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Home Modification a Joke
Posted by on
I, like many others have been going back and forth with this bank. I started this whole process in Nov. 09. Not as long as some, but same story. I initially received one letter saying I did not send them something (which I did), so I went ahead and sent it again, called back, they said they received it. I waited a few weeks, called again (Dec. 28th), was told my case was closed that very day! They said I was missing paperwork (again)-she said if I faxed it they could reopen my case, so I did, called back again in 48 hours to make sure they received it, yes they received it, it's "complete" and in underwriting. Every time I call they say call back in a few weeks to check the status, so I called again, was told it was closed on Dec. 28th, I said yes it was and was also reopened that same day and was supposed to be in underwriting, she couldn't see that so I asked for someone else, this lady told me she didn't know why she told me that, yes it's open and being reviewed, she'll contact the gentleman who is handling it, make sure everything is in order and call me back-never got a call. I call several more times-everything seems OK-"under review". I think OK, we're getting somewhere now! Nope-I call again, DENIED (Mar. 8)No phone calls, no letters-just read an article (allAmericanpatriots.com) where Chase said they have increased attempts to contact customers to complete paperwork-call 36 times, reach out by mail 15 times and make at least 2 home visits! I received one letter the whole time after my initial application, and I've been closed and denied and told over and over I am missing paperwork! NO CONTACT! So again I resent things and was told to call back to make sure they received it, of course this time I had to resend current bank statements, paystubs and everything else...I did this, called, was told, yes, but why am I not showing rental income? Ummm, because I don't own a rental! I have given them several documents which I explained to them what they meant-I haven't owned that home in years and they have all the proof in front of them! I was then told OK, it's "complete" & under review AGAIN. I stewed for a few days and thought, this is a government program, there has to be somewhere to complain or get help so I hit the net and found the MHA Help line 888-995-HOPE, a gentleman actually 3-wayed a call to Chase and they were a little more helpful and straightforward...said it's taking 4-9 months and sometimes 12 to get an answer after I've been told constantly 60 days. I said OK, except I've been closed and denied in a lot less than that a few times for "missing paperwork" and never received anything telling me that, she said well we TRY to send everyone a letter. No way! If I wasn't constantly calling these people and being proactive, I'd have no clue. People----keep calling!!! Who knows what will happen now? The MHA Help guy said to call them if I start getting the runaround again, which I will I'm sure. The more I read on the net, the more I believe Chase doesn't want to help people, I've even heard from people at work where the same thing with the paperwork is happening to them and then they get denied etc. It's a mighty big coincidence!!!
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They Want to Take My Home.... again
Posted by on
COLUMBUS, OHIO -- This story goes back to 2008 when my husband developed throat cancer. He had to stop working and undergo a laryngectomy in May 2008, which means he lost his voice. Well, I am also disabled (malformed hips and knees and unable to work since 2005), so we had NO money coming in until he started to receive his SSI. This means that the mortgage fell behind. I tried to talk with Chase Home Finance LLC, but they would not speak to me because my name wasn't on the mortgage- only my husband's. I tried to explain to them that he has no voice so cannot speak and I had his power of attorney... but they would not listen. They refused to take any payments (partial or otherwise)because my name was not on the loan. I had to wait for my husband to become coherent enough to sign a paper saying that I could speak for him, but the bank would not acknowledge the paper or the power of attorney. They would call our home to talk to my husband, but when I answered the phone, they hung up- refusing to speak with me. Needless to say, the bank foreclosed on our house and we were forced to move out of our home in November 2008.

Fast forward 5 months-- we were living in a rental and had seen the house go up for police auction three times and then get pulled. In March of 2009 Chase contacts me and says that since the mortgage is Fannie Mae backed, they have to work with us and offered us our house back. We accepted. Their staff person (name available on request) worked with us and dropped our payment 34.00 each month and we were able to move back into our home in April 2009. We were told to make the new payment for three months (May, June, July) and they would re-negotiate our mortgage. We did this via money order. We received paperwork stating that our forbearance has ended, but no new paperwork on new terms. That was in December of 2009. So we continued to make the payments we had been making. Add to this that the bank lost our paperwork FOUR TIMES as we have tried to get our new terms established, and this has been quite a challenge.

The bank HAS contacted us in 2010. In February, they have called to speak to my husband, but when I told them that he cannot speak due to the laryngectomy and I informed them that I was his wife and had power of attorney to speak for him, they started hanging up on us again (like they did before). February 22, 2010, at 4:29 PM they called and I answered and they hung up on me (AGAIN). I immediately called my local branch office that has been helping me so I could get this matter resolved. It was when the staff person called them directly that she found out that they needed MORE PAPERWORK... the same paperwork that we had re-sent FOUR TIMES!!! This was at 5:02PM when I found this out. At 5:26 PM of the same day, a staff person ... but now they say that we make too much money (1296.00 a month for 2 people) to benefit from any government assistance mortgage programs, but not enough to make increased payments. They had originally said that any past due would be added to the end, but now they won't honor that....

The government gave JP Morgan Chase and Fannie Mae all this stimulus money to keep people in their homes-- but why is it now that I am being told that I may not be able to keep my home? How can one of the main financial institutions get away with changing the rules of the game and losing important paperwork FOUR TIMES? How can two disabled people be treated as if they lived in a third world country? Who was the home assistance program created for?

How can Chase Home Finance LLC think they are above everyone else???? HELP!!!
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Anonymous on 2010-02-22:
Unfortunately they government gave them stimulus so that they wouldn't go out of business. It had nothing to do with keeping people in their homes. Good luck with your situation.
Venice09 on 2010-02-22:
I understand that money is tight, but I would really suggest hiring an attorney to help you keep the house. It sounds like this whole mess could have been avoided if Chase had done their part in a timely manner. Sometimes hearing from an attorney makes people pay attention instead of ignoring customers when they think they can get away with it.

Good luck with your health issues, and I hope everything works out.
Anonymous on 2010-02-22:
The thing with POA's too is they have to be specifically worded depending on what it is used for. The bank should have a copy on file so that they can talk to you. A lawyer is a good idea at this point.
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Chase Bank is the most evil, unethical bank I have ever used
Posted by on
BUFFALO GROVE, ILLINOIS -- I have had several banks in my life, and have been fairly satisfied. I switched to Chase a few years ago because my mortgage was with them. I have come to realize that Chase is the most unethical and corrupt bank out there. They are thieves and preying on people especially in this difficult economy. Last week I was out of town and used my debit card at a cafe at the hotel we were staying at. My account was low but I was getting paid in a couple days and have direct deposit. I had more than enough to cover the two small debits at the cafe. I knew this for sure because the cafe had a computer for customers to use so I checked my balance. There were no other pending transactions other than the two small transactions at the cafe I had put through. When I got home that evening, I checked my online banking again and noticed that there was another transaction pending from later in the day from the toll authority. Apparently my transponder on my car was low on tolls so the toll authority put through an automatic debit without any warning. My account did not have enough in it that day to cover the toll authority debit so I knew I would be charged one fee. The toll authority charge was listed after the two small cafe debits so the toll charge was the last debit of the day and the only one that would have caused an overdraft. I accepted the one fee and had no problem paying it. But after my payroll check was direct deposited, I noticed Chase had charged me 3 overdraft fees for a total of $105.00. I looked again at my online banking account and noticed that Chase had rearranged the order of the debits and put the toll authority debit before the two small cafe debits. This switch in order gave Chase the opportunity to hit me with 3 fees instead of the one. I was furious and I called their customer service department. I told them that I knew they had rearranged the sequence of the debits which maximized their fees against me and they ADMITTED TO IT. They said they can arrange them however they choose without regard for the order the debits actually came through. I could not believe what I was hearing. I asked to speak to her supervisor and was told the same thing, that basically they can do this, it is not illegal and to bad so sad. I am closing my account and moving to another bank next weekend when I get my next paycheck. The new bank I called, which is actually a bank I used a few years ago, asked me what bank I was leaving. I told them Chase and she laughed and said they have tons of exChase customers coming over. Do not use Chase, they are thieves. I am also writing my state government to find out if what Chase is doing is legal and if so why! The greed of this bank is unbelievable.
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tnchuck100 on 2009-11-07:
As unethical as it is it is legal. Close the account and find a credit union. This scenario you just described would have resulted in ONE overdraft fee, not three.
msnanny on 2009-11-07:
Be sure to read the terms of your new bank as they are likely to follow those same procedures. It's not just Chase.
Chase is evil on 2009-11-09:
After doing some checking and listening to comments from others, I am moving my account to a credit union, not a bank. I found one in my area. My son used a credit union out west as they are pretty popular out the in Vancouver, WA area and he said it was great. He loved it and said they were very forgiving on fees and their customer service was great. They were not out to screw people as we have found with Chase and the other big major banks.
old fart on 2009-11-09:
good for you... Credit Unions are the bee's knees...
Anonymous on 2009-11-09:
Credit Unions are great places!
DebtorBasher on 2009-11-09:
Wise move!
Chase is evil on 2009-11-22:
I just started an account at a credit union. I am amazed. Their checking is free and as long as I have my paycheck direct deposited, use my debit card at least 10 times per month and receive and estatement instead of paper, they pay 3.56% interest on my checking. Their fees are much lower than Chase. I don't know why more people don't know about credit unions.
MaggieMcT on 2009-11-07:
While the re-ordering of debits is scummy, it's also widely-known. And you did overdraw. Hardly qualifies as "most evil" anything.
Chase is evil on 2009-11-07:

My first two transactions did not cause the account to overdraw, it was the last transaction that did. The last transaction was not expected but I understood I was responsible for that one fee. My issue is that they can re-sequence a customer's transactions in any order they choose to maximize the number of fees they can charge. That is not ethical and should not be legal.
DebtorBasher on 2009-11-07:
A few weeks ago, this very issue was on TV. What the bank does (and I believe it was more than just Chase Bank) is exactly what the poster stated. They arrange the transactions where they can get two fees instead of one. They were warning consumers to watch for this.

Don't even get me started about what they do with their mortgage customers!
Chase is evil on 2009-11-07:

Do you remember what the TV program was? I would be curious to know because I want to find out if this is legal and so why.
DebtorBasher on 2009-11-07:
I wish I did, but I'm sorry I don't. I think it was on our local news but that was a few weeks back.
Chase is evil on 2009-11-07:
I gave my story to Ann Minch the woman leading the Debtors Revolt against the big banks. My story is not about usury interest rates but it is still about unethical fees being charged by big banks. All the same evil practices. Think of the millions or even billions they are bringing in with these unethical fees.
DebtorBasher on 2009-11-07:
And that is how Chase can afford to buy out all those other banks that they took over.
new57 on 2009-11-07:
The only advice I can give you, like the many others that have encountered this problem is the following: Do not allow anyone to auto debit your checking account. It allows these types of situations to occur, despite your best efforts to keep track of your bank balance. Auto debits are just too risky IMHO. Companies can and will debit your account whenever they feel the need to.
I hope you can switch those auto payments over to a credit card.
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Declined Payment on their Check without legitimate reason: Incompetence, System Glitch or Deceptive Maneuver ?
Posted by on
DELAWARE -- Chase Credit Card customer since '06.
Fixed APR of 8.99%
NEVER, EVER late on any payments.
NEVER, EVER over-drafted my bank account.
In Feb. 09 Refinanced home mortgage @ 4.275%. GOOD CREDIT score, it has actually gotten better since the home refinance.

Here is the damaging unethical new practice of Chase.
Promotional "Rate Reduction for our most Valued Card members" (BEWARE!!!)
0.00% fixed APR until Feb.2010 when you use the enclosed "Special Rate Checks."
-Access extra cash
-Transfer high APR balances
-Pay unexpected expenses
-Use for large purchases

My card info
Credit Limit: $5,500
Previous Balance: $2,700.11 (NEVER over 50% of Limit)
Last payment: $1,350.11
Current Balance: $1,350.00 (Less than 25% of Limit)

I all but exhausted my bank account to pay (cash) to my Chase balance and cut it in half.
After checking on line to make sure that the payment had posted to my Chase balance, I deposited $1,350.00 in my bank using one of the promotional 0.00% checks from chase.
After checking on line with my bank, make sure that the Chase check had been posted, I proceeded to pay off two "high APR balances" (on line) in the amount of $1,200. I also paid my Gas, Electric, and two other credit card payments. Leaving only $124 in my bank.

A few days later I received a letter from Chase stating that the check of $1,350 was declined and that they had made the decision to change my credit limit to $1,800 due to late payments or not paid as agreed on accounts. (THIS IS FALSE!!! I have NEVER been late!! on any credit card accounts, never!!!)

My bank now has me over-drafted on every payment that I have made. Chase has my CASH, with which I could have paid all payments with absolutely no problems.

After HOURS of phone conversations with multiple Chase reps, I was transferred to (Keith) high level management in Delaware. After his thorough examination of my account history and current credit report, he admitted that there was no reason to change my credit limit or available funds and that he would correct it.
Sounds like problem solved? Read on.
My bank still has me seriously over-drafted. After talking with my bank, a possible solution was recommended. The bank suggested that I call Chase and have them reverse my $1350.11 CASH payment back into my bank account to cover my over-drafts. Sounds do-able? Read on.

I checked my Chase account to make sure the Delaware Manager had repaired and put my limit back at $5,500. Bingo!! Looks like he had kept his word.
I called Chase back to verify that their check would now be honored and solve the problem. After riding the phone merry-go-round I finally got a manager,(Helen) in Orlando, FL. I asked to have my $1,350.11 payment reversed back to my account to avoid the train wreck that Chase was about to cause and to call my bank and correct their mistake. Helen said that the payment COULD be reversed but would take up to 15 DAYS!!! (not an option). Helen said that I should have the bank just run the check through again and that the funds ARE available and your bank can call us to verify. Solved?
Looking at my Chase account online today, Saturday the 13th of June 2009,
Account status as follows:
Credit limit: $1,700
Balance: $1,350.00
Pending Charges: $2,700
Available Credit: $0

On Monday, I will most likely be in a financial train wreck. My damages will probably be in the hundreds of dollars.
And....No funds available to satisfy the over-drafts and penalties
My hard earned good credit is headed toward ruin.
All because I was told, in writing, that I would receive "Special Savings as a Most Valued Customer."

If I issued a check from my Bank and then later stopped payment, I could be prosecuted for check fraud.

I need legal help.
I have been set up and torpedoed!
Chase is aware of their error(s) and could fix this travesty but they have not.

Consequences and damage:

The potential for my financial destruction is in the works and Chase has not made their check good.
They have admitted that they had no legitimate cause for denial of payment.
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Soaring Consumer on 2009-06-14:
Chase should take responsibility for the problems they caused. At this point I suggest that you contact your state's Office of the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division. You need serious help with this.
Anonymous on 2009-06-15:
Is this right: you wrote Chase a check virtually emptying your checking account, and then deposited one of their "special offer" checks drawn on your credit line into your checking account? Why?
Just because your bank posted the Chase credit line check didn't mean that it had cleared.
CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-15:
Trixta, What it means is that Chase elected not to honor their own check. There is printed, in their promotion, reasons for deniel of payment. None of which applied to me. They admitted that they had no reason to lower my credit line or deny payment on their check. My account was evaluated again and my credit line put back up to $5,500. I was told to have the bank put the check through again and they would honor it. Yet the same denial happened a second time and my credit line reduced to $1,700. I have spoken to them again and my account re-re-evaluated, and credit line set back up to $5,500. At Chase, the right hand is working against the left hand.
You ask why I would pay down my balance (8.99%) and replace it with 0.00%? Did you read my complaint?
"To take advantage of special rate reduction for moast valued customers".
The check is bait for them to lower credit line and place the customer in a high balance category, effecting your credit score which then is used as a reason to raise interest rate. This is a deceptive maneuver.
I am not the only Chase cardmember who has been hit with this scam. Please read http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=55801
Change Of Terms Without Notification - Balance Transfer Check
Disaster Worker on 2009-06-15:
CHASE Fraud, maybe not a very smart move on your part to take a cash advance, but absolutely that are in the wrong to offer this option to you only to take it away. I agree with Soaring to contact your state's Attorney General and make sure Chase fully know what you plan to do.

Very clear and succinct post. Good job on explaining your situation! Wish you the best.
CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-15:
I have posted my complaint in hope to help other victims and to share solutions.

I am not accusing Chase of fraud, what I am asserting is that if I were to write a check to someone in a business offer/transaction, then, a few days later, with no excuse or reason, stop the payment, I could be prosecuted for fraud.

Here is a transcript of the Terms sent with the check offer:

Right to Decline: If checks are part of this offer, checks that post after the void date disclosed or that are made payable to us or one of our related banks or companies will be declined.

Under certain circumstances (for example, if your account is past due or over limit, or if we reasonably believe that you will be unable or unwilling to repay the balance or as described in your Cardmember Agreement), we may decline to process your transaction, in which case you will be notified."
I have reviewed, with Chase Manager(s), the above terms, and the conceeded that none of those terms can be applied to my account or credit history. Further, the reasons for denial and limit reduction were not applicable to me either.
When your credit is increased or decreased, a letter of advisement must be sent out. I have received two thus far, with two more on the way. This documentation proves that no valid reasons exists for not honoring the check or lowering my credit limit. Some folks simply will bow down to this type of abuse. I choose to expose it for the program scam that it is. Call Chase and fight back.
BTW, a complaint, with documentation has been filed with my State Attorney General.
MSCANTBEWRONG on 2009-06-15:
Thank you for the post and best of luck in resolving this issue.
CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-16:
Okay, the results are in.
Last night @ 12:01am the promotional 0.00% Check from Chase in the amount of $1,350.00 became again, a "RETURNED DEPOSIT ITEM", for the second time. This put my account over-drafted by $1,225.32. I was directed by Helen of Chase Card services to deposit that check and that "the funds are available".
DON'T try to use these checks. They are not checks.
They are used to do an inquiry on your credit report.
After so-called "careful consideration" they LOWER your credit limit. Then you do not have "Available Funds" which makes the check deniable. By lowering your credit limit they cause you to be carrying a "HIGH BALANCE", giving them the pretense to up your credit rate and other unseen things that lower your over-all credit score, in turn effecting other things maybe even what you pay in car insurance.

I am coming out of this without even losing a single feather. How?
Some have said that I was not so wise to use their check in the first place. Well I did do some things right.
1. I did not increase the balance on my chase card.
2. I paid off two other credit card accounts.
3. I paid my payments two weeks before the due dates.
4. I had Chase re-evaluate my account and increase my credit limit back up to $5,500.
5. I had chase reverse my payment to them ($1,350.11) back to my bank account.
6. I have no fees or penalties because I kept my bank fully informed.

So, all I have suffered is the time and frustration, which puts all of us the victor when we are aware their tactics.

Bottom line...Their Checks are worthless and definitely can be defined as a "DECEPTIVE MANEUVER" or scam or con or racket. Don't be bamboozled or hoodwinked by the banksters.
Kudos to my home town bank who refuses TARP and are not selling out. AMARILLO NATIONAL BANK, Amarillo, Texas.
DigitalCommando on 2009-06-16:
Cacacacacacredit Union? Do it NOW!
Madtypist on 2009-06-17:
Great job on this! I also used to think "convenience" checks were exactly that, used them on and off again for a number of years. That is until Chase who did the EXACT same thing to me. Fortunately only a few checks bounced when they refused to honor their own check. UNFORTUNATELY they declined that check about a month after I deposited it. I don't do business (nor will I ever) with Chase anymore but have used other convenience checks from other banks. Always call first and have them directly transferred to my account though.
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Change Of Terms Without Notification
Posted by on
CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE -- Have excellent credit, no money, but always pay on time (autopay helps immensely) until recently.....

Needed to increase cash flow a little, feeling the crunch... received balance transfer check offer in mail from Chase... credit limit $7900. that credit limit had been there for years. Used the bt checks in the past, always paid off promptly... Heard in the media, banks are cutting credit limits. So before I wrote any check, I called Chase (3 times) to confirm status of my credit limit. From past experience I have found it is necessary to always call 3 times for customer service, if 2 of the reps agree with the same answer then there is high probability the info is correct... So I called 3 times. All 3 reps assured me no problem, $7900 available, I asked what is the waiting time for the checks to clear, the answer by all 3 was that the waiting time was no different from any other check. That this balance transfer check was just like a regular check, write it and deposit it that's it.. They even calculated that the $7500 written would leave credit limit available that was more than sufficient to avoid over the limit and cover any fees etc... the reps gave me that figure $7500 and the green light go ahead.

Soooo. I wrote it. deposited it and waited a few days. I put it in the checking account which I reserve solely for autopay (about 8 different bills get paid automatically from that account every month).

A week later my bank notified me that the check was no good. Rejected by Chase. Chase had reduced my credit limit to $1000 without notifying me. All the autopays bounced like pinballs. Fees up the wazoo from each of them and the bank ....Over $300 in fees.

Some of the companies were understanding and credited the fees, even Citi bank believe it or not credited $35, Capitol One credited $25. I have sent documentation (notarized) via certified mail return receipt requested to Chase requesting Chase absorb the remaining fees. There has been no acknowledgment of even receiving the documents. This was a month ago.

I have the signature from the return receipt and will follow up within the next few days. This whole mess was entirely avoidable. I had other options. I had never had an problem with Chase in the past 20 years.

The 3 reps that I spoke to misled me. There was no mention of how these balance transfer checks are subject to approval from Chase and this could take weeks. That indeed my credit limit was being considered for being reduced. These "checks" are actually a costumed form of a loan application and are not "just like a regular check."

It is probably all there in the fine print somewhere. But that was why I called customer service (3 times to make sure). So they could help me make the right decision. An informed decision. That is why I believe Chase needs to reimburse me the fees. I received incomplete information and incorrect information from their representatives. I know what I am dealing with. I have not even received acknowledgment of Chase receiving documents or what to speak of Chase reviewing the case. If you want honest interaction you have to interact with an honest company...

CNBC lauds Mr. Jamie Daimon, CEO JPM Chase. I think he should be tarred and feathered. This is his company and it reflects his views and values...
And it is pretty nasty.... As an aside, historically I saw a video somewhere on the net showing how the original Mr. JP Morgan Chase was hugely instrumental in instituting major changes in US monetary system around the time of the great depression. He was greatly influential in the government and in setting up the fed. An opportunist of gargantuan proportions no doubt... It may be tha Mr. Daimon thinks he is the successor and that we the card holders are really bag holders....
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tnchuck100 on 2009-05-30:
The lesson to be learned here is never rely on anything a customer service representatives tells you on the phone. Get it in writing. All of the big companies, be it a bank, satellite company, or a cell phone company will deny any statements made on the phone by their representatives when it would be detrimental to their agenda.

Diligent reading of the fine print in the agreements and terms & condition will many times avoid a lot of grief.

Good luck on getting past this low spot.
madconsumer on 2009-05-30:
next time make sure the check clears before spending it.

pretty simple.
BokiBean on 2009-06-16:
jiva, I know which checks you are talking about...we get those in the mail all the time. They come with the customer's statement and are supposedly ready to use. No fine print.
BokiBean on 2009-06-16:
In fact, they come with statements, they come separately and they're a downright pain they come so much!
CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-16:
This may be key:
These checks are not payable through CHASE!
They are payable through First USA

I am on it this morning...I located First USA

WILMINGTON, DE 19801 (800) 622 - 6528

CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-16:
That USA phone number did not work.
But this one does, 800-955-9900
The answer as "card services".
I gave them my card info and they said,
"How can we help you with your CHASE card account today?"
JP Morgan owns USA Bank.
I have solved my problem and will post it on my complaint:
DebtorBasher on 2009-06-16:
There's usually two different limits on your card. One is cash advance limit and the other is a purchase limit. Either way, you seemed to have made it clear to the reps, that you wanted to use the cash advance checks and they gave you misleading information.

I always tell people, if they have ANYTHING at all with the name "CHASE" on it...get rid of it like a hot potato because sooner or later you're going to get screwed by them and they will tell you any over the phone to get you to spend your money. I really feel sorry for those who have their mortgage with Chase because they will really kick you when you're down and when they can't kick you anymore, they will kick your dog!
Anonymous on 2009-06-16:
I found an old one from 5th/3rd Bank. It says on the back of the tear off portion, the part where you write how much you wrote the check for to keep for your records "Disclosures yada yada yada...All credit limits are subject to credit approval. Possession of this check does not constitute a contract for payment until approval of increase of existing credit line....." yada yada yada. It also mentions that if your payments are not current the checks won't be honored either. So forth and so on.

We never used these checks because we never kept balances on our cards and the interest was always too high. Chase may be different, but I figured they all were the same with their credit card checks.
jiva34 on 2009-06-16:
whoa, thanks a million for all the feedback. Have been dreading having to follow up this Chase pain in the butt thing, but with all the feedback I am getting a clearer idea of how to present my case, not that it will make any difference most likely...
but I've got some more to work with, as for the fine print if I am in conversation with a designated representative of the company and ask them directly the questions covered in the fine print the answers they give should be the same as the fine print, No??
What am I missing here?
Look, it's no secret the banks are screwed up...
Congress (not that they're not messed up too) just stepped in with all kinds of interventions, billions of $$$ of our money, as well as new laws about just this kind of flim flam... credit limits, fees, etc... for credit card companies. Hey the ads on cable spoofing the banks, you know the one about the 2 girls who are asked if they want a pony, one gets a plastic hold in your hand toy and the other gets a real pony and the banker laughs, or the kid on the bike, hey kid you want to ride the bike, oh oh no no not beyond 2 feet without getting charged fees...and the banker laughs, insidious....
What do you think is behind this whole economic mess, the banks!!!! They went from service to blood sucking....
And are having a hard time giving up the blood sucking, even though there isn't any more blood to suck.
It's worldwide, by the way.
But US lead the way, as usual, world leader... In both good and bad I guess.
The other countries were dumb to follow, so they can't actually come out and say it, the US made the mess, without looking terribly stupid themselves. But it was the US leading the way to worldwide financial disaster...
Not doing much for US credibility... Russia complaining to drop USD as world reserve currency. A few more super bloopers like this last one and we will all need to learn to speak Chinese.... Go Chase. Considered the best of the lot? yikes....
thanks again for the feedback, will post results..
Madtypist on 2009-05-31:
You have my sympathy. I was in similar straits several years ago and did the same thing as you. It was disastrous for me -- RIGHT at a very precarious time financially and then to have about five checks bounce -- and that was a good month after I deposited the check.

I am wiser but have instituted just three rules. Maybe you will find them helpful.


2. Never deposit a convenience check from any bank. If you get an offer that is good, call the bank and request that they deposit the amount into your account. They will do a credit check on the spot and put the money in your account. I have done this with Citibank and Capital One with no problems. I swear the Capital One money was in my account about two minutes after I hung up. [Citibank took longer -- maybe it was about a week.]


Good luck.

CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-14:
This same thing just happened to me.
Here is the fine print:
Right to Decline: If checks are part of this offer, checks that post after the void date disclosed or that are made payable to us or one of our related banks or companies will be declined.

Under certain circumstances (for example, if your account is past due or over limit, or if we reasonably believe that you will be unable or unwilling to repay the balance or as described in your Cardmember Agreement), we may decline to process your transaction, in which case you will be notified.
I think that I can see through the scam.
They are using the check as bait for the reason for lowering your credit limit. Thus funds are NOT available and the check is not processed.
I have never had a balance over 50% of available funds.
Carrying high balances will effect your credit score and give them the reason to raise your rate.
Read my complaint added Sunday 6-14-09:
Maybe we need to talk.
CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-15:
I have filed a a Consumer Complaint with the my State Office of the Attorney General Consumer Protection.
If this is a deceptive tactic used to abuse consumers,
actions may be taken to stop the abuse. There are losses in fees and penalties, but what is even more damaging is the reduction of your credit score.
Did you talk to Chase and have them re-evaluate your account and re-instate your limit? They have done that for me twice (within four days, you will be sent written confirmation), which affirms that they had NO legitimate reason to lower your limit OR deny payment on the check.
BokiBean on 2009-06-15:
Bottom line...Chase blows.
jiva34 on 2009-06-16:
hey, thanks for the feedback.
guess I fell asleep at the wheel.
they snuck it by me.
the thing that really got me going, was that I called three different cust service reps, explaining my situation and what I was thinking of doing, NOT ONE OF THEM alerted me that the balance transfer check was subject to further scrutiny as to my credit limit. ALL THREE REPS told me outright that I had sufficient credit limit and even told me the amount I could safely write the check for and to go ahead and write the check, NO PROBLEM.. The reason I called (3 times) was to find out what was going on with credit limits and if mine was secure, I was told no problem.
The whole banking system is way too big. It has become a hamburger grinding machine. We're the hamburger...
Local credit unions and smaller local banks should be picking up more accounts as people will start to flee the grinder.... I'm looking into a local credit union.
I sent the certified return receipt requested notarized documents but never heard from anyone at Chase (what else is new?) Maybe they thought I would die or something. Been sick with not enough energy to take on the fight but am feeling better and plan to follow up tomorrow. 6/16/09.
There's just no accountability with these super colossus institutions, like Chase or AT&T (another hamburger maker). Why should they be accountable. They're so big, who cares!!! They run the government!!! Esp. Chase..
Scary monsters if you ask me.....
But I still have credit cards. It's the way the society functions right now. How to maneuver through it without getting made into hamburger...
Anonymous on 2009-06-16:
Read the fine print on the perforated part or the enclosure that comes with the check. It clearly states the check is subject to credit approval. This is a fine example of read the fine print.
PepperElf on 2009-06-16:
and from all the complaints I hear about those "checks" is that the best thing to do is run them through the shredded before you use them.

cos in my opinion they're not much better than dangling crack in front of an addict. just there to sucker you in to being in debt.

CHASE and Check Fraud on 2009-06-16:
Sorry LadyScot, I have the checks, promotional material and the "Important Information" in front of me. I does not state "the check is subject to credit approval.”

Here is what my check offer says,
Use these Balance Transfer checks to take
advantage of these super-low rates today.
* Save by transferring balances from higher-APR accounts.
* Write a check to yourself.
* Go on a well-deserved vacation.
* Make home improvements.

These checks are ready to go. You can write them up to the unused
portion of your credit line, but no single check or other transaction from
this offer can exceed $20,000. Single transactions that exceed $20,000
will be declined. Just make sure you have enough available credit for the
transaction(s), interest, and any related fees. Don't miss out -- great
rates like this don't come around every day.

*Checks must be posted to your account by the post/void date on the check(s).
*See "Important Information" section for more details.

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Beware! Chase Is Ripping Customers Off On Safe Deposit Boxes!
Posted by on
In 2007 I opened a medium-sized safe deposit box at my local Chase branch for an annual fee of $75. In 2009, my annual fee which is automatically debited from my savings account appeared on my March statement as $160.50 WITHOUT any notification from the bank before the fee was charged. Thinking the bank had mistakenly overcharged me, I called my Chase branch and asked that this charge be corrected. Before I can even take a breath after asking this question the bank manager on the phone RUDELY informed me that that was indeed the new fee and that Chase has a no-refund policy. When I proceeded to remind her that I was not informed by the Bank and that I did NOT receive any NOTIFICATION whatsoever about this drastic and OUTRAGEOUS increase in the annual safe deposit fee BEFORE it was charged to my account, the branch manager ADMITTED that no notification had been sent out and that the notification was simply the actual charge on my savings account statement...which she continued to repeat over and over is NON-refundable. So basically after expressing my OUTRAGE to this bank's practice of charging outrageous fees to customer accounts WITHOUT prior notification to the customer AND deliberately imposing a NO REFUNDS policy on these charges, I was in complete and total AWE at the criminal practices of this bank!!!

In fact, I found out from another personal banker at the bank in a phone conversation that my fee should not only be $75 but that I also qualified for a 20% discount because of my long-time excellent relationship with the bank and the fact that I had over $15K in my savings account. When I challenged the branch manager with this information indicating that not only was I overcharged over DOUBLE the $75 fee which I should be paying annually, but that actually according to one of her employees at the bank I actually qualify for a 20%, the bank manager was turned bright red in anger and raised her voice at me and proceeded to YELL and SCREAM at me. At this point I was genuinely frightened and walked out of the bank and called 911 to request police officer presence at the bank since all I wanted at that point was to completely close all my accounts, take all my money and get the heck out of there in peace. The police arrived heard my story and escorted me back into the bank to close out my accounts, get my money and peacefully leave. COMPLETELY OUTRAGEOUS!!!! We have all heard of bank robberies but I think what I experienced was a REVERSE BANK ROBBERY!!!

Where is the accountability for these criminal bank practices?????? CHASE CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH ANYONE'S MONEY EVEN THE MOST LOYAL AND LONG-TIME GREAT CUSTOMERS LIKE MYSELF!!! PLEASE REMOVE ALL YOUR FUNDS FROM CHASE UNLESS YOU DON'T MIND IF YOUR BANK RIPS YOU OFF, FAILS TO NOTIFY YOU THAT THEY'RE ABOUT TO CHARGE OUTRAGEOUS FEES WHICH YOU NEVER AGREED TO, AND THEN IN THE END STRICTLY ADHERES TO THEIR NO-REFUND POLICIES WHEN YOU CHALLENGE THE UNLAWFUL FEE DEDUCTIONS FROM YOUR ACCOUNTS. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS. EVERYONE IN MY FAMILY HAS CLOSED ALL ACCOUNTS WITH CHASE AND TRANSFERRED ALL THEIR BANKING BUSINESS TO OTHER BANKS SINCE I HAVE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE AND EVERYDAY I TRY TO SPREAD THE WORD TO MY FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES TO NOT TRUST THIS HORRIBLE BANK. I have written 7 letters and sent them to the Chase Corporation about this horrible experience WITHOUT any return letter or any acknowledgment of my grievance. I also reported this incident to the US Treasury Dept Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which deals with national banks like Chase, and they have notified me that they are investigating Chase regarding this and other similar complaints they have received from former Chase customers.

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bargod on 2009-04-02:
I can see closing your accounts and leaving, but calling the police? are you kidding me. You must have felt pretty darn threatened.
BokiBean on 2009-04-02:
I dunno, in this instance I might have called the cops to escort me back in and get my stuff cleared out too.

There's no excuse to treat a customer like this and it sounds like they really botched this up from the beginning to the end.
memoryx57 on 2009-04-02:
As a side note, I believe Chase is the one that is now refunding all the $10 fees that they recently started charging their customers on credit card accounts. They were called to task by the feds and realized the error of their ways!! Of course to hear them talk they can do no wrong..Glad you pulled your money out...They certainly don't deserve it.
Anonymous on 2009-04-02:
If the personal banker (at Chase?) gave you good advice, which appears to be so, why blame Chase entirely. The grievance was with the branch manager who, if the OP is truthful, is a real dolt. Closing the accounts was a lot like refusing to take the whole class on a picnic because one kid horked a spitball. And I'm no fan of 'Cheese' Bank.
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Chase is Ripping Off Their Customers
Posted by on
STATEN ISLAND, NEW YORK -- If you check your Chase account daily as I do, and you sometimes run into a negative balance as I do....then I am sure you have experienced this same thievery from Chase Bank. When you use your Chase debit card, oftentimes, the funds are immediately posted and debited from your account. Although they are debited from your account in a "pending" status, the amount in question is still debited from your available balance. If you have one debit that hits before you are able to make your deposit, then you get charged an insufficient funds fee. I agree with that. It was my fault and I should be charged the fee. BUT...what Chase does is...they change the pecking order of previous debits that were already deducted from your available balance. Once they change the order, then they can charge you not ONE, but two, three or four insufficient funds fees. I have called Chase customer service on more than one occasion because of this. I have actually had customer service supervisors agree with me and credit the additional charges back to my account. I have gone to my Branch and complained about this and have had customer service reps at my branch agree with me that it is wrong that Chase does this. Well, it happened again. I was charged 2 insufficient funds fees when I deserved only one. I called 800-935-9935 and spoke to a representative who could not help me. I asked for a supervisor and spoke to [snip] who refused to help me.

Her excuse on behalf of Chase was that charges had already been reversed for me in the past 12 months so she could not do it again. I did not realize there was a limit on how many times I can be screwed by my bank and have my bank correct the problem. I informed Ms. [snip] that this was nothing more than thievery by Chase Bank and that they take advantage of customers who clearly do not have enough money to begin with. Ms. [snip] explained that when the debit is deducted form my account it is "pending" until the merchant requests the funds. Well, if it is "pending" then why is it deducted from my available balance. As far as I am concerned, my funds were debited when my balance had enough funds to cover it. Changing the pecking order of those debits to rack up more charges for the bank and to suck more money out of me is robbery.

Whether it is Chase Bank or some mugger on the street, I was just ripped off. There has been another large bank that lost a class action lawsuit against them for this same exact practice and I am going to find out about that because I think it is time Chase paid up for getting away with ripping off their customers for so long.
Resolution Update 03/19/2009:
After forwarding my 3cents posting to BBB, Chase responded by refunding my OD fee.
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Ben There on 2009-03-15:
Whenever you purchase something at a store with a credit or debit card, at the time of sale the store is normally just getting an approval code from your bank stating that they will set aside from your account the amount requested. At this point, the store just has a promise of the funds, but does not actually have your money. This does not happen until the store "batches" or closes its credit card payments, which is normally done once a day when the store closes... At this point, Visa and Mastercard actually transfer the funds from your bank into the stores bank.

Lets say you have $100, and you go into store A and spend $10. You then go into store B and spend $20, and then store C and spend $99. Lets say store C is the first to close at 5pm, so its gets your $99 first leaving just $1 in your account. Store B closes at 6pm, taking the last dollar from your account leaving you with -$19 plus an NSF charge. Store A then closes at 9pm, bringing your account to -$29 and causes you to get a second NSF charge.

I know it seems like you should only have one NSF charge for the $99 purchase at store C, but since they transferred the money first through no fault of the bank, that left your two earlier purchases to create 2 NSF fees.

I guess what I am trying to say is the banking and credit world does not work around when you put your debit card down on the counter, but when the store takes the money.
tnchuck100 on 2009-03-15:
Yes, they are ripping you off. The sad part is you agreed to it. If you read your customer account agreement you will most likely find a statement that essentially says they can post your transactions in any order they want to. You are correct in that they do reorder them to produce the maximum amount of fees possible. It is a stinking, rotten game they play. But it is legal. For now.

Changing banks will not help. Bank of America, Wachovia, Wells Fargo, and all the big banks do it.

Close your account and find a credit union. Most process transactions in the order they receive them.
old fart on 2009-03-15:
STOP charging things on your Debit/credit card when you darn well known that the money isn't there!!!

Problem solved..!
Anonymous on 2009-03-15:
If you make a debit above and beyond the money available before you make a deposit, then any overdraft/NSF fees are your own fault. No one is trying to rip you off.
Chris721 on 2009-03-15:
In my complaint, I had said that I deserved the one charge. That was entirely my fault. It was a bill payment that normally hits my account on the same day I make a deposit. It hit a day early. That is no one's fault but my own. I am not blaming the bank or anyone else for that. My complaint is about the bank changing the order of the debits after they had already been deducted from my available balance so that amounts that had previously posted and debited were changed so that the bank could rack up additional fees rather than the 1 fee that I accept responsibility for. I made the mistake of playing it a little too close and I deserve to be charged $35.00 but that doesn't mean I deserve to be ripped off either.
jktshff1 on 2009-03-15:
Cris, this is not directed at you, but at all the people with this type of complaint.
If the money ain't going to be there, no matter in what order they take it out.....YOU AIN"T GOT THE MONEY!!!! How hard is that to understand? The days of kiting checks is over.
old fart on 2009-03-15:
AMEN Jktshff !!
tnchuck100 on 2009-03-15:
Some of you people are absolutely pitiful!

You are correct, if you have no overdraft the order does not make a difference. It's not one or maybe even two NSF fees that is the issue. It's the reordering of transactions to increase the number of fees. In many of these complaints it's usually one mistaken debit that cause the overdraft. But one overdraft should not be parlayed into 4, 5, or 6 by reordering. But the banks are reordering the transactions so they may charge multiple overdrafts when the sole purpose is to screw their customer.

I am really disappointed that so many of you cannot understand how the banks are being unnecessarily greedy. Trying to convey this to some of you is like trying to push butter up a wildcat's butt with a red hot poker. It simply cannot be done.

---The End---
Chris721 on 2009-03-15:
tnchuck...Thank you. You understand what my complaint is. I knew what I wa trying to explain and could not understand why people were not reading the actual complaint.
I just signed on to this site today and I think it is great. It is very informative and there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here. I have always been the type to walk away quietly and just chalk things up to bad experiences. I am sick of doing that. My money is just as important to me as anyone else's is to them. I am tired of paying for bad service, bad food, bad treatment. I am tired of vague fine print that isn't clearly defined until you want to cancel a service. Even if I cannot find resolution, this is an excellent site just to vent and learn what to look out for in the future.
jktshff1 on 2009-03-15:
tnchuck, I take exception to being called pitiful.
I am really disappointed that you can't understand the concept, if you ain't got the money don't spend it.
If you can't keep a checkbook, use cash.
Ponie on 2009-03-16:
Guess I must be pitiful, too, jktshff1. I have a really, really bad habit. If I look at my check register and see I only have $25 left, I don't go to the ATM and withdraw $60. Or I don't write a check for $80 and hope my deposit hits before the check clears. No matter how much that check register shows if I want to use my debit card--I'm out of luck! When I got them, I promptly cut them up. I know these are bad habits, but I've managed to survive for a while without piling up bank fees.
yoke on 2009-03-16:
Ponie, I must be pitiful also. I don't spend more than what is in the accout. Like you if I only had $25 in my account I would not spend $25.01 and expect the bank not to charge me. Even my 16 year old knows that. He has had his account almost a year and has yet to get a NSF.
Ben There on 2009-03-15:
Tnchuck, what will credit unions do with checks? Lets say I write 10 valid checks on Monday that are within the means of my account, yet I write 1 check on Wednesday that wipes out my account. Lets say the check from Wednesday is cashed on Thursday, which leaves me with a negative balance before the other 10 checks are cashed on Friday. Same things as what happened to the OP, but mine was done with paper and not electronically. Would the credit union waive my 11 NSFs from checks because of when the first 10 were written instead of cashed?
Anonymous on 2009-03-16:
I stopped reading at, "If you check your Chase account daily as I do, and you sometimes run into a negative balance as I do...." I talked to one of the tellers at my bank a few days ago. I asked how often people complain about NSF charges and then cannot provide a copy of their register. "At least 3-4 times a day. We have customers who have not made a register entry in 2-3 months, and their angry because of the NSF charge." The bankers have become scum, but it's just stupid to set yourself up to be cheated.
Anonymous on 2009-03-16:
These practices of Chase, BoA and others are abusive. The sole intent is to extract as many fees as possible from their customers. Customers who can least afford it. Holy mole when did the customer become a 'mark'? Business didn't used to be like this. I'm not affected by OD fees and the probability of me getting an OD fee is pretty close to zero. I'd like think it's because I am a superior smart guy with an exceptional accounting talent. But that crap ain't true. I don't face OD fees because I was very fortunate at birth and in my life have been blessed beyond what I deserve. So, why I should care if Chase abuses people living from pay day to pay.. Ya know that's not me. I guess I care because I'm wise enough to know that if this abuse is allowed to continue then I will be next. The abuser doesn't stop until forced to stop. I want it to stop before its me having to write one of these complaints.

Good review!
kcoff47 on 2009-03-31:
The same thing has happened to me with overdraft charges -- twice! I only opened a Chase account because when I went into a Chase Bank to cash a check from Chase Bank, they convinced me to open a checking account with the $100 I received in the mail. But, it has been the biggest mistake of my life! I have gone broke from their overdraft fees. I was even charged overdraft fees on the $100 they gave me -- apparently the deposit wasn't valid until eight days after the deposit.

The first time I experienced Chase's policy of paying the largest charge first and then the smaller charges was around the holidays. I had paid a number of bills online and their charges were pending on my Chase account. Then, a few days later, a large transaction came through that I had forgot to cancel. But, I wasn't too concerned because I knew there were not enough funds and it would be returned, I'd be charged an overdraft fee and then I could clear up the mistake. To my horror, Chase paid the large transaction -- even though it was the last transaction to take place -- and then all of the bills I had paid received overdraft charges or were returned. I couldn't believe it! And, this happened at Christmas. I was wiped out! I spent many hours on the phone trying to explain to them what had happened, and they explained their policy of clearing the largest amount because it may be a rent or mortgage payment or something of importance. I tried to explain that I was wiped out because of this mistake. They reversed a few of the fees, but by then, my account was so messed up I didn't know what had been paid, what had been returned, what had been returned twice -- there were all kinds of fees being taken from my account. I struggled to get my account in balance. And, then...it happened again. I had made a payment of about $300, it was the last payment I had made in a series of bill payments, it caused me to be overdrawn, but instead of that bill being returned for NSF, it was paid, and again all of the smaller charges that had taken place a few days before were charged overdraft fees or returned. I called and pleaded my case, but they were only able to reverse a few fees. I accused them of doing this on purpose to make money from their consumer and they denied it.

Right now, I am in the process of switching banks. I can't afford to be a Chase customer -- I'm going broke!
goodgreif on 2009-04-30:
I definitely agree with those who say if you don't have the money, don't spend it. However, I have been through Chase Bank's scheme of the constant NSF fee game they play. I will admit that there was a time or two that I deserved the NSF charge, but just recently, there was an unauthorized debit for $99 which I disputed yet Chase STILL charged me a NSF fee AND a returned item fee...what the hell!!! I was speechless! I couldn't believe that Chase would charge me for something that wasn't even my fault. And I am not happy with the fact that they constantly pay for your transactions knowing that you don't have the money. For instance, if I have $20 in my account and there is a debit for $20.50...return it, don't pay for it so I can be hit with a NSF charge. Give me a break.
coolrain on 2009-08-18:
Wells Fargo reorders as well. It seems criminal to me. As the original poster stated, it's fair and understandable to be penalized for NSF transactions, but reordering prior transactions to maximize penalties should not be legal. It may very well be in the agreement, however, if all banks are doing it then you really have no choice but to accept it. That said, I think I will check into a Credit Union as some of you have mentioned they may not practice this blatant thievery. The worst part of it is, many people do not even realize it's happening to them. Once the bank finishes their reordering, it is not evident when viewing your statement that this ever occurred.
cyrus x on 2009-11-11:
hello,I just had this problem today but with M & T bant. I made 3 separate small purchases with my card. the last purchase took my over by 25 cents. I had made these purchase the same day. when I came home I checked my account because I knew I was close. all the charges were there but no fees charged. I thought since it was only 25 cents then maybe they didn't charge a fee.these purchases were made November 5th, they register on my account November 6th and on November 9th, I got hit with an OD fee for the last purchase and the 1st two purchases were ''pending''. on November 10th the other two pending orders went through and I get hit with two more insufficient fees. so 3 OD fees for going over by 25 cent all because the rearranged the order the money is actually taken out. why wasn't the lat order that took me over not pending as well I don't know. this is obviously a rip off. how can you get hit with fees for because of orders pending and when those orders go through you get hit with fees for them too? how is this ethical practice?
cmon son on 2010-01-06:
Want to know what happen to me? I had $11.75 left in my account for almost 2 weeks. I bought a pack of cigarettes from the store for $10.00. 2 days later I checked my account and had -$32. 27. I check my transactions and they charged me an atm fee for $2.00 on something from weeks before.
Anonymous on 2010-01-06:
Cmon, probably because the bank that owned the ATM had not yet sent in the charge. What did your checkbook show as the balance?
voiceoff on 2010-01-06:
OK I will add my few cents here. When it is a debit card many believe they will not allow you to spend what you do not have. It is not a credit card. It is like a withdrawal and if it is not in there it should be denied. We do not want loans for a day with a big huge fee for them as this is what that amounts to.
Next, when they do give you back a refund for an error on their part, it is done via a "courtesy refund." And I agree why is there a limit to how many times they must correct their own error? So that happened to me. I deposited a check one day from another account in that same bank so it should have cleared within a day the most. Well it didn't for several days so there was an insufficeint funds charge ( when there was enough funds deposited and per law should have cleared timely) . Then, because I relied on that to be in the bank account, my returned payment was now late and fees were assessed for that and that went on my payment record as late. Well I did have them investigate and yes it did show I was accurate and they reversed their fees but the lateness stayed per my payment having to be put through again. So, guess what? Next error they made they said I used up my "courtesy reversals." I said it was not a courtesy but a clear bank error but she has it listed as a courtesy. Click.
Anonymous on 2010-01-06:
Voiceoff, if banks declined those attempted debits, ya'll would be here moaning about how dare they blah blah. You say they should deny it. Why do they need to? Banks are not your babysitter holding your hand telling you not to overspend. If you are old enough to have a debit card, then you should be old enough to manage your money without some bank having to go Nah Ah Ah...you don't have enough.

I will tell you what my husband told me when I tried to get my daughter to bring me her checkbook and statements so I could manage her money for her: "Andrea, she is a grown damn woman. Let her pay a few fees and she will learn to be more responsible."

He was correct. She paid a few, and learned to keep track of her money.
tnchuck100 on 2009-03-15:
My point was most credit unions do not reorder transactions to produce the maximum fees possible. I did not indicate you would avoid all NSF fees with a credit union. It was not an issue of waiving fees. If the money is not in the account when the transaction hits whether is electronic or paper it will produce an overdraft fee. Key point here is that are NOT reordered.

Just a side note: My credit union does not assess an overdraft fee if the overdraft is less than $5.00.
voiceoff on 2010-01-06:
Lady yes I know that is their stance but by definition until you know otherwise you consider it as if you are withdrawing from an account and a teller would NEVER give you what you do not have. The rules should be the same or at leasttold to every debit card holder. It would eliminate errors and charges and that is why it is not done cause those are moneymaking charges. I have in fact NEVER had an overdraft by using my own debit card. But my teen daughter had a situation where the bank erroneously made a deposit into her account rather than another account and this was her first card ever so she used that money which she had checked to see first if it was available. So three months later they realized their error and without warning reversed that deposit and charged her with 4 od charges. She had spent less than $30 and had $180 of charges as I recall. And they said if she did not pay they would put into collection. Where is common sense? They claim how could she not realize a deposit was made that was not hers. Well the teller actually wrote my daughter's name onto that deposit slip! So she thought her dad made it for her, which he does periodically, and that is on record.
Point is they won't accept any responsibility for this.
Common sense says if they trapped her by their own mistake she should not be punished for that.
Anonymous on 2010-01-06:
Voice, if I had a deposit suddenly show up in my account, I would dang sure find out where it came from. This is a lesson learned for your child.

As for debit transactions being allowed, do you understand at all how banking transfers work? You have $100, you swipe your card for $99 for gas, but the gas station only authorizes $1, so your bank does not know you spent $99 until the charge comes in from the gas station, so while you still show $99 in your account, you go and spend $40 more. THEN the bank gets the charge from the gas station, and WHAM! In the hole. Now the bank does not know what you spent until the charge comes in. But YOU did.

Therefore YOU are responsible, NOT them. I just do not understand WHY this is so hard for people. My daughter learned that when she does not keep track of her spending by writing down her charges in the checkbook, and following the checkbook and NOT the balance online, that she is giving away her money. She now understands that if the checkbook says $10, and the online bank says $100, she does NOT have $100.
voiceoff on 2010-01-06:
The gas station authorizes $1 when the gas was $100? You lost me there because I did not know that was a practice - to not authorize the full amount. Is this just something you came up with or how it really works?
I explined that he dad periodically transfers money into her account, and it was there 3 months before they suddenly without warning reversed it. Is noit the bank to blame ? Come on. They will ruin a kid's credit rating who is innocent of everything but catching someone else's mistakes!
Anonymous on 2010-01-06:
Voice, depending on the gas station, hell even some restaurants, they authorize anywhere form $1-500 to make sure the card is valid. I did not make this up. It depends on location. When the actual ticket comes in for payment, then the auth drops off and the charge is applied. BP does $1. Shell is $75.

Places started doing authorizations due to the high number of theft and credit card fraud.

LEARN how your account works.
Anonymous on 2010-01-06:
Lady is not making it up. There's a Chevron I frequent. If I didn't write down in my check register that I just spend $20 bucks at that gas station, I'd be up a poo creek without a paddle if I just solely relied on what it told me online. Online, it tells me I only spent $1 dollar there, instead of $20. When the charge actually posts, it posts how I spent it $20 bucks.
trp2hevn on 2010-01-06:
Bearkat, the Exxon/Mobil I go to does the same thing. Only I usually end up getting closer to $50 worth of gas. Gas must be cheap where you live. :)
Anonymous on 2010-01-06:
$50?? Good grief! Well, I have a small car. Full tank actually costs me around $25 or so depending on how depleted my tank is. Go go Austin, TX. :-)
voiceoff on 2010-01-10:
Chase just lowered my credit limit from 15k to 1k on a card I have had for 2 yrs with no late or delinquencies ( I have 1 lateness five years ago on one card and that is in error). Will my lowered credit available affect my score as well as my ability to get funds ? Can I fight it?
GenuineNerd on 2010-01-10:
When I use my Visa check card, I often do the transactions as "credit" rather than "PIN"; if I do it as "PIN", my bank (US Bank) charges a 25 cent fee. If I do it as "credit", there is no fee. I also log in everything I spend on the check card (usually groceries or gasoline) in my checkbook, so there are no "surprises". When I buy gasoline, I limit myself to stations that only put a $1 hold on the account...I typically use Speedway, Circle K, or GetGo, because they only put a $1 hold. If I'm at an unfamiliar station, I use a credit card instead of the check card, since some stations put as much as a $75 hold on the checking account, even if I buy only $25 worth of gasoline. But the key is, to prevent overdrafts, log everything in the checkbook, and know how much a hold is put on your account when you buy gasoline.
tnchuck100 on 2009-03-15:
Ben There, your example would produce 11 overdraft fees. If the customer has had the account for an appreciable amount of time and this was the first offense a credit would likely waive some or all of the fees. Most credit unions do not have the give me, give me, give me mentality.
Ben There on 2009-03-15:
So we are assuming that this could not be something as simple as the OP's second charge was batched first?
Chris721 on 2009-03-15:
Apparently it is illegal because one of the big banks was recently found liable in a class action lawsuit for the same practice and their customers were awarded restitution. How that was divided up, I do not know. I had recently read about this may be a month or so ago and do not want to say which bank because I am not 100% certain which bank it was. I would assume the bank is appealing the decision otherwise all banks would reconsider continuing this practice but, that is my opinion.
Ben There on 2009-03-15:
Why did you make the second charge if you knew the money was not in the account?
yoke on 2009-03-15:
I can not understand why people get all upset when banks charge NSF when they have already admitted they knew they did not have the money in the bank. It should not matter in which order checks/debits/credits are presented. You should always have the funds in your account to cover your debits/checks.
Ponie on 2009-03-15:
Keep better track of your finances so you won't run into a 'negative balance.' Some people simply don't know how to use debit cards without running up overdrafts. Maybe you should stick to cash. If you don't have the cash, you can't spend more than you have. I will not allow any bank to get these fees from me. If I know I don't have it, I don't buy it.
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Chase bank needs to die. I hate them! Read me!
Posted by on
I am beyond angry with this company. I have had a Chase credit card for a few years, and I carried a balance on it about two years ago. One day I noticed that my minimum payment had gone up, even though I hadn't bought anything or made a late payment. So I logged into my account and looked at my statement, and my interest had gone up to 21%! I immediately called and spoke to customer service, and they said they were sorry, but they couldn't give me my low rate back because I must have done something wrong. I had had an issue with another credit card, but had immediately resolved it with that company and that account was not changed at all. But Chase refused to give me my good rate back, even though I had never had any issues with them, and the one little issue with another company had been resolved right away. (How do they even find out these things?) I immediately transferred my balance, and left that card in zero. Earlier this year, they sent me a really good balance transfer offer, and since I am really good at paying on time, I thought it would be a good way to lower my interest and that I wouldn't have any more issues with them. But last month, my payment due date fell on a Sunday, and every time I have had a payment due on a Sunday, it actually gets credited and processed on Monday. So I logged on Sunday afternoon to make the payment, thinking it would still be on time, but I got a late fee and an interest hike. Apparently they process payments on Sunday now! So I called right away, and asked to be forgiven for that one late fee, since I had never had one before (the few times I've had them with other companies over the last 10 years, they have been forgiven). The lady refused to budge or even consider it. My payment had been late by a few hours, and she still refused. So, realizing it had been a mistake to deal with them again, I logged on October 8th, and paid off the whole remaining balance, down to zero again. A few days ago, I got an email saying I had a payment due, but I ignored it, thinking I was just getting the email because I had signed up for email notifications and it sends me emails the same time every month. The last time I had checked my account it had said $0.00! Well, I got another email, and decided I had better check it out, and I had a balance of over $50, and a late fee of $15! I reviewed my statement, and it showed my big over-$3,000 payment on October 8th, and then it shows that on that same day my account was charged $56 interest from the month before. I called customer service (who are not my favorite people) and told him my intent had been to pay my whole account off, and if this interest charge had been posted to my account on the same day that I made the huge payment, why had it not been included in the total? He said that the cycle ended on the 8th, so the charge was calculated and posted the following day. So why does it say it posted the 8th on my statement? Why did my account show me three big zeros on the 8th after I had made that payment? I have literally never been so angry in my life, and I have to admit I let him have it. I was shaking, full of adrenaline, and then couldn't sleep that night. I am trying to get out of debt, and I have never skipped payments or defaulted or gone into collections or filed bankruptcy, and this company has not shown any interest in taking care of customers who are actually trying! I would really like to spread the word about how horrid they are.
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DebtorBasher on 2008-10-31:
You got away from Chase and went back???? Man-O-Man...anyone who is lucky enough to get away from them should keep running further and further NEVER GO BACK TO CHASE!

Also, making a payment on the day it's due isn't going to get processed that day, especailly on a Sunday...some internet payments state it can take 24, 36 hours or longer for it to be applied to your account.
Anonymous on 2008-10-31:
Talk about not learning from a mistake! Wow...I swear, the more I read about credit cards and their uber-harsh policies on here, the more I want to cut mine up. I only have one, but no one can mess with you if you pay cash. They should have forgiven this person ONE time, a few hours late. What is up with that?
DebtorBasher on 2008-10-31:
That's another thing...when I worked at Chase, we were told that Chase will remove one Late fee per 12 months if the customer has been paying on time, as a courtesy. Of course we were told not to OFFER it to the customers, but give it to them if they asked us. Well...when I seen people who were just a little late on one payment and have always paid on time, by golly I TOLD them I'd remove the fee for them!

That goes for a late Mortgage payment as well.
Ponie on 2008-10-31:
'...no one can mess with you if you pay cash.' Right on, sherdy. And the way the poster robs Peter to pay Paul, I think it should be taken to heart. DB, I've been with Chase for years. That's the card I use most. Their rewards program is the most liberal of all my cards. But of course, if the due date happens to fall on a Sunday, I instruct my bank to send a check to be received on the previous Friday. Wonder if that might make a difference....
Suusan B. on 2008-10-31:
Paying your credit card on the day it is due is simply asking for trouble - - no matter which company you are dealing with. A payment being received and posted are two different things. All credit card companies will look for any reason to increase you interest rate and it is your responsibility to not give them a reason. As far as the remaining interest after you paid off your balance - - this is the interest that accrued between the time your last statement was generated and when you paid. And no - - I don't work for a bank.
Madtypist on 2008-11-01:
I do hate Chase also and have great sympathy for you. That said -- and as much as I hate to admit this -- almost ALL banks that offer great balance transfers -- especially those for the "life of loan" are counting on the fact that you will screw up somewhere. And the real predatory ones (like Chase) will impose the "Universal default" meaning if you have an issue with ANY credit card company they can raise your rate. Most banks have dropped the universal default after the Congressional investigation a few years ago (at which Chase had a star role). But I see from your post Chase still has that in its repertoire. I am also still a player in the credit card transfer game though but here are my rules that have not failed me.
1) NEVER do a transfer with a bank that uses Universal Default. [Because yes, even if your issue with your other bank is resolved, it doesn't matter. Chase probably upped your interest because the credit reporting agency they use showed that you were late with a payment with your other bank. That is really all they need.
2) Set up a bill pay program on your computer for automatic payments ONE WEEK IN ADVANCE of when the payment is due. That way you won't be easily caught when they change the date when your bill is due. I always have payment set up for the minimum payment due and then pay more if I can that month but I AT LEAST make sure the minimum will arrive in time.
3) Set up overdraft protection. I now have this with a small line of credit with Wells Fargo (I LOVE Wells Fargo). If you're not able to do that, then have the overdraft protection with a credit card. Even though this is costly if it is used, it is still cheaper than returned payment fees which will ALSO lower your credit score. These days I have a regular job but also still have my transcribing business going. One of my long-time clients misjudged his own account and a large check he wrote to me bounced and my wonderful line of credit was enough to cover it. I HATE to think of that ripple effect of all the payments I write to my various creditors would have been had I not had that.

4, 5, 6, 7 ...etc... Sell your could before you sign up for anything with Chase.

Carol [Oh, and most credit card companies will charge you interest even after you've paid off your account if you had used a balance transfer. Chase is the only one I know though that charges you interest even if your balance was just due to purchases AND you carried a balance more than one billing cycle.]
amarys05 on 2008-11-01:
When I paid my credit card bill online, it clearly states it may take up to 2 business days to update information. Just because financial business can be done online, doesn't necessarily mean that it's put through ASAP.
donadame on 2008-11-01:
Geez, don't they give at least 3 weeks to pay? Pay early, not last minute!
Camden003 on 2008-12-06:
I feel very bad that this happened to you. You have my greatest sympathies. I wish you best of luck in dealing with the Chase Monsters.
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My Chase Debit Card Nightmare - Unbelievably Awful Customer Service
Posted by on
I tried to buy a plane ticket online for $280 at Orbitz.com, but I received an error message because I had entered the wrong security code. I entered the correct security code and clicked "purchase" -- this time, the charge was declined. I had plenty of money in the bank to cover the cost of the ticket, so I called Chase to find out what was happening.

Chase explained that I had a $400/day expenditure limit on my debit card (which, by the way, I was not told about until AFTER I had opened my account) and that I had already spent $280 that day (therefore, my attempt to buy a ticket for $280 was being declined because it put me over my daily limit).

I explained to Chase that I had NOT spent $280, but rather that I had TRIED to purchase a ticket for $280, and that I first received an error message and then received a decline message. They insisted that my account had been charged $280 by Orbitz, despite my assurances that I had no plane ticket to show for the alleged $280 charge.

Chase then told me what I had to do to fix the problem: call Orbitz and have them fax to Chase a confirmation that Orbitz had in fact NOT charged me $280. After that, I was assured that the charge would be removed from my account and that I'd be free to buy my ticket.

I called Orbitz and they called Chase to inform them that I had not purchased and ticket and that Orbitz had not charged my account. But that wasn't good enough - Chase insisted on a fax, so Orbitz sent it. 6 hours later, the credit appeared on my Chase account, and I went back to Orbitz to buy a ticket. As I'm sure you've guessed by now, no dice -- Declined Again!

I called Chase again, and asked why the charge was being declined. The customer service representative told me that everything was fine with my account, so that if the charge for the ticket was being declined, the problem must be with Orbitz's "machine". I refused to accept that answer (a readily transparent attempt to simply get rid of me) and after the Chase representative realized that excuse wasn't going to work, she told me that, actually, the reason the charge was being declined was that I had already spent $280 that day.

I directed her attention to the $280 credit and explained the entire situation (repeatedly) to the Chase customer service person, but she simply kept insisting that I had already been charged $280 from Orbitz that day and so my attempt to purchase another ticket was being declined because it put me over my daily spending limit. This, despite the fact that I had spent the time to contact Orbitz and have them send Chase the requested fax, which Chase had previously assured me would take care of the problem.

Long story short, after spending over an hour on the phone (most of the time on hold, waiting to speak with a supervisor) Chase simply refused to solve the problem, which was clearly on their end. In the process, Chase customer service persistently made assertions that they knew to be untrue, fed me excuse after excuse in an obvious attempt to simply get me off the phone, and in general behaved like a gang of robots who couldn't possibly care less about remedying the problems that Chase had created for me.

Chase Manhattan Customer Service Is Horrible. Absolutely, Undeniably Horrible. I deeply regret switching from Bank of America to Chase, and I advise others to stay away from Chase bank.
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DebtorBasher on 2008-10-05:
"...customer service persistently made assertions that they knew to be untrue, fed me excuse after excuse in an obvious attempt to simply get me off the phone..."

I worked at Chase and that's what we were told, "Just tell them anything to get them off the phone and get onto the next call"...That's why I quit.

Thanks for your review...I always tell people get as far away from anything with the "Chase" name on it.
Anonymous on 2008-10-05:
As with any bank, it doesn't matter if you withdraw $280 then deposit $280 minutes (or in your case hours later) the $280 still goes against your $400 max daily withdraw limit.
If you are going to use you debit/check card online, having that spending limit is a good thing. With the lack of security for customers numbers that most sites and banks have, your account could easily be wiped clean by any thief.
If you find the need to spend more you should upgrade your account.
Ponie on 2008-10-06:
Why did you use a debit card rather than a credit card? I agree with Robf. Those limits were put there for your protection. Using a credit card would have prevented this problem.

DB, I've had a Chase (credit) card for years with no problems, plus I make money each time I use it. I think your last statement should read: 'anything with debit card on it.' IMHO, I think debit cards create more problems than credit cards and except for my friendly Dollar Tree store, can be used anywhre.
DebtorBasher on 2008-10-06:
I use my card as a debit 90% of the time. It's actually a debit card from my checking account but can be used as a debit or credit.

Good to hear you haven't had any problems with your Chase card...but being that I worked there, I stand by my statement and I don't recommend Chase to anyone but my enemies...all two of them...LOL!
Anonymous on 2008-10-06:
Really, DB? I don't have a Chase card but I've been bombarded with offers from them for quite a while. It seems like ignoring their offers just creates more. I guess I'll definitely never open one of those envelopes now.
DebtorBasher on 2008-10-06:
I just got an offer in the mail on Saturday, I Shredded the entire offer in the unopened envelope it came in.
DigitalCommando on 2008-10-06:
I have not heard of a single credit union closing or about to be closed. Can't say the same about those big safe banks can we. Credit union management are real people who makes decisions based on real life situations and are not motivated by external pressures from the stock markets or greedy CEO overlords.
yoke on 2008-10-06:
MY CU just opened up another branch!
lobo65 on 2008-10-06:
Digital Commando is right. Credit Unions are the way to go. I have a gold card with USAA that has a 5% interest rate. Of course my credit is impeccable though.
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Chase Bank Employees Even Hate Chase - Chase Branch Manager Can be Your Ally or Worst Enemy-Chase Employees Share Your Insight.
Posted by on
NATIONWIDE -- The branch managers turnover rapidly at my Chase branch. It seems they last about 3 months and they are gone. I have developed a personal relationship with several ex-managers because you never know when you might need them to help you, especially with the "NSF" issues so many posters seem to encounter with this bank.

You would be amazed to know how many employees and branch managers hate Chase because of how Chase conducts business and exploits their customers. Many of the Chase employees will not maintain personal accounts with Chase because they see what Chase does to their customers and how Chase treats them. Chase micro-manages their branch managers and require them to work 6 days a week. They are also required to work a 50 to 60 hour week with 55 hours being the average so no wonder they leave.

The branch manager is your best friend in most cases. They will happily reverse your "junk fees" better known as bank fees and NSF fees, as they call them, because they have a real ethical problem with how Chase robs their accountholders. The branch managers reverse fees out of spite and rebellion against Chase. You will get a branch manager occasionally who is anal and will not budge on fees or reverse them so the only choice you have is to move your account to another branch or close the account(s) with Chase. You can go to another Chase branch and explain to the branch manager what you encountered and if the manager has ethics, he/she will reverse your fee(s) and ask you to move your accounts to his branch and let him take care of you. On the other hand, you may get another anal manager who will tell you that he can't do anything for you so go try another branch until you find a manager who wants to help you. You can also test your manager's credibility and ethics by intentionally overdrafting the account with one item and then go to the bank once you get the overdraft notice and see what they do for you. You can have only $10 in your account. Go buy $10.02 worth of gas with your debit/credit card because they will only authorize $1. Your account will now be overdrawn when the charge posts tonight or the next night. Wait till the charge posts and then resume normal activity with your checking account. Once you get the overdraft notice, go to the branch and start with the consumer banker employees first and see how they react to your situation. If you do not get anywhere with them, then ask to see the branch manager and see how the branch manager reacts. Act like you are a regular consumer and tell the manager you made an honest mistake and you had less money in your account then you thought and the pump did not stop in time and ask him "Shouldn't the pump have stopped at $10 and not approved anymore". Further ask the manager "Do you really think it is fair to assess me $33 because of a .02 cent overdraft" and see what he says. If the manager reverses your fee then praise him and thank him for doing it and tell him that he is a man of honor and finally tell him how you have just performed a mystery shop and how you intentionally overdrafted your account so you could see how Chase would handle the NSF fee and treat me as a customer. In the event he will not reverse the fee, then tell him how you have performed a mystery shop and intentionally overdrew the account so you could see how Chase treats their customers and it is obvious to you that Chase does not value or care about their customers so you will take your business elsewhere. Chase's marketing slogan is "The right relationship is everything". Make them stand behind it as it appears from internet wide posts that the only "right relationship" to Chase is a relationship where Chase can rob and exploit you.
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Anonymous on 2006-04-19:
Dhater wrote: "You can also test your manager's credibility and ethics by intentionally overdrafting the account with one item and then go to the bank once you get the overdraft notice and see how they do for you."
LOL! How about I put a hot poker in my eye and see if it burns me. Oh yeah and then how about I rob a bank to test our legal system. Get real and please tell me you are kidding.

viperpa33s on 2006-04-19:
amaniR:lol, good one. Better watch out, you will be turned into a cc conspirator just like me and JayD are.
Discoverhater on 2006-04-19:
amaniR - Have you ever heard of "Mystery Shopper's"? Believe it or not, this is what they actually do because the bank want to make sure the branch managers are not being "too liberal with the customers and refunding money that will reduce their billion down profit bottom line." It's called micro-management of the bank employees and managers and exploitation of the consumer. There is actually a large bank in the Dallas, TX area that has employed this tactic as I know someone who actually performed a mystery shop for this bank but because the bank does not want their employees to know they do this I cannot disclose the bank name.
DebtorBasher on 2006-04-19:
Although I agree with what you've posted about the way Chase operates...I've heard the same from some of their employees...I have to disagree with the "mystery shopper" idea. Purposely overdrafting a checking account is against the law...it's the same as purposely writing bad checks...Mystery shoppers are hired by the company itself (a mystery shopper for Chase would be hired by Chase to see how their employees are with the customers), You are not a mystery shopper hired by Chase, so, you wouldn't pull much weight with that one, in the end, you are just an unhappy customer.
Discoverhater on 2006-04-19:
DebtorBasher - I agree with you. My mystery shop idea was only a real life idea that we can used to test the real "integrity" of a national bank giant like Chase. Banks in general will tell you anything to get your money and they will outright lie to you to close a deal. Once they get you in their "shark jaws" then you are trapped because you took the bait. This is what the big banks want because now they can suck your money out of you.

How else can we really trust what a bank tells us and/or represents to us verbally or in writing since they intentionally misrepresent their products and use bait and switch tactics to steal your money. Do you have any better ideas on how we can really see how our specific bank branch will handle issues with your accounts. You can go to 5 different Chase branches and get 5 different answers, depending on how loyal the employees are to Chase and/or their customers. I am open to ideas and only tried to offer a suggestion to people so they can really put their banks to the integrity test since you can't believe anything they tell you or disclose to you in writing because they "can amend and/or change the terms anytime they want" and they do this in their favor once they have you trapped.

P.S. - Do you really think a bank is going to turn you in and have your arrested for fraud because you overdrew your account? NO WAY. They make too much money from NSF fee's and banks would shoot themselves in the foot if they did this. The Banks pay the NSF items to collect fees and they manipulate the sort order so the highest items are paid first and the lowest items therefore generate the most NSF fees for the banks.
Anonymous on 2006-04-20:
Dhater said: "Do you really think a bank is going to turn you in and have your arrested for fraud because you overdrew your account? "
It is illegal to intentionally spend more than is your account my friend. Maybe you won't go to jail for "Mystery Check Kiting" but why would you even consider (much less advise anyone else) to do such a boneheaded thing?
DebtorBasher on 2006-04-20:
I was also told by an employer, that if someone calls in to do a payment over the phone, and it is for a large sum of money (to pay off a credit card balance, or whatever), they are told to have the customers make the payment with two or three smaller amounts of checks, than one check for a larger sum of money. Why? Because they charge a check fee for each check done over the phone...and...if the checks are post dated and the customer has to cancel the payment for any reason (funds not available), Chase will tell the customer they have to put a stop payment on the check through their bank...costing again, a fee for each check cancelled which will discourage them from canceling in the future. (If you try to cancel BEFORE the check date, Chase can cancel it right out from their computer and it wouldn't cost anything).
leonkitty on 2007-04-28:
As someone who has worked in credit cards I can share w/ you it is not the bank, but the gas station, that is requesting only the 1.00 auth. If you know you only have 10.00 in your account why spend more? As to the .02 cent overdraft, if it really is a "once in a blue moon" mistake any branch manager will probably reverse the charge. What's missing is how many times have you overdrafted etc in the past.
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