Citizens Bank

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Boat Repo
Posted by on
PO BOX 1790 FLINT, MICHIGAN -- My family as well as the rest of the country has fallen on bad times.

I am a boat owner for the last 6 years who has struggled with a payment that I was never supposed to have been mine longer than a month.

To make a long story short, I have had to struggled with this burdensome payment that has put my family's well being at an additional risk since I have been injured laid off and lost my personal business. I had advised Citizens of my job status, communicated, asked to have the loan modified, I made sale efforts recently and successfully was able to sell the boat, or so I thought. I connected the bank and buyer and both parties had decided on a price of 20k discounted from 27k and to take the boat on a cash deal.

The auction price of this particular 21' Crownline and trailer even with the low 300 hrs would probably bring 10 to 12k I had been advised by meany local boat dealers and buyers. All that being said, we the buyer and I asked the case worker lady to provide us with the bank wiring instructions and the buyer would wire the 20k immediately. The buyer had viewed and inspected the boat and immediately offered 5000.00 Cash to put down and to wire the balance within 24 hrs!

Apparently bank changed their decision without warning and did not provide the wire instructions to us or answer the our constant phone calls for two days ......I personally called at noon to the bank and asked politely via our case workers voice mail to please call back so we could find out what's was going on? 45 Min before their close of business time on the 10th of November (the dead line date), the nice lady who I had been dealing with got nasty and said we had not called and that we were now passed the given dead line! I was very angry and asked if they were one of the banks that had taken the federal bailout money and if that was how they were going to pay my boat off and double their money? After the heated discussion I offered to return the boat and even drive it to the repossession man who I had spoken with multiple times previously. After hanging up at 5:00 pm the buyer called and said he spoke to the seller twice and was waiting on final closing instructions and we are still 8 days later!
I am trying desperately to keep a repo. And or a bankrupt off my record by paying this boat payment by feeding my family mac and cheese without gifts special treats or turkey for holidays and Christmas the past 2 years going on 3 we were on temporary disability and loans from friends! I can't believe that America is being manipulated by such crooked banks and employees! This is crippling Americans and our economy ! Instead of Citizens Bank of flint Michigan taking nearly double the auction price they would rather bankrupt a small American family who has taken bread off their table and assumed a personal responsibility for helping their institution sell a boat saving the bank thousands in repossession and legal costs! These selfish narrow minded folks are not willing to do their jobs and cooperate civilly to save their corporation from a larger loss that might require them to do their job correctly and fight to help a fellow Americans family who cooperated and communicated honestly during the loan, and went out of their way to find a solution to their own personal 6 year family problem rather than take the easy way out and bankrupt on their personal debt! Shame on these crooks in flint.
Imagine this;
if every boat, house, or car owner in default would try to be responsible, citizens could save 10 k per loan possibly like I am trying to! At that point citizens might be able to fix this little balance problem they have.

Companies » bank (public)
citizens republic bancorp
Of bank bailout commitment
Of total bailout commitment.
Disbursed $300,000,000
returned $0
revenue to gov't $13,875,000
net outstanding $286,125,000

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* profile
* sec filings
* google finance


map: corporate headquarters of citizens republic bancorp.
Flint, mich.
See all recipients in Michigan
loud, discussed, broke, and barley alive!
Country folks will survive happy holidays good luck America
don't forget to vote!

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Anonymous on 11/18/2010:
These people that run these banks are full of pricks. They don't care. Plain and simple. They don't care about you or the buyer, or whether or not you get a repo on your record or not.
werelucky on 11/18/2010:
You lost me where you say the buyer contacted the seller twice and they have been waiting 8 days for instructions. I thought you were the seller. The real reason the county is in the financial mess is because to many people bought to many things they couldn't afford on credit. I'm not sure what the government bailout has to do with defaulting boat owners. As a Citibank stock owner I want to see the bank have its loan contracts fulfilled.
warddw1526 on 11/18/2010:
Looking at the list of banks that received bailout money (, Citizens was not on the list.

Although their parent bank RBS did receive bailout money in England
silent on 12/01/2010:
so far this 3 cents worth has generated a immediate response from citizens and we are working on a resolution.
trmn8r on 12/01/2010:
Why did you end up with 6 years of payments, when you weren't supposed to have more than one month's worth?

The rest of the country has not fallen on hard times. At least I haven't. I took out a large loan before the bank disaster, but I had enough cash on hand to easily pay the loan if a surprise occurred.

I just wanted to use the bank's money. I'm not keen on borrowing money I don't have.
Anonymous on 12/01/2010:
"The rest of the country has not fallen on hard times." Where have you been trmn8r? Although I am happy to hear you are not one of the more than half of Americans who have been negatively affected in many ways by the recession. Here's a look at just a little of what it's done to the land of plenty and over half of her people;
trmn8r on 12/01/2010:
I've been living under a rock, evidently. The rent is reasonable, the utilities are low, and as I always have avoided in my life I didn't overextend myself. Therefore the recession did not cause great hardship.

A large part of the problem we have had in the past few years is that many consumers were heavily in debt. People using credit cards without regard for paying them off. Using mortages recklessly. For decades, I have shaken my head that the savings rate in this country is so pathetically low. It was 0% in June 2005. My savings rate was always around 20% or more when I worked.

I'm not alone. The people I know didn't lose their jobs, their cars. I realize a lot of people ARE going through a rough time. But I don't agree with any statement like "the whole country..." Every person is in their own situation.
Anonymous on 12/01/2010:
Most people I know did not over extend themselves either, but due to circumstances beyond their control, businesses going under, hours being cut, layoffs, jobs being scarce or non existent in many areas, loss of medical benefits, etc., many of those people have suffered greatly in the economic meltdown.
Venice09 on 12/01/2010:
Why didn't you sell the boat when you first realized you couldn't afford it? Unless it's your livelihood, a boat is not a necessity. I don't think it's fair to put yourself in the same category as struggling home/car owners.
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Worst. Bank. Ever.
Posted by on
PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND -- Let me start by saying, I live in Florida and my parents live(d) in Vermont.

My mother and father had a mortgage with Citizens Bank. My dad died 10/23/10 and my mother was in the hospital. I was in Vermont helping with things at that time.

Citizens Bank called about payment, I explained the situation (and that my mother would be getting to her financial business when she got out of the hospital). I wrote the check out and had my mother sign it. All was right with the world again.

I returned to Florida in late November, but booked a flight back to Vermont, as my mother was still in the hospital when I left and I felt I needed to get Power of Attorney and take over her bills until she was better.

Sadly, after having flown my mother down to Florida (with her money) so I could care for her in my home, my mother passed away 1/23/11. I had to return north to arrange for her funeral and start the paperwork to become executor to her estate.

I contacted the people that needed to be contacted and explained the situation. Everyone was understanding and sympathetic. However, the day after I contacted Citizens Bank a very rude woman called asking for, first my dad, and then my mom. It was Citizens Bank. I could not believe these people! Even after I told her the situation, she was coarse and rude. She told me to fax the death certificates and executor paperwork as soon as I was named.

After returning home, my sister, who lives down the road from my parents' house and stops in frequently, called to tell me on 2/25/2011 that Citizens Bank called and I needed to call them. I did and spoke at great length with Shayla, who told me to fax both death certificates, my driver's license, my contact information, and a note asking what I can do to keep the account in good standing until the paperwork gets through the courts (how customer friendly is that!?!). I did all of that on 2/25/11.

Thankfully, I had received a check from my mother's insurance and was able to pay all the bills due (I am still waiting for the court to name me executor).

I paid Citizens Bank's February payment (due the 10th) and March's payment on 3/4/2011.

Yesterday, 3/7/2011, I receive two letters from Citizens Bank, one addressed just to my dad and one addressed to both my parents demanding they contact them within 10 days of the date of letter (dated 2/28/11, mailed 3/1/11) or they would turn the account over to a collection agency! My mother and father never paid these people late and have $8000 in one of their local branches. It wasn't like this was a problem account...not to mention the fact that I had spoken to numerous people there explaining the situation AND faxed everything their employee asked me to fax!

Needless to say, I called them in a rage. I did not call the number on the threatening letter, as it is their Consumer Counseling Dept. and I did not need help with paying my bills...although I will probably need counseling after dealing with these inept buffoons.

After dialing and connecting to their automated service, I had to put in my father's social security number so they could "better serve me" and waited for, “The next available representative”. Lynn was finally available.

I told her I wanted to speak with a supervisor. She needed the account number I was calling about...thanks for serving me better. I gave it to her and she stated she would take a look at the account. I told her no, that I wanted to speak to a supervisor for the reasons listed above.

After some back and forth, she said she needed to connect me to the 'correct' department and asked what kind of loan it was dealing with (did she not just get the account number?!?)...I told her it was a mortgage. She transferred me to the Customer Counseling Dept!

Denise requested the account number, which I gave her. I told her I didn't need to speak to someone about anything other than the fact that I had notified them numerous times over the phone of the situation and had even faxed over all the things listed above and now I just wanted to speak to someone about the threatening letters and ineptitude of their bank. We had a few more back and forths.

Denise then told me that they had received the faxed death which I responded that I knew that, that wasn't the point and that I wanted to speak to a supervisor about the things listed above. She then interrupted me to tell me they had received payment (which I had already told her I had paid with the insurance money); I again went over why I was calling and when she interrupted me the 3rd time, I finally screamed at her...asking her what part of, I know they received the death certificates and payments and that I just wanted to speak to a supervisor, did she not understand?!?

Finally, and very condescendingly, she agreed to get one; asking several times if I would mind being put on hold...each time I told her that would be fine as long as I would be speaking with a supervisor.

After about 5 minutes, Ms. Jennifer comes on the line and informs me that I have contacted the wrong which I tell her, "No, one of your employees transferred me here!" She then tells me that this is the auto loan department (but, Denise told me it was the Customer Counseling Dept?!?) and she would need to transfer me to the mortgage department and to please bear with her and she would supply me that number as well, in case I needed to call back.

She was stumbling over herself because she was lying through her teeth...and, after more hemming and hawing, starts to give me an 800 number, which I finished for her because it was the number I had called initially...she then ignored what I had said and asked to put me on hold to get the number.

When she came back to the phone, she gave me an 877 number (877-754-7366) and was mumbling something about everyone still thinks this department deals with all email had been sent out, but she guessed not everyone had read their which I responded that that was why I was calling...information given to that bank seems to fall into a black hole.

She then tells me she will transfer me to the correct department.

I'm on hold again waiting for, "The next available representative". Finally Donna answers. She asks for the account number. I calmly give her the account number, my name, and that I'm calling about my deceased parent's account. I also inform her that I have already spoken to Lynn, Denise, and Ms. Jennifer as well as numerous other employees on different occasions and I am just trying to talk to a supervisor. She asks if I can verify who I am by giving her my home address, phone number, and last 4 of my social security. I tell her I have faxed all that information to them and she should be able to see my parent's death certificates and all the other things I faxed and to put a supervisor on the phone. She then says she would just like to get a few bits of...I finally just told her that I would contact my lawyer and hung up.

I have not dealt with one employee there that gave me the confidence I was dealing with a professional business. They are a waste of space and as soon as the executor paperwork comes through, we are paying off the mortgage and pulling all my parent's money out of their bank.

I can only hope my parents insured the mortgage against their death...which might explain why they are so eager to put a loan that has been in outstanding status into a delinquent status for a payment 15 days late.
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Alain on 03/09/2011:
You might want to have an attorney help you with the estate.
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Unconscionable Thieves - Do not Bank with them.
Posted by on
Rating: 1/51
CONNECTICUT -- I have had a checking account with Citizens bank for about 16 years but as of lately have used it only for limited use because the closest branch is too far. When I originally opened it I lived in another state and the branch was five minutes from home. I have my SS Disability checks deposited into the account which I then used to pay my health insurance premiums and other bills. I receive SS disability because I have stage 4 breast cancer.

On July 13 I find a letter in my mail box dated July 9 from Citizens bank telling me that all accounts associated with my name would be closed effective immediately and that any balances in the account would be sent back to me after August 20. I had called their 800 number on July 9 to check my balance and was told that I had an available balance in excess of 1200. I then wrote a check on the account and deposited into another account that I have with another bank. When I received the letter on the 13, I called the bank and was told that yes the account was- depending on who I talked to- under review, closed, being closed etc and that they had reversed the check that I had written even though there was sufficient money to cover it (and charged me a fee).

I am then told that if I go to the bank branch to get my money I am not guaranteed that they will give it to me and I will have to wait until August 20 to get it out. I explain that I am very sick and need my money and that since they have already decided that the account is closed and are not honoring any checks they need to give me back my money. I then spend forever on the phone and finally get someone who gives me a code to give to the teller (it is already after banking hours) that they can look up to see that I need my money for medical reasons and to let me have my money.

I then call Social Security to ask them to change my direct deposit and they tell me that I am too late for this month and that the present months payment has already been sent to the bank (but is not yet showing as part of the balance) so the SS telephone agent and I call Citizens bank and are told that the auto deposit of the SS disability check will not be rejected (in which case SS could have reissued a check), but will instead reopen my account with Citizens and that there is no guarantee that Citizens will allow me to withdraw my money.

I explained that I depend on my SS disability for many things mainly my health insurance payment since I have end stage breast cancer and cannot lose my insurance. No go. Apparently Citizens must freeze my account while they take forever to close it while denying me access to my money. Even money that was not in the account when they closed it. How can this be legal. I am so sickened beyond belief.
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madconsumer on 07/13/2012:
what was the reason they closed your account?
trmn8r on 07/13/2012:
What you describe about an auto deposit "reopening" a closed account is standard procedure. I have experienced it myself at another bank.

Also, not being able to cancel direct deposits without several days notice. These things are inconvenient, but part of the banking system.

The thing that isn't explained is why they closed the account, but you apparently aren't challenging or complaining about that. I think you need to wait for your money unless you are able to get the process expedited by continuing to pressure them.

It isn't clear why you refer to the bank as "thieves".
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They Have a Lien on My Car I Paid Off Two Years Ago and Want Me to Pay for Their Error
Posted by on
Rating: 1/51
NEW JERSEY -- About 2 years ago I paid off my 2003 Chevy Venture (early) After paying it off my wife called and said we never got the title in the mail they informed us that it takes some time and I was not concerned as it was paid off and I was planning on keeping it for some time. Last week I go to trade it in my car and told that I need the title. Instead of waiting for the bank I go to NJ MVC to get a duplicate one at a cost of sixty dollars to speed up the process. MVC tells me that Citizen bank still holds a lien against me from two years ago. I find this very disturbing and go to the local branch in Haddon Hts NJ and they tell me it's paid off; but that they have had similar complaints from customers in the past. They put me on the phone with a subcontractor who handles the auto finance who says yes your car is paid off but you need to pay MVC/dmv their fee but only after you provide us with a credit card so we can charge you another fee for giving you a letter saying you paid off your loan -------WTF. I say no way. Eventually customer service at the local bank helps and says I will have a faxed letter showing the lien is paid off within two day. Two days goes by and they tell me it was entered wrong and give them a few more days a few more days go by and they tell me they can't help and I have to call this third party company they use and speak with Rita [snip], who then tells me it's my fault they never dropped the lien because I never answered a questionnaire they say they sent out two years ago and she will need a credit card to bill me for her services before she can help me- and then tells me she'll call me later-----help someone ---they mess up and want to charge me--- and I would actually pay the fee at this point but they tell me after I pay this fee to get a copy of a letter- that they will mail it out in 7-10 days------what awful service -
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CowboyFan on 03/22/2012:
Go to an attorney,have him contact citizen bank.
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Worst Bank Ever!!!!!!!!
Posted by on
I wish I could give a zero as a review..... Unfortunately that is not the case so this bank is getting a one by default...... This institution is a blood sucking, un-flexible bank that thrives off its customers by all means necessary. They charge outrageous fees and customer service supports these fees with the statement " we are supported by the federal government". With such economic hardships visible right in front of our eyes, this bank takes advantage of its customers and refuses to return any money to its customers. I recently received bank fees in the amount of $258 for 7 charges of 1.99. I was told by the customer service representative that this was a fair practice.....LOL In all my years of banking.... TD, Wachovia and Bank of America would all return the fee considering it was under 2 dollars. At least one time. And under the circumstances (That my mother just died). These leeches actually became ruder and ruder as I spoke to representative after rep.....And I have never requested the bank return any fees to me until this point (I am not a habitual offender) lol not that they care or it makes any difference to them...... Not to mention that this bank reorganizes charges in order to bounce items. I have been with this bank for about one year. I check my account every Tuesday at midnight before payday. Somehow most items manage to bounce in an order that forces you to have the most overdraft fees possible. For example: If you had a balance of 50 dollars and you had debts for 2.00, 7.00, 15.00, 1.99, 10.00 and 40.00, instead of the bank charging all the little charges, it will process the large charge first. So that you account overdrafts for an excessive amount instead of once or twice. When I questioned them about this I couldn't get a clear answer. The representative just laughed. My recommendation Go with Wachovia or any other bank for that matter. Just stay as far away from these guys as possible!!!!!!
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msnanny on 01/05/2011:
Sorry but this is not the banks fault. You are the one that controls how you spend what money you have. And BTW, most every bank processes the same way.
momsey on 01/05/2011:
If your charges were only the result of seven charges of $1.99, and you're not a habitual offender, how do you know or care in what order they process debits?

I don't honestly care what order my bank processes my debits from my account. If I overdraw, it's nobody's fault but mine. I do it VERY rarely, though, and I don't think I've ever overdrawn on more than one debit.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
Disturbed, I feel your pain. Are you aware Obama passed a law to help protect consumers from being preyed on by their financial institutions. Banks were supposed to notify you and tell you about either opting in or out of overdraft protection? Apparently you must have opted in, or your financial institution never notified you. I suggest you contact your financial institution and opt OUT of the overdraft protection. Banks thrive on overdraft fees, and in 98% of cases, will NOT remove fees. I totally think this is an unacceptable business practice, and the ones that say "tough, its your fault" seem to think they are perfect and never make mistakes. They are just silly. We ALL make mistakes, heck, I've accidentally transposed numbers, added or subracted wrong, or forgot to carry the one. It happens....does it make it right for banks to RAPE you for hundreds of dollars because of a mistake? Absolutely not!
Obsfucation on 01/05/2011:
Prince, when does personal responsibility come into play? Does Big Government have to hold all our hands 24 hours a day? This is someone who is swiping away with a debit card, having no clue what their balance is. I am just a little uncomfortable with the concept that we need big brother to protect us from ourselves.
Nate. on 01/05/2011:
I agree with Prince-Caesar - opt out of overdraft protection.

Every time I try to go in to my bank, they try to talk me in to getting overdraft "protection", and I decline. The teller always ties to talk me in to it under the premise that it "eliminates inconveniences and embarrassment". I honestly don't care what a store clerk thinks of me for my card being declined, and I can quickly transfer funds (for free) using my banks' app on my smartphone. I have only had an issue once, but it saved me around $36.

Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
Obsfucation, You do realize these national banks can only exist because of big brother and the federal reserve. Correct?

If you want a world where big brother isn't protecting the customer from the bank then I say fine but in that world let the banks exist without free federal reserve money and fiat of govermnet. Let them exist by honest banking. That's only fair, right?
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
Exactly Nate....I love how they call it "protection" It should be called something like Overdraft Attack! OBS- I am all for personal responsibility. I would be all for "overdraft protection" if it was FAIR. charging someone 35 dollars for one overdraft is ridiculous. I think the banks need a lesson in responsible business practices. If you think its fair for banks to impose hundreds of dollars in fees for ONE mistake, then I hope YOU never make a mistake!
tnchuck100 on 01/05/2011:
Prince, Nate: Right on!

The reason the banks are trying to get people to opt in is so they may continue their ability to fleece account holders. Not once for a mistake but to the maximum possible by reordering transactions.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
I have a checking account with ING Direct. I just opened it because they have this deal if you sign up, you will get 50 dollars free. What I LOVe about it, is they have FREE Overdraft protection! NO FEES if you go over your balance. All you do is pay interest on the amount you overdrawn. THAT is fair. If banks would have not been so greedy in the first place, these laws wouldn't have to be in effect to protect people!!
Obsfucation on 01/05/2011:
Prince, I could have a whole lot more sympathy if this was someone who maintained the account like an adult, and just made an error. That's not what happened. This is someone who checks the "account every Tuesday at midnight before payday". It's a very slippery slope when you allow the government to protect you from yourself.
trmn8r on 01/05/2011:
First of all, I believe none of the banks you mentioned would return more than the very first overdraft fee. That is a one-item *courtesy* (one overdraft). Not one a month, a year. Once.

Secondly, if you do research on overdrafts, you will find that what happened to you is what caused a recent law to be put into effect. For people who overdraft often, it makes sense to "opt out", meaning the bank will refuse items if they will cause an overdraft. You should have been asked in the past several months if you wanted to "opt in" as I believe the default was "opt out".

I recently paid my second overdraft fee in my life. I overdraft rarely, so I opted in.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
Hey, As I said. If banks weren't so greedy about it, I would be all for it. Banks are greedy. That's why these laws are in place. I opted out. Not because I overdraft a lot, but because I'm not giving the banks the opportunity to rip me off! If they want to offer me some other sort of overdraft protection that is fair, I'll hear them out. Weather you overdraft a lot, or hardly ever, does NOT make it any more right for banks to rip people off like that. Its just wrong.
trmn8r on 01/05/2011:
To the people discussing "opt in" "protection" I agree that term is a bit deceiving.

HOWEVER, I recently had my second overdraft, and it was a monthly $300 payment for an $18,000 no interest loan. If that item had not cleared, I may have incurred $2000 of interest slapped at me by the lender. For me it turned out to be a wise choice to opt in.

Opting in is good for people who overdraft once every two years or less often, IMO.
trmn8r on 01/05/2011:
Obs, the OP said their mother had just died! When my mother died, it caused my first overdraft, so I can relate. Granted, I kept better track of my account as a rule, but under the circumstances, it didn't make much difference.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
As I said, I have an account with ING Direct. NO overdraft fees. Just pay interest on the amount you overdraw...Wow, a bank that is fair? Who'da thunk??
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
trmn8r, I don't see anything wise about your situation at all. You're 18k in debt and on a given day your checking account balance was below $300. No offense but I'd be seriously worried about my financial health if I were you.
momsey on 01/05/2011:
Prince, I also have an account with ING Direct, and they are great. The drawback is, you have no choice but to have a linked checking account at a brick and mortar bank, so you can only avoid fees so much.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
momsey, not necessarily. You can have direct deposit with them, so you really don't need a regular bank. They can send you checks, and my debit card is on its way in the mail. You may need one to first set up your account, but after that, you can close it.
trmn8r on 01/05/2011:
Lord Rothschild. You have no idea how this interest free loan fits into my overall financial situation. It may (or not) interest you to know that currently I have $80,000 in cash in non-IRA money market accounts, over $500,000 in stock, about $200,00 in my IRA, a paid for house. I haven't paid a penny in interest on a loan, or a credit card over 20 years.

You don't need to express a concern over my welfare. I have paid two overdraft fees in my LIFE, $62. This while others pay hundreds/thousands a YEAR in interest on loans and bank fees.
momsey on 01/05/2011:
Dang, Prince, I thought I needed to keep that outside checking account. I just looked at their FAQs and you are right! Very interesting. I might have to think about cutting the cord with my brick and mortar checking account!

But they won't send you checks. You can have checks sent out from your account, but you won't get a checkbook like with other checking accounts.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
What I would ask you then trmn8r is why not draft your loan payment from your money market account thereby mitigating the risk of paying an overdraft fee on your poorly funded checking account. That's just a no-brainer in my book. A $30 OD fee is at least a years worth of interest on $2000 of savings. Also not to mention the 'risk' of being hit with $2K of interest if for some reason on loan draft day your OD protection on your poorly funded checking account is exhausted thereby bouncing the payment.

Seems risky if you ask me.
yoke on 01/05/2011:
This is not the banks fault. The OP did not know how much was in the account and kept spending.
Obsfucation on 01/05/2011:
Trmn8r, yes he did say his mother had passed away. Does he manage his account in other circumstances? Seven debits at 1.99 sounds like 7 cups of coffee to me, so I am not sure there is much bearing between the two.
yoke on 01/05/2011:
obs, $1.99 is the price for a Dunkin Donuts coffee, lol. Was just going though my sons online account(he called to ask me to check his balance) and was shocked to see how many $1.99 he had from Dunkin. They all cleared though.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
Think we need to go back to the day where if you overdraft you bank account, you get arrested for check fraud. When you try to use money than you have it is called stealing. In reality, the banks are doing you a favor of charging $40 an each time instead of having you arrested. You save attorney fees, fines, loss of income while in jail, etc., etc.,

Everyone needs to be responsible for exactly how much money they have in account. Don't use more than you have, it's that simple. What the banks really need to do is charge $500 each time someone steals from them.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
"each time someone steals from them"

Holy hyperbole throwback by what stretch of logic is an overdraft stealing from the bank? Either the bank voluntarily extends credit to cover the overdraft or they refuse it. Either way by no sane definition can that be considered stealing from the bank.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
When mr jones has you ten dollar bills on the table of which he owes you five. He tells you to take five, but you take six, what do you call that? I call that stealing when you take something that is not yours.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
throwback, It's not stealing if mr jones voluntarily gives you the extra dollar which is the case when the banks cover an overdraft. It's a very legal and very expensive short term loan. The only theft in my eyes would be mr. jones charging you $39 to loan you $1 for a week.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
Two words: change banks.
Anonymous on 01/05/2011:
Lord, totally agree with you there! The banks can easily DENY the transaction. THEY allow the account to go into the negative by approving the transaction. in NO way is that stealing.
CrazyRedHead on 01/06/2011:
The banks reserve the right to reorder the way debits are processed, but if you have adequate money in there to cover all then it shouldn't matter in which order they come in. I'm with BoA and they do things the same way. My husband overdrew his account by .10 and they hit him with a $35.00 fee and they would not remove it and he doesn't do this very often, and he has been with them for +20 years.

You can't opt out of the overdraft protection and they will deny any debit transaction at the point of purchase.
NOTE: Opting out will not work for automatic payments and check writing.
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Irresponsible unreliable procedures
Posted by on
SYRACUSE, NEW YORK -- I was at a grocery store last night and went to check out and I always use my Master/debit card because I almost never carry cash. I generally use the Master/debit and hit credit so I don’t have to pay any fees. Well, the cashier tells me my purchase is denied because I have a lost or stolen card.

So… I call Citizens Savings bank of Central NY this afternoon and it seems that another supermarket that I used to shop at about 5 years ago in a different town had their computer system compromised in February or March so they contacted the financial institutions of the credit card customers they had on file and the fraud department of Citizens Savings Bank of Central NY decided that they needed to send out all new cards to the compromised accounts card holders in mid March.

Well I told the customer service associate that I spoke to at 800-922-9999 that I never received a new card, nor any notification or even a simple phone call or email (funny but they never seem to have a problem sending emails to advertise their financial wares) so why on earth would they think that it was OK to just close my card yesterday with absolutely no notification? Well she danced around and tried all that mumbo jumbo gibberish that those types of associates are supposed to do and as a customer service associate myself, I recognized kept calling her on all her tactics. She kept insisting that they sent out a new card and notified me.

I informed the associate that “communication” is when they send out a notice and I respond or reply to them acknowledging that I received notification. If I don’t receive notification nor do I respond then nothing has been communicated. (Period!) I told her if I had received such a notification in a timely manner I probably would not have had any problems with it but this is totally irresponsible and absolutely unacceptable for a financial institution to behave in this manner with absolutely no record of communication of any notification or acceptance of this procedure. To just randomly turn someone’s card off???

I went on to tell her that I was at work and not getting out till after 7 pm. They have my money and I have no way to get to it, in my book that’s pretty much the same thing as stealing or robbing from me regardless of what they think and quite frankly as a customer it is not my concern to care about what they think or not.

She says to me well we can overnight you a new card if you just give me the account number. So I say to her how am I supposed to give you an account number? I have a Master/Debit card that you closed? I don’t carry checks with an account number on them because I didn’t think I needed them. Indeed I haven’t needed them for over 5 years! So she says to me well you can call us tonight when you get home with the account number. I say to her yes but if you overnight a card tonight then what? It’ll get here Friday while I’m at work? Or better yet maybe by Monday the next day that I have off? Guess I really don’t need to eat or buy gas for the next four or five days huh? That’s simply NOT acceptable! You see you have my money and I have no access to it. All I have is a card that you closed without out communicating that action to me and somewhere in Syracuse is a card which you claim you sent out that can access my account, Call me stupid but it sounds to me like someone has some explaining to do and it isn’t me! I want this card turned back on and I want it turned on NOW! If this supermarket computer system was compromised over a month ago and no one has hit my stupid sad little account by now I doubt they are going to. Well… she did some more humming and hawing and I finally said to her look give me your name and transfer me to your supervisor we’re finished. You’re not hearing me and this is not acceptable. So next I speak to Amanda Cauble who is supposedly some yada yada supervisor or someone with a title but who cares, someone else’s title does not get me what I need now. And she says basically the same thing. So I tell her listen, you have my money and I don’t and what’s more with no branch accessible to me right now I have no access to it so that is basically tantamount to you stealing my money and I am more than prepared to go as public and as LOUDLY as I can with this regardless of whether it is resolved quickly or not. Your company messed up. You never communicated this process to me because you never confirmed any such notification. What I want to hear right now is that you are going to turn this card back on and that’s that, not really anything else I want to hear from you at this time.

Then she used the ‘policy” word and some crap about having x number of account members yada yada, so I calmly said to her. OK lesson #1 in any customer service transaction never and I mean NEVER use a phrase like “our policy” unless you want your butt handed back to you because no customer gives two hoots about your policy or if you have one. And secondly, I don’t care if you have all 46 billion of America as your customers it maters nothing to me all that matters to me is “ME”

Finally I tell this woman, I need to speak to her supervisor. She tells me there isn’t one and I tell her that I find it hard to believe that someone who is as ineffectual as she seems to be is the final authority on anything. Then she tells me that her supervisor is only a personnel supervisor and deals with only personnel issues. I came dangerously close to telling her well she obviously has a personnel issue on her hands that she doesn’t know about because you are fairly terrible at your job. Then this Amanda Cauble person gives me some crap about the only supervisor over her that I can speak to about my problem is a regional supervisor or a branch manager???? Huh??? I find it nearly impossible to believe that a branch manager in god knows where can solve my problem. However, when I question her for access numbers and names for these people she fails to give me the information.

I’m sorry but these accounts will be closed as soon as I can manage the transfer. Or better yet I might just leave them open with a couple dollars on deposit so the bank will continue to waste their resources to manage that couple of dollars.

Now aside from searching for major complaining spots online to blast Citizens Savings Bank of Central NY and writing to the newspaper editorials what other recourse is there? Do I need to contact NYSBD? The NY state Attorney General?
Resolution Update 04/25/2008:
the bank came to as acceptible a resolution as they could offer.
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abobo on 04/17/2008:
Before calling the attorney general, newspapers and the national guard, have you tried going to your branch and explaining your issue in person?

I lost my debit card some years ago and the HSBC branch issued me a generic card on the spot and then mailed me a fully personalized one within two weeks.
Hugh_Jorgen on 04/17/2008:
It sounds like the bank tried several ways to accommodate you. You were the one insisting on an unrealistic solution. Save the attorney general and the governor a lot of time and just change banks.
MSCANTBEWRONG on 04/17/2008:
While I empathize with your situation, the bank was trying to protect you and your money. They made an error by not sending you a new card, informing you of the change, and just arbitrarily shutting off your existing card. But, they did try to rectify the situation and you chose to demand unrealistic solutions. I agree with Hugh...find a new bank.
Principissa on 04/17/2008:
Why would you want to continue to use a card that may have been compromised? Yes the bank could have handled the situation better, I absolutely agree with you there, however, what you want to do is unrealistic. I suggest you find a new bank.
Anonymous on 04/17/2008:
When a situation like the compromised cards at Hannaford's Supermarkets occurs, the financial institutions are in a real bind to identify which of the (in this case 4.2 million) cards belong to them, to flag these cards and then to re-issue them quickly. It aint easy. If one slips through the cracks, I think they deserve a little slack. Your wrath would be more rightly directed towards Hannafords.
laklisa on 04/17/2008:
I read where you are in customer service as well-I assume you are a phone agent like the rep you spoke with & myself. If that is the case it must not be with a retailer or bank. Once we close the account due to a card being lost or stolen, there is nothing we can due to reverse that. I am betting that is the case in this situation. Granted no one has tried to use your information, but now its guaranteed that they won't. Hopefully you can go to a branch and withdraw cash.
Good luck!
TonyPsyr on 04/25/2008:
I originally posted this review or complaint as it is. I feel that in the current financial climate as consumers we need to be aware of how institutions are “serving” us the customers or how their “service” is sadly lacking regardless of whether the behaviors of the institution associates are dictated by cooperate rules for acceptable customer interactions or if those interactions are colored by an associates personal opinions or biases. With that in mind let me state that I would like to think that the associates with whom I initially interacted where following cooperate rules. I was not unreasonable with them but I did pressure them because I wanted something slightly more than gibberish cooperate talk. These initial interactions were not satisfactory. I later spoke with Rhonda Winters who resolved the issue with as satisfactorily a solution as she could offer and furthermore offered reasonable and sensible explanations for how the issue occurred in the first place. As a result of this issue and definitely not reflective of Ms Winters excellent handling of my case or any of the associates with whom I dealt I still have chosen to open accounts elsewhere and concentrate my banking with other institutions, although not closing my citizens accounts completely; after all, this is a buyers market!
In response to ‘abobo’ no, I did not call out the National Guard. I would comment that before you make such statements you should perhaps consider yourself heading into a weekend with no access to your money and maybe 10 bucks in your pocket.
In response to Mr Jorgen, yes and no they did not try to contact me. The bank sent one solitary notice and that was presumably contained with the new card which I never received. I would assume that there may have been a letter that explained why and how my account was compromised included in the mailing of the new card but that I’ll never know as I did not receive that card.
Interestingly enough, Citizens Savings bank, a division of CharterOne, chooses not to contact its members via email when such issues arise. However they never hesitate to email advertisement of new and extensive outsourced and in house services they offer which may and may not have associated additional fees. Note also that after I posted this complaint and sent the bank a copy of the original complaint that I received three emails and two phone calls within 2 days. It is unfortunate that I had to go to this length to get a reasonable response; albeit a response at all.
In response to ‘mscantbewrong’ they did send a card or so they claimed and I feel reasonably sure that the bank did make that solitary attempt. If you read my original post I think I stressed that I did not receive that one and only attempted notification. Further, I think I expressed that there were no other attempts at notification.
Overall ‘mscantbewrong’ and ‘principessa’ wrote nice notes neither of which I am in total disagreement with.
In sum, the issue was resolved in an OK manner. Ms Winters service was very good to outstanding. Overall I could not recommend Citizens Savings Bank to others. It is true that they have some nice perks such as rewards points, free checking and other similar bonuses but similar perks are generally available elsewhere. However they do have a fee structure and inconsistent and unpredictable applications of those fees.
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Citizens Will Drop You Like a Fly if You Learn to Fight Their Fees
Posted by on
NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE -- Summary of Experience:

Branch customer service is good - but corporate office eventually ruins it. Placing your money with Citizens Bank is not a safe bet; e. g., my fiancée and I made a deposit worth thousands of dollars: this deposit was returned by no fault of ours. When the deposit was returned we were assessed a $10 fee, which we paid. We had also spoken extensively with our branch and phone banking service and made sure to correct the problem in less than 24 hours by depositing the returned amount in cash. Despite this, the bank's "fraud" department closed our account - even after all the evidence of our acting in good faith to correct a problem we never caused. Our ChexSystems record is now soiled with an "account abuse" item based on an event which we addressed immediately and was not our fault - the branch gave up on helping us and succumbed to the corporate decision, which was based on partial information. Citizens Bank is as problematic as Bank of America. DO NOT OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITH CITIZENS BANK.


Detailed Account of Experience:

Branch service is initially good - but eventually the corporate office will ruin it - quite unjustifiably too. The branch will make the effort to work with you and most other branches have friendly personnel too, but they struggle as mediators between customers they are trying to keep and a bank corporation eager to assess fees unfairly whenever it can. After many months of working well with us - and in some cases going out of their way to help us as customers - our account was closed by way of a unilateral decision on their part. My fiancée and I deposited a check for thousands of dollars. This check was returned by no fault of ours. When it was returned we were assessed a $10 fee, which we paid despite not being responsible for the returned deposit check. Over the course of the next 24 hours my fiancée and I spoke repeatedly and consistently with branch employees as well as phone banking employees making sure to understand the repercussions of this returned deposit (to find out, for example, how payments coming out of our account would be affected, etc.). We also spoke at length of how we could correct this issue immediately. Within 24 hours we re-deposited the money in CASH. We left the bank relieved that this problem was taken care of only to find out a couple of days later that Citizens Bank had frozen our funds - we could not withdraw a penny - and that the account was scheduled to be CLOSED. Shocked by this, we called the branch, the phone bank service, etc. and received conflicting feedback: everyone but the branch employees ascertained that the branch could correct the problem. The branch insisted that they could not do anything and seemed eager to close the account and stop speaking to us - there was no intent to resolve an obvious misunderstanding. The corporate Citizens Bank office, specifically a "fraud" office in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, had flagged our account as fraudulent simply because a deposit that we made was returned by the bank it came from. There was never any recognition of the effort we made immediately to resolve the matter nor did employees at the local branch acknowledge this effort. At the corporate level no one ever accounted for our effort, in good faith, to fix the problem by depositing the cash amount the account was now missing due to the returned deposit. Citizens Bank has now soiled our ChexSystems record with an "account abuse" label - something that is most definitely not merited in this case. We had NEVER had a check deposit returned and we took care of the problem by replacing the returned deposit with an equal amount in cash within 24 hours. When we spoke with the branch it was like speaking to completely different people - there was no human element whatsoever in their effort or conversation and we left baffled that the bank had made this decision, treated us like delinquents, and moved swiftly to clear us out of their system - all while damaging our ChexSystems record with an inaccurate picture of what happened and a partial account of the story. DO NOT OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITH CITIZENS BANK - they are as problematic as Bank of America and by the admission of at least one employee we spoke to in the course of this event they are getting worse. The online banking system is also very deceiving - you will never really know what your accurate balance is because they take days and days to post items against your account: many of these items are hidden fees and this is most likely by design and meant to catapult you into a nightmare of fees. For your sake and the sake of your hard-earned money, please don't feed this monster of a corporation. I am a pro-business, pro free-market conservative Republican and I can admit that this company has gotten out of hand in abuse – I cannot stand by their business practices. We should not have "account abuse" and fraud all over our ChexSystems: Citizens Bank should have that all over their customer reviews and ratings.
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tnchuck100 on 06/26/2009:
Your review seems to have merit. But a key piece of information is missing. You claim the deposit was returned and was not your fault. Exactly why WAS the deposit returned?
Anonymous on 06/26/2009:
Why was the check returned? Was it written against a closed account? Were there in sufficient funds in the account it was written against? Was it one of those fraudulent cashier checks schemes?
It seems that the account may have been flagged more due to the nature of the check return then the fact that it wasn't honored.
Anonymous on 06/26/2009:
This could, and will happen most anywhere. It's not your fault, and is unfortunate, but loss by check fraud is huge, and even though it was an innocent error on your part, they won't put themselves at risk of loss.
tnchuck100 on 06/26/2009:
What I think is most atrocious here is the OP paid the $10 returned check fee. Deposited cash and the bank froze the account. As it stands, the bank did not loose on the check and has now "stolen" the OP's cash. They had already eliminated their risk. Now what entitles them to keep the cash? Something definitely stinks here.
hopper14 on 08/18/2009:
" will never really know what your accurate balance is because they take days and days to post items against your account: many of these items are hidden fees and this is most likely by design and meant to catapult you into a nightmare of fees." I couldn't express myself better. This is exactly how I feel about this bank. But, what can you do? Put your money in a tin can in the fridge? I guess I'll try a credit union.
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Citizens Bank's SCAM Operation with Overdraft Fees
Posted by on
PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND -- On Monday evening May 18, 2009, while out of town, I knew I had to get to a computer to add funds to my account as I had several small debits coming in. I knew I had enough to cover 12 out of the 13 incoming debits. I unfortunately never got to a computer to transfer funds. BUT, what I did NOT realize until Tuesday morning is that Citizens “practice” of debiting accounts is NOT, as I thought the smaller debits all paid first, or even as they are posted, BUT “intentionally” from LARGEST debit to smallest. Now, when I called Citizens I was given the canned response that Citizens does this to “help the customer pay for their most important payments first”. WOW! Thanks Citizens for knowing so much about ME and what is important to ME! What a nice company, looking out for their customers… And, YOUR WELCOME for the SEVEN overdrafts which you just profited over $270 on.

And get this, on May 19, 2009 my last 8 debits were all under 10$ but of course didn’t clear because Citizens overdraft system was sure to deplete the funds with all the higher debits FIRST. Resulting in SEVEN $39 overdrafts for debits under $10

Now, such a comment from Citizens is of course nonsense and we all know WHY Citizens has “designed” their overdraft system to post HIGH to LOW. At least while inquiring at Bank of America about they overdraft policy they were honest enough to admit the “real agenda” of banks employing this sleazy tactics was to increase their bottom line with overdraft profits.

And, I am sure it has added a nice revenues increase to your bottom line. But, I must say it is quite shameful that this “hidden tactic” is being employed against Citizens customers. I can assure you if most people were asked about this they would have no idea HOW the overdrafts policy works AGAINST Citizens customers. Unless, they get to read about such a scandalous experience it is pretty much a hidden policy. I am sure it must be buried in the checking account terms and condition in the 3pt font, somewhere on page 5.

And, to top it off before I knew what happened I charged $6.80 for Chinese food, but with Citizens $273 overdraft charges I was as a result $208 negative (because they charged my account and THEY made my account negative), they charged me ANOTHER $39 overdraft fee. Which would have cleared had they not charged my account $273.

The scary issue here is probably 90% of Citizen Bank customers (and other Bank’s customers) are unaware of the details of these seedy overdraft tactics.

I may have to bite the bullet and lose over $300, while I take time to move all my personal business accounts to a more reputable, respectable bank. But as Congress is just now debating the unethical fees being charged by credit card companies, I will do my part to make sure they are aware of, and hopefully also address these unethical “overdraft” practices. Is it illegal? Surprisingly no. Is it disgraceful, immoral, and shameful? Unquestionably!

The days of personal relationships with your banker are OVER. It's just a computer program ready and waiting to suck your account dry with the slightest opportunity.
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Anonymous on 05/22/2009:
This is nothing new. Most banks have been using creative posting technique for years. There is probably a section in your account terms and conditions which states that they can process your transactions in any order they chose. Perhaps you should read it. You'd be surprised at what else you have agreed to let them do.

You made an incorrect assumption when you knowingly overdrew your account and got caught.
madconsumer on 05/22/2009:
you gambled and lost.
msnanny on 05/22/2009:
This same thing will happen everywhere you bank. The only way to prevent it is to not spend more than you have.
yoke on 05/22/2009:
You admitted you did not have enough to cover all the debits and did not get to a computer to put the funds in that were needed. How is that the banks fault?
tnchuck100 on 05/22/2009:
Dump the banks. ALL of the "big boys" reorder transactions for the sole purpose of maximizing fees. Find a credit union. Most process transactions in the order they are received. At least when you do overdraft it is done in a fair manner.

At my credit union they don't even apply an overdraft fee if the overdraft is less than $5.00. Now that is customer appreciation.
BokiBean on 05/22/2009:
That's nice chuck!! My credit union also doesn't stack withdrawals largest to smallest.

nofearman, come over to the credit union side! They're not in it to pick their customer's pockets..
Suusan B. on 05/22/2009:
You knew you had overdrawn your account so you gambled and lost. And you will find you have the same problem no matter where you move your money unless you have overdraft protection in place. No sympathy here . . . .
hopper14 on 08/18/2009:
I agree with the author...Citizens Bank is dedicated to lying and scamming the customer. Hopefully, people will stand up against this business and realize that the only people committing fraud are them! I can't tell you how many times I try to check my account and be the responsible consumer while Citizens decides not to "post" all activity. It's a poor website. Everyone that is saying "you gambled and lost" must be there employee, or have a lot of money in the bank. Yes, credit unions are not this harsh.
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StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty Star
Citizens Bank Are Just Paid Thieves
Posted by on
Rating: 1/51

On February 1, 2013 I wrote a letter to you stating:
I have a checking account with you (xxxxxxxxxx) and in 1 year alone you've charged me over 1500.00 in overdraft charges and sustained overdraft fees. I demand you refund all my fees within 72 hours, not 2 months like last time. As you know Citizens Bank has a class action suit against you for exorbitant fee charges. Please respond immediately. I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx
end of letter from 2/1/13

You chose to do nothing and leave me to be responsible for the charges which is UNACCEPTABLE. I opted out of overdraft coverage MANY TIMES, the most recent being JULY 2013 and Nick [snip] said he would monitor my account to make sure I didn't opt into overdraft coverage which I NEVER did and Nick did not monitor the account as he said he would. Since July 2012, Citizens has charged me over 1500.00 in overdraft fees, what's the point in opting out if you're going to charge me anyway.

One time, recently, Citizens charged me over 100.00 (overdraft and sustained overdraft) for a 1.29 charge to iTunes which put my account in the red be less than. 75 cents. After my last letter of 2/1/13 I finally got a callback 2/7/13 and was told the only solution is put limits on my account. Why should I be penalized for your mistakes. I'm on disability so one overdraft charge of 37.00 is like 137.00 to me. Just because I'm disabled physically doesn't mean I'm disabled mentally. I'm smarter than most people give me credit for, in fact when I graduated college, it was in nursing with High Honors. Not only am I smart but I'm very persistent, particularly when I'm being messed with, like now.

I have tried to deal with just Citizens but now I'm going to send this to the media, and put it in my blog. I'm also going to seek a lawyer regarding this, just because you are a big company with a lot of money doesn't mean you can screw the little guy without ramifications, as the recent class action suit against you proved. Of which you settled to pay 137.5 millions small potatoes when you stole billions from customers. If you think "stole" is too strong of a word think of it like this, if someone came in your bank demanding money, wielding guns and wearing a ski mask, that would be considered stealing, your bank is essentially doing the same thing minus the guns and ski mask.

If your looking for a bank avoid them like the plague and if you already have an acct. w/ them RUN
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trmn8r on 02/26/2013:
If the debit that made the account negative did not result from a one-time purchase, but was a recurring transaction (for example), I believe it would be paid and not be subject to the opt-out.

I monitior my own account do it doesn't go negative, and I get no overdrafts.
clutzycook on 02/26/2013:
Got to agree with 8r. Keep track of your accounts (use an old-fashioned checkbook register if you mush) and you won't have to worry about overdrafts.
JR in Orlando on 02/26/2013:
If a person's bank account runs so close to zero that a $1.29 charge makes it overdrawn, then they should not use a debit card--without keeping a meticulous checkbook register listing ever expenditure. It is fine to not keep track, if you have a big cushion in your account, but to not do it when you are near zero is what causes the problem.

The bank is simply doing what they and you agreed to when you opened the account. It is not the bank fault. The question I have is: If the op has the money to pay $1,500 in late fees, why can't the OP put a cushion of $500.00 in his account and not spend it? That would eliminate most of the problem of overdrafts.
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StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty Star
Stay away from Financing/Refinancing with Citizens Bank Nighmare/Fiasco
Posted by on
Rating: 1/51
BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS -- My husband and I are middle aged citizens and we're trying to refinance our home with my husband working full time and me as a part tine worker were offered by Citizens bank a refinancing option to our current home. Since we maintained accounts with Citizens bank, we trusted their offer and began the loan processing in July, 2012. I've to let the world know that, It was nothing but a nightmare process and now after six months, still they didn't close the loan and we lost the deposit $450.00. Citizens bank's loan dept literally taken us for a ride.

We've submitted all the long list of documents within two weeks of the initial processing. Then started following up...2,4,6,8,12 weeks passed by...After 4 months they started asking the same documents we've submitted earlier...We're helpless and the worst part about this was, there was no explanation from the Citizens bank side, why it took so long for responding and queries and what they were doing with our files...For them, the customer satisfaction has no value in it.

We did not understand how such a huge mistake could have happened. Almost six months later they started requesting the same documents and other list of verification again...we kept on requesting them really humbly to stop this processing fiasco and refund our hard earned $450.00. The Citizens bank simply replied NO...We lost our deposit money as well as 4+ months of reduced monthly mortgage payment. The Citizens bank dragged us to this nightmare went with no remorse or apology. It's hard to imagine such bank can do to the long standing customers.

If you are considering Refinancing/Financing loan with Citizen Mortgage, our humble request to run away from them and don't ended up a prey like us. Please stay away from them for loan purposes.
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