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Bellawood - Lumber Liquidators
Posted by Just want what I paid for on 01/11/2009
Several hours into installation of first purchased floor contractor noticed lines were not lining up. Turns out widths of boards varied as much as 1/3 inch on same board. Other individual boards were out of sync with rest of flooring at a rate of more than a third of the pieces. Many phone calls, and a week later [delaying whole project schedule], and $1000 to contractor- replacement floor showed up [partial shipment] and the ends of the flooring[had to settle for different style] in this shipment were so chipped the contractor wouldn't install with out a signed release of responsibility from us..At this point L. Liquidators refused to pick up floor and issue a refund because we refused delivery of second portion of 2nd defective floor. We bought a beautiful Mercier floor from a local co. and 2 days later it was in[$4000 more for this floor and more wasted time fees for contractor. LUMBER LIQUIDATOR stopped talking to us at that point and we filed a complaint with credit card company to withhold payment. 2-3 months later credit card co. notified us that LUMBER LIQUIDATORS maintained we had the floor for so long they could not be sure of it's condition. Final answer. Out of credit card company hands so we had to pay to protect our credit. $4000 floor now in original boxes in my barn.

Entire construction project ended up delayed. Maybe I can redo the barn floor with it. It was an internet purchase or I would've parked in front of LUMBER LIQUIDATOR STORE. NEVER originally wanted anything but what I paid for.
     
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Posted by MoeGlo on 2009-01-11:
I recently received a sale flyer (booklet) from LL. Thank you all for taking the time to write your review. Since reading your reviews, I have tossed my flyer. If I ever considered buying from LL, your reviews have changed my mind. Thanks from a fellow consumer.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-01-11:
Why do you think they call themselves Lumber Liquidators? It's like buying shoes from an outlet store.
Posted by MoeGlo on 2009-01-11:
Point taken, however, a company like this should be selling overstocks, not garbage.
Posted by just want what I paid for on 2009-01-29:
Posted by just want what I paid for on 2009-01-29:
I take Passingby's point even though Lumber Liquidater's doesn't advertise as selling seconds or rejects.[To be fair,They actually state somewhere in their fine print that they will not be responsable for up to 5% defective material. It was the 1st thing the customer rep. said when I called.]I had ordered enough overdsock to cover that. My floor was running over 1/3 USELESS. There is a reasonable expectation on a consumer's part that a company of LL's size will deliver a product thst can be used as expected at purchase.i didn;t buy this off the back of a truck.
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Does not honor warranty
Posted by Mandafrye on 03/10/2012
FORT WORTH, TEXAS -- In 2008 we made an addition to our house. We had seen the adds for Lumber Liquidators on your network and chose the Bellawood Brazilian mesquite. The installer did a superb job and the floor looked beautiful until we began moving in. Every piece of furniture we placed on the floor scratched the surface and the scratches could not be polished out. Dents and scratches began showing up in places where there was no traffic. After two years the beautiful cherry wood red stain began turning honey gold every where the sun hit the floor. Now we have a two tone floor.

When I contacted Lumber Liquidators they forwarded we to Bellawood. The Bellawood representative informed me that I had to send in pictures. Apparently they do not do on site inspections. They denied any and all claims for warranty resolution. They said they were not responsible for fading or scratches. What good is a 100 year warranty if it does not cover anything? I tell all my friends to stay away from Lumber Liquidators and Bellawood products. Since our problems I have researched other reviews and found that our experience is not exceptional. Rather it seems to be rather normal. In addition when the flooring was installed we had better than 15% waste. That added significantly to the cost.
     
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Posted by dan gordon on 2012-03-10:
I was in hardwood flooring for many yrs. 100 yr warrantys are applicable for you walking thru the finish down to bare wood. Now you know that most warrantys are purely marketing. Brazillian Cherry radically changes color more than other wood. Scratches, dents and dings are not mfctg warrantied. The good news is you can recoat your floor without resanding but it won't help the color changes. A little bit of research would have helped you perhaps choose another species. LL is not known for customer service, just cheap prices.
Posted by BigAl on 2012-03-10:
I could see where you would have a problem with Bellawood but why would Lumber Liquidators be at fault here?
Posted by dan gordon on 2012-03-10:
bellawood is the house brand for LL.
Posted by face it on 2012-03-14:
Instead of pointing out things wrong with your review I would very much like to thank you for bringing this tot he attention of anyone reading these reviews. It is true that the warranty is nothing more than a marketing tool. But as you have seen, it is worthless in regards to your lasting satisfaction of the product. Maybe they should advertise "once we have your money, screw you" that is if there is any truth to advertising.
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Lumber Liquidators does not care about you.
Posted by Continuance on 08/16/2009
NEW JERSEY -- My apologies for some extraneous details, but this is copied from my blog post on the matter, (and the intro does help visualize the timeline):

last Thursday, my mother was down in my neighborhood because we needed to pick up some things from home depot. we wanted to schedule the delivery for my bathroom vanity, medicine cabinet, and tile for kitchen and foyer for this past Monday, but the REALLY jerky guy told us we had to call at 7am on Monday if we wanted a specific time because that's when the guy makes his delivery schedule. ok. lumber liquidators (from here on, LL) told us they'd be delivering on that same Monday between 9 and 10am as well. we thought, great, let's get two deliveries over with on the same day. my mom then took off of work Monday so we could be there to receive the deliveries and do some stuff.

my brother was still here over the weekend, so we dropped him off at the train station Sunday afternoon. when we got home, my mom just randomly decided to check her work voicemail just in case, and she found that LL had called and left her a message saying they couldn't deliver on Monday. who calls someone's work phone when they have their home phone number AND their cell phone to tell them such a vital piece of info? so my mom is trying to call them back like crazy, but of course LL is closed on Sunday.

so Monday morning, I'm asleep, and my mom comes busting into my room yelling, "15 minutes! we have to go now!" and I'm like huh? so I leap out of bed and get dressed, and she's yelling from her room: "i just called Home Depot and they said they're ON THE WAY! we have to go!" double huh?? since my mom's house is an hour (minimum) away from mine. she called at 7am like she was supposed to, and they told her they were going to deliver whether we were there or not. she told them that if they left it without our signatures then they'd be liable for it, so deliver at their own risk. they said they'd call us back.

meanwhile, she calls LL to see what the hell is going on, and she speaks to this guy J who tells her that the delivery company told him that 3 out of their 4 trucks are broken down, so they can't deliver. she inquires as to how a major company can have only 4 trucks running, and how no one could let us know this before the day of. she decides to call the delivery company directly, just because it seems fishy. she speaks to the delivery guy, who says that their trucks are fine, and that J never called him until that morning to arrange delivery, so they couldn't fit us in!

arg!! so call back to LL, and conveniently J is not available to speak to. so after a huge fiasco, LL says that they will deliver on Tuesday morning at 10am.

i wake up Tuesday at 8:30, and my mom says, "i didn't wake you up because they called and said they can't get there til 11:30." guhhhh. so I got down to the house at 11:30, and huh. they weren't there! 12:30 rolls by and still no delivery. I call my mom and say what the heck, they're not here! so she said if they weren't there at 1pm, to call her back. whaddya know, not there. very long story shorter, they arrived at 5:00. I blew a WHOLE DAY waiting around for them to show up.

so Wednesday, the guys came (the flooring dudes), and started installing. {the part I left out was that the floor I picked came in first quality and in odd lot. we asked the difference (since there was a large price difference), and J said, "oh yeah, I installed an odd lot bellawood in my own house. it's just the leftovers from the manufacturer. you'll just get like 3-5 damaged pieces of wood per box. nothing to worry about, just buy 10% extra."}

so yesterday the flooring guys called and said, yeah, we can't finish installing this floor. what's the problem, we ask? they said that out of 14 boxes of wood, only 7 were useable. !!!

J made himself completely unavailable and the customer service woman stopped responding to our emails after a while, so my mom looked up the names of the CEO, the person who was in charge of sales, and a few other important individuals and emailed them DIRECTLY. what do you know - she received an email back 5 minutes later from someone, and they promised to call her at 10am the next morning to rectify this issue. they did: LL agreed to replace the damaged boxes with premium wood for our trouble. we paid the odd lot price for it, and they made sure it was shipped THE NEXT POSSIBLE DAY.

the floors look amazing, but I would never buy anything from LL again, not even for their great prices. it's just not worth it.
Read Company Response
Company Response on 11/12/2009:
This does not sound like a good transaction and the delivery service failed our customer, and LL in this case. I would need more specific information pertaining to who was contacted in order to determine where the breakdown in communication took place. It takes people to run our business and not everyone has the same sense of urgency, but we obviously took responsibility in this case, so at least we recognized the troubles associated with the transaction and we sincerely apologize that your transaction became problematic. Our customer care 800 number can be found on every invoice. Our team will handle any matters raised to our attention right up to the Customer Care Manager - That would be me! We can only hope you reconsider coming back to LL becuase I seriuosly doubt this would be a situation repeated or I would literally have to spend my entire day responding and addressing this type of issue and that's not the case. Our apologies - I'm sure you received an excellent product at a GREAT PRICE!
     
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Posted by dan gordon on 2009-08-16:
a simple google search would have shown you hundreds of unhappy LL customers. Writing a novel won't help get you better service.
Posted by Anonymous on 2009-08-16:
Being as they are liquidators, I wouldn't expect too much satisfaction with product or delivery.
Posted by Nobel on 2010-03-03:
I concure every things that has been described here. Please review similar experince in my posting March 3, 2010. An absolute disaster. I believe Bellawood/ll is a crininal organization selling junks and rejects to non-professional home ownerswho make an assumption that LL has been in business long enough to understand a good Customer Relationship. DO NOT EVEN COME NEAR ANY LUMBER LIQUIDATOR STORE ANYWHARE IN THE US> THE SEND THESE JUNKY PRODUCT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY UNTIL AN UNSUSPECTING CUSTOMER TAKE THE BATE. YUGH!
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Awful Customer Service
Posted by Kellim on 01/20/2011
After spending close to $10k on our floors, they quickly detoriated to 'cupping' and actually splitting in half!! After numerous attempts to lumber Liquidators customer service, I was totally brushed off and they even accused me that I caused the problem!! Not the case, I used an installer that the local Austin shop recommended. Their final communication to me was so tasteless. We need to ensure that this company no longer does business. This company must own up to their responsibilities and represent themselves with some dignity. Is there a class action law suit we all can participate?
Read Company Response
Company Response on 01/21/2011:
Cupping issues are noted on our Customer Care website under FAQ number 4 as follows:

Why does my floor look wavy / why is it buckling?
A wavy or washboard looking floor indicates a condition called cupping. Cupping is caused by a moisture imbalance between the bottom and top of the boards. Even modest amounts of moisture intrusion will cause board edges to swell, which will be seen as cupping. Buckling is caused by the boards gaining moisture and expanding without a proper expansion space thereby causing the boards to "tent." Both conditions are site related or evidence of improper installation

Our processes do not allow customers to be "brushed off". Whether you spent $10 or $10,000 on flooring does not matter when it comes to cupping issues and the fact that you hired a professional installer would suggest this posting should be directed to the installer, not LL. The product was not at fault and the recommendations provided are never presented in a "tasteless" manner. If the products defective in any way we'll never hesitate to hold a manufacturer accountable, but you can bet we're not going to fork over $10,000 in flooring for installation errors, or site related errors outside our direct control and no seller should be expected to incur costs unrelated to an actual defect. We certainly regret to hear this happened as we want every purchase to end up installed properly to showcase your home, and our flooring products. There are some ways to help settle the floor and we provide this information to you and it would when a floor has been determined to be "cupped", but it would be best to hire an independent inspection company to determine fault. LL does not commission such inspections for cupped floors because we know they are not tied to the manufacture of the product, which is why we do our best to educate the customer with the information we sent to you explaining this condition using National Wood Flooring Association information and other information provided to educate consumers on this condition.

We certainly understand your frustration and wish the outcome was a perfect floor like it should be when hiring a professional, or properly maintaining temperature and relative humidity for a sound floor.
     
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Posted by saj80 on 2011-01-21:
Very good answer, dan. I still don't understand why consumers want to blame retailers for issues related to the manufacturer, but perhaps it's because the retailers aren't some faceless organization.
Posted by kellim on 2011-01-21:
I understand it could be an installer's fault in a cupping situation; however, Lumber Liquidators recommended this professional installer. Unfortunately, I assumed that LL only recommended the best. And why were we not told of a "moisture barrier" when we purchased the hardwood floors from LL? To me that is lack of buyer beware. Are we to accept this type of business practice now?
Posted by face it on 2011-01-23:
Kellim you are not alone. There are many many customers that have had similar issues. The problem lies int he fact that once you have paid your money to lumber liquidators you have no recourse other than to hire a lawyer. But the cover themselves by quoting installation guidelines that should have been told to you before the installation regardless of who installed it. There typical response is to push the problem of on the installer! Please tell everyone you know about your experience. Lets join together and put these lying jokers out of business!!
Posted by madconsumer on 2011-01-23:
the company response is very good info!!
Posted by face it on 2011-01-24:
Could the installer been at fault? possible. The fact is, and I feel this is most important to this "case" is that Lumber Liquidators uses a company called the home service store to offer installation services. The basic break down is the home service store charges the installer 15% of the profit from all installation projects. And naturally Lumber Liquidators profits from the material sales. If the installer does not know the proper procedures for installation then if there is a problem 100% of the burden is placed on the installer to fix or pay out of pocket to replace the project. The home service store and/or lumber liquidators do nothing. the point of having an installation service ( HSS ) is to help insure that the installer is certified and knows all the proper installation techniques. However, as you can plainly see, the only criteria for becoming an installer with HSS is that you have a decent credit score and a relatively clean background. It has nothing to do with the fact that the installer has product related knowledge. The agreement the installer must sign to join there program states that if they ever have to go to court the installer must provide $10,000.00 to hss's attorneys on behalf of hss. plus all court costs and fee's. So you got the home service store (hss ) and lumber liquidators ( LLI ) profiting from these situations and if ever there is a problem the burden is 100% pushed off on the installer ( who averages $30,000 a year +/-) Should the installer step up and do all they can to makes things right? absolutely. if replacement of the floor is inevitable should the installer be 100% responsible for it? absolutely not!!
Posted by face it on 2011-01-29:
FYI for any potential customers of Lumber Liquidators. I have installed product for them for over 10 years. I have seen all aspects of how they operate. One customer had ordered approximately $8,000 worth of product. they where told it would take 2 weeks to get there. when in all actuality it was already there in the warehouse. then the manager calls demanding that I deliver it to the customer or he was going to charge them more for storage! countless times the manager decided to change the material list to benefit his sales quota for the month! and then the customer is left with material they do not need, or worse yet the proper material was not ordered delaying the job. One customer purchased natural grade American walnut, when the installation was scheduled they went out of town to avoid the "mess" of installation and demo work. But the material they ordered was full of knots and splits! and the order had to be returned and reorder and the installation rescheduled. this are just a few things of the top of the list. The customer holds no clout after there money has been paid. Case in point is simply that this company is out to benefit themselves and them alone. they do not care who they trouble in there money making pursuits. How they get away with there disturbing practises is beyond me. They simply need to be closed down.
Posted by face it on 2011-02-07:
Regardless of what the company response says it is simply the fact that the customer was put through this. Of course the company is going to say " it wasn't our fault" but the fact that they did respond simply shows there guilt. case closed.
Posted by bonfire on 2011-02-25:
We are looking for laminate for our new construction home. I have looked at a couple of products on-line and had plans to check out the product at the store. However, after reading several of the reviews especially from an installer, I think we will pass and go with Lowes or Home Depot. Thanks for all of your reviews.
Posted by The Home Service Store on 2011-03-16:
The Home Service Store maintains a nationwide network of top-quality local contractors in a wide variety of home improvement disciplines. To maintain their affiliation with HSS, that contractor must uphold the highest customer service standards and occasionally, we must remove an incompatible contractor from our network. Over the years, we have worked with thousands of independent local contractors, product manufacturers and elite retailers to develop one of the nation’s best, no hassle home improvement solutions.
Supplied with only an internet user name, it is very difficult to identify who someone is, and the specific nature of their grievance. We can only extend an invitation to call us directly and discuss how they have been disserved by our efforts to provide our customers with the very best in customer service.
Posted by face it on 2011-03-17:
The home service store is a company that takes advantage of hard working people. Of course they are going to comment that they are superior and without fault.They take 15% from each job (18% if job is paid by lumber liquidators credit card)and if there is a problem with the job they make a laughable effort to correct issues by doing a 3way call between themselves the customer and the contractor. There position in these scenarios is completely unnecessary and there position is simply to take profit from hard working contractors and they serve no actual purpose other than to further complicate relationships between contractor and customer. Also factor in that with them in the mix the price has to be higher to allow for the grossly large percentage they demand. Proof is in simply conducting business with them, if you dare.
Posted by Ken James on 2011-07-04:
An alternative would be for the seller of the product to also perform the installation. When this is not done it is easy to ALWAYS fault the installer. Why does not Lumber Liquidators install their own product? I have the same problem (not with this company) where I used an installer with over 25 years experience and he has removed and installed the floor twice to no avail. I am out almost $5,000. It is far too easy to blame the installer when there are no obvious problems with the sub surface. There are just too many unethical companies and people in this world. Period.
Posted by Orchidmoon on 2012-07-26:
I've had my Bellawood Braxillian Koa floors in for one month, and places I have rugs are so much lighter than the floors, it makes me sick. LL calls it patina...I call is BS.....if there is such an issue, there should be a warning on every page on LL on the floors that will patina...I didn't pay $4000 for floors to lighten, if I wanted lighter colored floors, I would of purchased lighter floors...the thing that gets me is when I wrote to Bellawood, they sent my email to LL, LL is oney the retailer,not the manufacturer......I'm thinking of geting a lawyer or hopefully finding a class action lawsuit against LL....and the customeservice guy at LL asked me, "why would you put rugs on your new floors"...show me a house with wood floors that doesn't have rugs? Everytime I think about my floors it makes me sick...
Posted by annonomous on 2013-05-16:
hey Orchidmoon
Your floors didnt get lighter...The surrounding floors got darker. If you move the rug the area that was under it will catch up with the rest of the floor all Natural wood that is unstained will get darker over time So calm down and just move the rugs untill its done getting darker.
Posted by longchau on 2013-06-09:
I been reading all these complaint for months now. Anyone know how or can we spread out these complaint in an email format to our friends and families. We need to let more people read these complaints . Mass email to everyone on your email list. I believe this will spread out much faster and more sufficient.
Posted by pitkingirl on 2013-06-13:
I had Bellawood Brazilian Cherry installed 3 months ago through Lumber Liquidators installers. I have at least 25 boards in the living room that have "checks" or downright cracks that are 3"-8" long. I went thru the process of filing a claim and the result is the installer offering to replace some of the boards. At this point I don't know what to do. Have the boards cut out and glued in or call my attorney. Any help out there?
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San Diego Lumber Liquidators - Horrible Quality - Rip Off!
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 07/07/2010
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA -- I ordered 1800 SF of Brazilian Teak manufactured by Bellwood for Lumber Liquidators. What a nightmare! Several boxes arrived damaged upon delivery. The delivery person noted on the paperwork boxes were ripped open, damaged and discolored from other boxes. After not hearing from the store about the damaged boxes delivered I called the store directly and spoke with store manager Mike. I expressed my concerns and he assured me the boxes would be fine and I should have no worries about the installation of those boxes. When my installers arrived for the install (after the boxes had acclimated for three weeks) they too pointed out that several boxes looked beat up and odd. I told them I already called the store and they would be fine. They opened those three boxes along with seven others and sorted them by color variation, size, and proceeded with the install. After laying many of the boxes they expressed they were having constant issues with gaps in the boards. They pointed out that the boards had two separate kinds of milling and it was causing major problems. The problem was the actual width of boards were very different and so were the tongues. They suggested I contact the store and let them know so I can return them and reorder new boxes all from the same milling. I called the store and spoke to Ricky. He told me to bring in some sample boards.

The next day I brought in several boards demonstrating the boards varying width and completely different tongues. I could tell Mike the manager did not want to admit that they were from different mills but it was impossible to deny. He would just make comments like " a good installer would know how to deal with something like this" and "They can be altered by your installer to work" I pointed out that would cause additional labor I would have to pay for and I should not have to pay more money to deal with milling issues. He then said that he could send out his own installer (Brian). He said he would be able to make them work just fine. As I had nothing to lose I agreed.

Later that day a woman called and said she spoke to Mike and her company would come by to look at the floors. Several hour later a knock at my door and its a woman "Sarah" She said she was there to look that the floors. I told her I thought a Brian was coming to look at them as he is the installer. She said she was his wife. I showed her the boards and how they were all different. She just seemed oddly quiet. She obviously knew they were messed up but didn't want to say anything other than "don't worry we can fix everything". I pointed out the many rows that would have to get ripped up. She said that the three boxes that were mixed up with the others could be dealt with by "sorting them back out and putting them in the same rows". That sounded fine but she said I would have to remove what was already laid down and also order replacement boxes. She also said they would only glue down the wood. I told her as long as the price was the same that would be fine. She said Mike the manager would probably replace the boxes that caused the issue. I told her I would speak to Mike and let her know. I showed her my current installer invoice (3.00 square foot) and told her as long as she matched that I would go with them. She said she would match my installers and email me the estimate.

The next day the email comes. Guess what? they wanted 2500 more than my current installers. Not only that the glue was an additional 1200 more. So they wanted 3700 more than my current installer!! She had the square footage at 3.00 but had the stairs priced out separately and also wanted 1,000 more to level the floors for glue down process. Obviously I was not going to go with them and she never said the glue material alone would cost so much! I called Mike and said I'm just going to go with my installer and lm going to return the unopened boxes and reorder the same thing. I even agreed to upgrade the wood to 3/4 inch thick from 3/8 inch thick since they had the same teak in a smaller width but for a similar price. He said to bring them in and I would reorder them.

After renting a uhual and breaking my back getting the boxes back to the store the manager said that I had ten boxes missing. I told him that three boxes had milling issues which screwed up the other 7 laid down. I told him about how I called when they arrived and was assured they were o. k. I explained yet again that those three boxes installed with the other 7 were mixed and rendered useless and they had to now get ripped up. Mike said he would only credit me for the three boxes that had the wrong milling. He did not want to recognize that those boxes caused the others to be useless.

Trying not to loss my cool I told him I wanted to focus on getting the replacement material (2 1/4 teak) that is listed on the website because its a a similar price. Guess What. The replacement material was not available. The only option he said I had was to pay for an even more expensive (3.25 teak). I told him I didn't even want that as I have a 1915 craftsman and I was not comfortable going with such a large width. Additionally that the cost was more more expensive price per square foot (3500 more!). I already was in the hole 7 boxes he would not credit, installation costs that were wasted, renting a truck for the return, and cost to rip out the crap that was down. Now he was telling me my only option was to pay 3500 more!!! It was obvious I was getting nowhere with him. He had no compassion to the situation and just seemed to generally not get how I was put in a situation not of my choosing. Lets not forget this entire nightmare was brought about by having different milling mixed in with my order. Since they no longer had any replacement material at similar cost ( 2 1/4) . Even though the website says the do. I requested to just have the unopened boxes I just returned credited to my card. I said I would have to eat the 7 boxes and just order them somewhere else since the only option extended to me was to buy more expensive teak. This SOB had the nerve to tell me that he would "not give me my money back" . He said he "was not convinced it was a milling issue" Are you freaking kidding me!!!!! I was just speechless. To think I would have to take the hit on all of this. Its like I had a gun to my head. I told him I since I was left with no alternative I had no choice but to pay an additional 3500.00 and order the teak in 3.25.

I left the store feeling sick to my stomach. Like I had been mugged. Its just sad when you feel so completely taken advantage of and have absolutely no power to make the store take responsibility. All I can do is share my story and let others know of my horrible experience. Hopefully it will make you reconsider and purchase elsewhere. As a realtor I am constantly asked for referrals on everything from kitchen cabinets to floors. I used to always recommend Loews or Home Depot as they guarantee the work and generally my clients were very happy withe them. Looks like I should have taken my own advice. I only went with Lumber Liquidators because the teak they had looked so nice in the store. I will let every client know my experience at Lumber Liquidators. Word of mouth is a powerful thing.

I will let you guys know how the final install goes when the new material arrives.
Read Company Response
Company Response on 07/11/2010:
Contact LL Customer Care immediately and provide us with your contact information so we can assist you. Most likely the whole issues driven by mixing two mills causing the gapping at the time of install. If we can obtain enough information to verify this event a claim will be filed and we will take care of this problem with replacement material, and other expenses necessary to make this project right. This is not a common problem and most likely an accidental event caused by the warehouse, but it can be fixed and we're here to help. This obviously caused an unfortunate chain of events and we regret to hear you suffered a set back. We will take action once you contact CC using the 800 number on our website. Alert the answering agent and advise them you received contact from the LL Dir. of Customer Care and ask for me and I will see to it that the right resources are applied to this issue for further investigation and correction. Thank you for sharing this experience so we can make it right. We are making some significant system changes within our warehouses to avoid this in the future and know this can be frustrating and we'll make it right.
     
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Posted by Helpful on 2010-07-08:
Well written review. Keep us informed.
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-07-11:
I will give you a call tomorrow.
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-07-12:
I have left lumber Liquidators a message today. I am waiting for a call back from Brian. I will keep everyone posted to how this is resolved.
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-07-12:
Brian never returned the call.
Posted by jktshff1 on 2010-07-12:
give him a day or so. keep us posted
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-07-15:
3 days and no return call from "Brian". I'm thinking they just didn't like me letting the public know of my horrible experience and they were trying to make it appear as if they were trying to resolve my problem( with no intentions to actually do anything). Im pretty speechless.

Also, not sure of others experiences about when they call up CS but It was really odd when I called them. I explained to the agent who answered the phone that I was contacted by the Director of Customer Care and was asked to call in for the individual to assist in resolving my milling issue. She asked what the persons name was that contacted me. I let her know the person did not indicate a name only a position in the company. I read her the message posted online and she said that it must be "Brian". I asked her for Brian's email so I could follow up and she said company policy is that they don't give it out. I then asked for a contact number for him. Same answer. I asked what Brian's last name was at least. She said they don't even give out last names. I cant believe I spent 14,000.00 at. this place. Unbelievable.
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-07-15:
Still no call. Left a message for Brian again.
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-07-20:
Got a hold of Brian. He is working with me now to resolve the problem. Seems open to resolving this honestly. Still hesistant given all the posts I have read. The local store is now trying to use an installer issue angle but that's never going to work when I physically have boards of different milling width to prove its the cause. I will keep you guys posted to the outcome.
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-08-02:
Just got a really rude email from them. It came from a different person than the contact I have been working with. Looks like they are pulling the classic "its an installation issue" angle. I will keep you all posted to how this nightmare resolves...
Posted by SanDiegoRealtor on 2010-08-16:
So far this has not been resolved. The store has only credited my for the unopened boxes. I have 2500.00 that I am still waiting to get a credit on for the defective material that was attempted by my installers and had to be ripped up. I am looking at several options should corporate not refund me by tomorrow. I will keep you all posted.
Posted by face it on 2010-09-09:
hello sandiego. I am truly sorry for your problems with Lumber Liquidators (LLI) I am also sorry to say that I can offer no words of comfort to your issue. I have installed material from LLI for over 12 years now. I have seen a steady decline in product quality. The main issue 10-12 years ago was that it took too long for orders to arrive after the order being placed. The main problem now is that LLI has gone public or corporate and there quality and customer service has suffered greatly due to there "growth". There classic response is "it's an installation issue" just as you stated in your above comment. It has been my experience that LLI will put off a customer and not return calls in hope that they will go away. I have personally witnessed this countless times. The only time I have ever seen a customer actually get a satisfactory resolve to there issue is to take them to court, which in the long run obviously cost you more. I believe in old world customer service. You deal with one individual in person, not a slew of different people several states away from you. And is the sum of the reason I no longer endorse lumber liquidators and there product.
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Avoid odd lots
Posted by Face it on 10/17/2010
what they claim to be a natural grade
what they claim to be a natural grade "quality" product
WEST CHESTER, OHIO -- In the lumber milling industry there is a condition known as seconds. Which basically means the wood product produced does not meat quality standards ( has knots, splits, bad cosmetic flaws, etc.) any reputable company would not sell these products at any cost. But lumber Liquidators sells these materials stating that they are usable but ask that you increase the waste value from industry standard of 5% to as much as 30%! I am sure that some corporate yuppie with there name printed on a pay check from Lumber Liquidators finds this to be rather amusing. But the customer that purchases these products and is stuck with a bunch of unusable product that they had to pay real money for is not amused at all. The store managers I have dealt with have absolutely no product knowledge. They will tell customers "sure save yourself some money and buy these odd lots" making the customer believe they got a deal. With out going into a long drawn out explanation of how and why, this is simply a very poor business practise. They are dishonest, rude, and have absolutely no concern for there customers welfare. I have installed Lumber Liquidators products for around 12 years now. At first I was totally sold on them, then as the years went by there quality went further and further down hill. I have seen countless times the customer is left holding the bag, or they push claims off on the installer calling any issues an "installation issue" I honestly have to admit that I nor anyone else is perfect, and we do make mistakes. But My installation company is based on truly professional values, and I would simply expect them to stand up and take responsibility for there shotty product instead of pushing it off on the people out there making a living offering customers a legitimate service that would have been a positive experience for all involved had liquidators not supplied bad product.

Why would I take the time to write a review like this? What do I have to gain from this? The truth is I sincerely hope that any future customers of Liquidators read this and the many many other complaints against them on the Internet and decide to shop somewhere else, and that liquidators is finally held liable for the many many "dirty deals" they have made and they are forced to close there doors. I am completely in support of any and all reputable businesses out there that stand behind what they offer, but time has come for something to be done about these pirates!! our country is in bad enough shape, we do not need crooks like this nibbling away at the fabric of respectable businesses and ruining the reputation of other hardworking people in this industry that do not deserve to be labeled "thieves" simply because they work in the same profession as this so called company.
I have personally seen issues ranging from blackmail, illegal kick backs, corporate cover ups, lies after lies, discrimination, I could go on and on but I sure you see my point. How can they continue to get away with this? We as customers or even employees need to make a stand and demand they take responsibility for there actions.
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Company Response on 03/18/2011:
LL Response:
We've addressed this concern already. We sell odd lot material in addition to products brand new in the box and top of the line like Bellawood. We clearly disclaim what you're buying so you can plan your project accordingly, but we also have people making positive comments receiving a product they could not have otherwise afforded, so it goes back to ones individual expectations and it's our goal to offer the public choices. The other issues you raise here come off as a disgruntled former installer / employee. Craftsmanship has many varying degrees and most installations go off without a hitch, but some of your comments would suggest you may need to review the quality of your work. Our folks are well educated on flooring, in fact I can watch incoming calls into our call center and see them coming from competitors asking LL questions about flooring related topics / advice, so your opinions are noted, but not supported with facts. The idea that our employees engage in unprofessional behavior is an allegation considered an irresponsible act If you have a concern, write our legal department and they will investigate, but this sounds like more rambling and I'm not sure this posting truly represents the professional values you claim to uphold with your company. I can answer your question about why you would write such a review. It would appear you have time because your not promoting your own business, which is a better use of your time. We all take great pride in what we do offering quality products, low prices, and excellent wood flooring knowledge to those who have a need. We wish you all the best in your business, but this is not a place to present your personal gripes and you could use your time wisely by searching on line marketing tools for your business. Our web site is known for having the best educational tools for flooring installation related topics and techniques. Good luck and thanks for listening.
     
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Posted by Alain on 2010-10-18:
If you're buying lumber at a place that has "liquidators' in their name, I'd say they are giving you fair warning that the product is not going to be as good as a graded product from a lumber yard. The products sold there are cheap because other consumers did not want to use it.
Posted by Inat on 2010-10-18:
with any bulk product like wodo flooring or ceramic tile, there is waste. Each time I open a new pack of tile, there is invariably one broken tile - that is the 5% waste that you use when calculating materials. LL is cheap and they tell you beforehad that you will have 30% waste. If you dont, you got lucky :)
Posted by neakybird on 2010-12-30:
Response to Alain, this is a direct quote from a LL response to a complaint previous to this one.
"LL is not an outlet for substandard flooring. We sell brand new top of the line products and offer some close out items as well, so you can buy products with a great warranty, or go the less expensive route and get an odd lot at a really discounted price you may not find anywhere else." By this statement they would obviously disagree with your statement themselves.
Posted by Paul on 2011-08-08:
I am shocked that that response came from a Lumber Liquidator employee... If that comment came from an employee of mine in a professional customer service environment, he or she would be immediately let go..... Shame on you. Perhaps the best choice, if the author was a true professional, would have been apologetic and sympathetic and tried to correct the wrong. Especially during these difficult economic times. This is exactly why companies go out of business every day! Crap customer service! What ever happened to the customer is ALWAYS right. I guess LL has so many customers, they can turn them away.. To be honest, I came across this posting due to researching their company and to see how reputable they are. Boy am I glad I did. Just for that posting, it cost a customer... goodbye 1900SqFt of 3/4 Bellawood...
Posted by Carole on 2013-06-17:
Just reviewing before buying product. The responses to the complaints sound like a recording, the product is always 100% quality and all of the installers are at fault. Customer Service is a number 1 priority in my book, I purchase items that have a great warranty but I am going to rethink any type of wood flooring, maybe refinishing my 60 year old wood flooring is not so bad after all.
Posted by Ben on 2013-08-13:
I'm a DIY. I am going to order 1200sf of LL's solid maple odd lot. To me $2.66 plus 30% waste is still a super sweet deal. Waste doesn't mean I have to through away the whole plank. I can still use the left overs for closet, under the bed etc. For me this is a cheaper way to get my hands full and save money. For high end customer and professionals, I can foresee the potential customer recalls. I believe it depends. You get what you paid for. So as professional you have to state the risk in your contract. So tell your customer the worse scenario and then go sign the contract to take the risk. When you got hid it is too late. Before came to the US I grew up from a culture that has no return policy when you leave the door. So I check everywhere and see as many as samples as possible and then I place the order and I'll take what ever it takes. Don't hold yourself back. Estimate, control and take the risk is the spirit of the US. If the market goes to the other direction, then just adapt yourself and follow. If it doesn't look right, go fight. Settle arguments in a peaceful way is one of the good thing I learned from the US history. I admire the founding fathers of US. Let's keep the spirit.
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Bellawood KOA - WAAAAAY Sub-Par Product
Posted by Bucketdb on 10/16/2010
We decided to lay Bellawood Koa wood in our bedroom, as we'd put it in the rest of the house 5 years ago and have been very happy with it.
So, we purchased the wood and the LL website (and we called both a store and customer service to confirm this) stated that the "odd lots" were perfectly useable wood, but to expect "up to" 30% waste. Okay, so just in case we allowed for 50% waste and ordered about 110% more wood than we needed, hoping to use it for another project.

Well the wood we got was total crap! It was almost totally unusable! The contractors were at their wits' end - the wood was about 85% crap, totally useless, and the wood that was usable was all in 12" lengths! This wood was all uneven, wasn't finished, wasn't coated with acrylic, was not suitable to be used for anything!!
     
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Posted by face it on 2010-10-17:
what would you call a company that sells product like this? Basically product that should have been thrown out or recycled to make plywood or toilet paper! but instead they fatten there wallets by passing it on to there customers who pay real money for this junk. Do we need a company like this out there further corrupting an already turmoiled economy? I think not!
Posted by getoverit on 2010-10-17:
They've had a fair number of complaints on this site and sound like a pretty downscale operation. I would think that if they are openly telling people that the odd lots are of inconsistent quality, it would be wise to buy with caution.
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StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty Star
Now I Understand Why Lumber Liquidators Has So Few Good Reviews
Posted by Voscott on 04/13/2013
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA -- I recently referred a friend to Lumber Liquidators because I had purchased some bamboo from them years ago and had a good experience.

My friend purchased thousands of square feet of the Bellawood 3/4" Maple flooring in advance of her remodel so that it was in home and had time to acclimatize before being installed. Her home is perfectly dry without any water intrusion whatsoever. The boxes were unopened and in perfect condition. She purchased the flooring well enough in advance to insure the flooring was in pocket for installation. Of course, more than 30 days passes before she has a very reputable San Francisco flooring company begin installing her new flooring. After installing only 70 square feet, it becomes glaringly visible that the flooring is warped, scratched and not milled to 5" widths thus leaving gaps between the planks.

To add insult to injury the Lumber Liquidators personnel advised her that she needed an acoustical underlay for her nail down 3/4" floor. The professional installer informed her that this was not prudent advice and it wasn't needed.

As per most of your experience, Lumber Liquidators abhorrent customer service hit her on the head like a ton of garbage wood flooring.

"You're outside of the 30 day refund/warranty period". "We'll get back to you". "Bring it back to the store for review". "We'll send you a warranty form to fill out and we might exchange the flooring". "Let's lay the flooring out on the sidewalk to look at because I cannot bring it inside the store".

Her entire home renovation is now on hold with no bedroom, kitchen or living room for herself or her young child.

How do you think Lumber Liquidators will resolve this clear issue of defective merchandise? Do you think that Lumber Liquidators will do the right thing and refund her money and compensate her for the installers labor for the 70 square feet installed?

Tune in for "the rest of the story" on how an ethical company does business.

     
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Posted by yoke on 2013-04-14:
LL is a DISCOUNT floor company. It does not sell the quality of flooring that companies that sell floors do. LL makes it quiet clear. If you want hi end flooring LL is not for you.
Most of the complaints I have seen on this site are from customers that expected hi end flooring for a discount price.
The person was beyond the 30 day warranty and LL is under no obligation to do anything, but are willing to help.
Posted by ok4now on 2013-04-14:
I recently purchased hardwood flooring from Avalon Carpet & Tile. This is a huge retail store that has a tremendous selection of products. The sales staff spent hours with me and provided samples to take home. I purchased first quality hardwood on sale and was not looking for the cheapest price. My carpenter/installer was equally impressed with the quality. Out of sixteen boxes purchased not one board was warped, damaged or defective. You get what you pay for. I would not trust LL for this purchase.
Posted by face it on 2013-04-16:
I will guarantee you LLI will not pay one thin dime in regards to the installers time. As far as returning the money for the product? I highly doubt that as well. They will claim "Our terms are clearly written on our invoice" and the 30 day rule will forgo any type of common sense or reputable type action (IE: refund)
I am sickened that this company is still in operation, after the countless times I have seen first hand how they rip people off, not to mention the endless BAD reviews. Maple floor buyer I am truly sorry you got in this mess. Please spread the word so other folks don't get taken to the cleaners as well. Thanks for the review.
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Bellawood
Posted by Mark2732 on 11/07/2010
ORLANDO, FLORIDA -- We installed Lumber Liquidators, bellawood bolivian rosewood over a concrete floor using Lumber Liquidators instructions and products, in 2 mos. the floor buckled and warped badly, they not only would not stand behind it, they denied telling us we could install it over concrete, I called back and have them on tape telling us we could over concrete using their products, unfortunately, we can not use that tape in court, we ended up removing the wood, having a $8000.00 fire to dispose of it and installed Anderson pre finished flooring, this was 4 years ago and the Anderson floor has held up wonderful. I suggest to stay far away from Lumber Liquidators, they lie.
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Company Response on 11/08/2010:
It's very unfortunate to have a customer suffer from a flooring problem, but clearly our flooring does not come out of the box buckled and warped, so this is an installation related problem. Stating you followed directions and this happened is very questionable as a properly installed floor would not buckle or warp. Moisture protection from between the concrete and the bottom of the boards failed and the buckling occurs when the boards expand from moisture and there's not enough expansion space between the walls and the flooring. Both are actually examples of not following the directions, so you may want to look at how the Armstrong floor was installed because it sounds like it was done right. Flooring is flooring and while you may pay more somewhere else, if you don’t install it right it can suffer from missed steps. LL is not an outlet for substandard flooring. We sell brand new top of the line products and offer some close out items as well, so you can buy products with a great warranty, or go the less expensive route and get an odd lot at a really discounted price you may not find anywhere else. Again, we're sorry to hear you had a bad flooring experience.
     
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Posted by getoverit on 2010-11-07:
I would think you could go into court, play the tape, and testify that, in fact, the conversation did take place.

However, I would be concerned as to whether you might have been provided with written instructions as to how the flooring can and cannot be used and whether that would be stronger evidence.

I would also think this would actually be settled out of court.

This company does seem to get a lot of complaints and is probably the kind of outfit you need to be really careful about.
Posted by raven2010 on 2010-11-07:
In many states, tapes that both parties did not agree to are not admissible.

I would say in the OP's case, what is in the written, signed contract will supercede any phone conversation.
Posted by Anonymous on 2010-11-07:
Lumber Liquidators sells discounted lumber and flooring purchased from other companies because it is flawed, been returned, discontinued, or didn't sell.
Posted by face it on 2010-11-22:
after having installed LL products for almost 9 years now I can certainly certify that they are all about lying to turn things in there favor. This goes on in such a huge way, it is not just corporate saying (there classic response) it's the installers fault, they actually support and reward there store staff for telling customers "sure, you can do that" when in fact they employ people that have no working knowledge of the product they sale! And when you are stuck paying out money for a bunch of junk they back up and say "we never said that! it's the installers fault!" I have seen it happen many times.
Natural products have certain guidelines that must be followed in regards to moisture as well as other application limitations. But wouldn't you think that the people selling this stuff should have enough knowledge (let alone humility) to inform the customer of these limitations. Most customers I have ever installed for know nothing about these limitations simply because they have never been involved with the installation of these type materials. And by all rights it is not the customers responsibility to know these things. But if you ever shop at LL prepare to be lied to, disrespected, and completely be taken advantage of!
On behalf of us out here truly trying to offer a quality service and not base our practises on a smoke and mirrors approach I want to thank you for taking the step to inform the public of your experience.
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StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty StarEmpty Star
Bellawood and Schon
Posted by Longchau on 06/09/2013
HOUSTON, TEXAS -- Buyer beware about Bellawood and Schon:

1. We bought some solid Bellawood and it need to ship in, some of the box still sticker Odd Lot and discounted price. How ignorant for those employee and can't even cover their dirty track. That label said Odd Lot didn't even removed. Our installer have difficulty problem putting this floor together, because the size of the wood is different.

2. My friends also bought flooring from LL, they bought the Schon product. It only been down for 6 months, and they complaint this floor is easy to scratch and finish wear off quickly. They have bruce oak flooring before they replace this the Schon Brazilian Cherry (suppose to be harder floor), but this new floor now look like 10 years old.
     
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Posted by lauren on 2013-07-25:
The hardness of the wood doesn't matter with engineered?!?! Engineered wood is a thin veneer of the hard wood. That'd be like dropping a heavy mug, it not breaking, then dropping a fine China and having it smashed. You could pay 3000$ a square foot on engineered wood and it'll still chip eventually. Brazilian cherry floors are one of the most durable woods out there. Any hardwood floor will get scratches in its finish. It's a water based urethane coating. It's inevitable.
Posted by hardwood specialist. on 2013-07-25:
Also. Bruce hardwood flooring is 3/4 of an inch thick. Schon is 3/8-1/2" and only about 1-2 mm is actual hardwood the rest is plywood or high dense fiber board. Engineered are for places with high moisture, heavy traffic, concrete slabs. Obviously the solid would will hold up tougher!
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