshare and aircraft information is given to the customer when buying the ticket. The gate agents in Memphis also explain what they are doing. The airline did not take her bag out of spite or because the plane was full... The OP just showed up with a bag that was too big for the aircraft she was flying on... Thousands of people are prepared to valet check bags every week. It is a fact of life when flying into smaller airports. The OP had the choice of flying into New Orleans if she wanted to be on a large airplane.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-25:
The bottom line is that the bag wasn't small enough to fit under the seat in front of her. Too large!
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-25:
This is what I got from website:

"Northwest Airlink flights operated by Pinnacle and Mesaba on CRJ aircraft allow each passenger to bring onboard two personal items. As always, items must fit in the overhead compartment or under the seat in front of you."

It doesn't say how big this overhead compartment is. But maybe I missed it. Right now I'm on my third shot of Johnny Walker Black so I'm prepared to say you are correct and it's there on the website.

Hope you guys are having a merry Christmas.
Posted by Ponie on 2009-12-25:
James, if you're old enough to drink Johnny Walker Black, you're old enough to know better. But I guess some people never grow up.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-25:
Whatever, Ponie ... hic... No mood to argue with you ....hic...hic....
Posted by YunkaG on 2009-12-26:
The OP can't sue anyone except her friend. The OP did not fly so how could the op possibly sue the airline? She can only sue her friend and her friend can sue the airline. Sounds like a Judge Judy show.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-26:
YunkaG, at least Judge Judy is a real judge, not some wannabe trying to impress (yawn) an anonymous bunch on the internet.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-26:
"....I can tell you that airlines are the ones who train their CSRs to lie..." James326 prove this statement with some more details please. Name the person, airline, and circumstance this would occur.
A few regulars here are former airline employees and I doubt they received this "training."
As a legal poser what are you doing making unsubstaniated claims, you know that is a legal no no
Posted by Ponie on 2009-12-26:
VF-213, you'll never get details from James. He's either busy putting together his next work of fiction or passed out from imbibing. However, his use of the teen expression 'whatever,' leads me to believe he's illegally hoisting a few.
Posted by Phalkyn on 2009-12-26:
Responding to a few comments, yes, I trust her in the utmost. No, I can't see why the bag would have been prohibited, we're not talking about a duffel, we're talking about a regular sized bookbag. Maybe 1 1/2' by 1' by 10" and crushable. It's super fishy, and she told me that when she was making the connector switch in Detroit.
Posted by Ben There on 2009-12-26:
If she valet checked her bag for the Northwest Airlink flight in Portland then she should have collected it in Detroit. Unlike gate checking a bag on a large plane where it gets sent to your final destination, gate checking on a small plane is just temporary and it is returned to you when you land at the next city.

If she exited the jetway in Detroit without her bag, that is why it didn't arrive in Baton Rouge with her. It was sitting in a jetway...
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-26:
VF is right James. I am a former airline employee. We were not taught to lie. I worked in reservations for 3 years and was a supervisor for half the time I was there. The employees get monitored regularly by their managers. If they got caught lying, they could lose their jobs and in some cases the airline could get fined.
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Impossible to contact via phone
Posted by Sparticus on 12/22/2009
Just wanted to share my displeasure with NWA. We are flying out of town today, my wife, our daughter (under 2 years old) and myself. We have 3 seats reserved since we wanted our daughter to have more room for the long flight.

Long story short, I wanted to make sure we had 3 seats together. Logged on to and tried to reserve the seats last night. It showed a few groups of 3 seats available at the time.

It would not let me. It kept assigning us random seats all over the plane. So I decide to call NWA and see what was going on. I can't talk to anyone. They were experiencing high call volume and told me to try again later. Fine. It was the evening so I thought I would try this morning.

So this morning comes, I log in to the website. All the seats are now gone. I can't change them. My 15 month old daughter is now seated alone in the back of the plane. Nice. They know she is under 2 since we had to specify it at the time of reservations.

Anyway, back to my complaint. I try to call NWA again. This time I get through and get their automated response system. It takes me through a series of hoops where it makes me talk to the computer, and the computer tries very hard to understand me by repeating it back 5 times. Each time it messes something else up and starts all over. Finally the computer gets my information correct, and then tells me they are having system problems and they will connect me to an operator. Great! That is all I wanted to begin with.

A few seconds go by, I get a message that they are experiencing high volume of calls and cannot take my call at this time. It hangs up on me.

I spent 20 minutes battling the automated system for them to tell me they can't help me. Nice.

Hopefully we can get at least two seats together when we check in at the airport. Otherwise I'm going to leave a bottle with the flight attendant and tell her good luck. ;-)
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Posted by BEJ on 2009-12-22:
Ask your fellow passengers and I am certain someone will change to allow all of you to sit together.
Posted by Ben There on 2009-12-22:
Most airlines have extremely long hold times because so many flights were cancelled because of the recent storms, and this is one of the busiest travel weeks of the year.

As for the seats, Northwest allows you to assign seats months in advance. Why did you wait till now? Lots of people are traveling in groups this week.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-22:
Delta airlines receives over 500k web visits alone everyday so you can imagine how many phone inquiries there are. Ops are still not back to restored so I'm not surprised they are hard to get a hold of.
Posted by Sparticus on 2009-12-22:
Yeah we figured we could swap seats once we get on the plane. Most folks probably don't want to sit next to a toddler with no parent. ;-)

We did make this reservation in August. We had to call and give our daughters info since she was so young. Didn't think it was possible they would separate an infant from the parents. I had tried last week to check the seats. The flight was not taking seat reservations yet. Too early. So I remembered to check last night.

But I'm fine with all that. What annoyed me was how their phone system wastes your time trying to collect all this information repeating it over and over and then it just hangs up and says try again later. At least let me wait in a queue. Don't just hang up on me. Or tell me up front before wasting 20 minutes of my life in your crappy voice recognition system. I felt like they were keeping me on the line simply to be a test candidate for their buggy system.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-22:
I wish airlines would handle high volumes of calls the way T-mobile and Time Warner handles them. You get a recording saying long wait times and offering to call you back when it is your turn. You dont lose your place in line; their system just automatically calls you as though you had stayed n hold that entire time.

I also agree seating is down right silly, especially when they KNOW you are traveling with toddler. their system should be smart enough to find at least two seats together automatically.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-12-22:
I have friends who work for US Airways and they are making the employees work mandatory overtime. My friend worked 16 hours the other day. At one point, she said the calls on hold reached 1,000. SO, it's a busy time of year with the holidays and the weather. Just gotta be patient with all the airlines. They are doing the best they can
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